Blackhawks 2022-23 SEASON THREAD

[Raskolnikov]

Is there more value to grab a late first from a contender now or play the long game and ask for the contenders 2024/2025 first and hope they have fallen off? Regardless, the Hawks have to make hay with their own picks which will be lottery picks for the foreseeable future. What they get for Kane or Toews is nice, but those assets will take a few years to develop unlike the Hawks’ pick which will likely end up on the NHL roster from day 1.

In our case we should probably hunt for 2025 firsts with Kane/toews

 

[Raskolnikov]

I'd like to know why team "identity" is even a topic when you are talking about a team where probably close to 90% of the current roster won't even be here in the next 2 years.

FYI, for those of you who are wondering if this current regime is competent or not.....consider this.....while KD's been with the organization for quite awhile, he's only worked and learned from one GM over that time.

Stan Bowman

I've questioned hiring "in house" for a total rebuild from day 1. That hasn't changed.

That’s a great point about his tutelage.

 

[Bigfoot]

Nah, Dach was a wasted draft pick and deserved to go. There were two defenseman who should have been taken ahead of him and if Dach was the pick he never should have been playing in the NHL right out the draft.

There were times when Dach looked like a stud, and then times when he looked like the worst player on the ice. That's development. That's rushing a 18 year old to play against men.

He has 70% o-zone starts and is still producing at Dachian levels with Caufield on his wing. He is what he is because of poor development

I agree Dach was rushed. I wanted Byram, it would have made too much sense to draft him. Have him learn from Keith and pass the torch. Would have been our luck moving number 1 d, and hopefully we don’t make the trade for Jones. What could have been

 

[Bigfoot]

I'd like to know why team "identity" is even a topic when you are talking about a team where probably close to 90% of the current roster won't even be here in the next 2 years.

FYI, for those of you who are wondering if this current regime is competent or not.....consider this.....while KD's been with the organization for quite awhile, he's only worked and learned from one GM over that time.

Stan Bowman

I've questioned hiring "in house" for a total rebuild from day 1. That hasn't changed.

Agree diehard. The move should have been bring in someone from outside maybe the Carolina guy. I’m not sure how many times it has worked when you hire from within

 

[hawkinmontreal]

I'd like to know why team "identity" is even a topic when you are talking about a team where probably close to 90% of the current roster won't even be here in the next 2 years.

FYI, for those of you who are wondering if this current regime is competent or not.....consider this.....while KD's been with the organization for quite awhile, he's only worked and learned from one GM over that time.

Stan Bowman

I've questioned hiring "in house" for a total rebuild from day 1. That hasn't changed.

You had to go and mention Blowman‘s name Diehard, it was peaceful not seeing that name. ?

 

[Probie2429]

There's more value in late first this year. This draft is 50 players deep in borderline good/great future NHL talent compared to the next two drafts which are top heavy in the top five.

No team is going to trade the Hawks draft picks that aren't lottery protected. So trying to accumulate lottery picks without giving up value isn't going to happen. If Cat, a 40 goal NHL scorer, returns a lottery pick and only one at that when many fans were saying the Hawks could bilk out multiple first rounders for the guy, that alone tells you just how much value a lottery pick has in this day.

Projecting two years from now as not a deep draft is kind of silly. We are talking 16-17 year olds. Lots can happen between then and now.

Cat only returned one pick because he is getting paid 9 million in salary this year and then needs a new contract. I’m surprised KD was able to get a first at all. This is why Hagel returned more on paper due to him being cost-controlled.

Teams will trade lottery picks with protections. It doesn’t just have to a lottery pick. Plenty of examples where only top 2 protected for example.

 

[Probie2429]

In our case we should probably hunt for 2025 firsts with Kane/toews

I think that would be smart. A 2025 first is more or less a 3rd this year based on pick value probably. Hawks will need bodies more than picks based on how many they already have in 23 and 24. Target a better prospect that can play now on the NHL roster and then get the future first while giving up some protection (top 2 or 3 perhaps).

 

[Raskolnikov]

I think that would be smart. A 2025 first is more or less a 3rd this year based on pick value probably. Hawks will need bodies more than picks based on how many they already have in 23 and 24. Target a better prospect that can play now on the NHL roster and then get the future first while giving up some protection (top 2 or 3 perhaps).

And again, a few future picks may be better value than 1 or 2 now.

At this point defer everything if it’s a better quality pick.

The teams see the 2023 draft already and will be greedy about the top 45.

I think we ask for that 2023 first as starting place just so they easily throw in goodies to “settle” for 2025.

 

[KBIB]

Projecting two years from now as not a deep draft is kind of silly. We are talking 16-17 year olds. Lots can happen between then and now.

Projecting drafts two years from now compared to next year's draft, which is considered the deepest draft in decades isn't that far out the loop.

The 23 draft has been speculated on for the last three years. Bedard, Benson, and Michkov we're known entities for awhile now. Sure alot can happen, but the template is and has been there for years. When most pundits are saying "deep draft" it's elite high end talent they are looking at. I could have told you two years ago the 23 draft was deep when Zach Benson, who was considered a can't miss kid, was barely speculated to be a top ten pick.

Cat only returned one pick because he is getting paid 9 million in salary this year and then needs a new contract. I’m surprised KD was able to get a first at all. This is why Hagel returned more on paper due to him being cost-controlled.

Debrincat is a proven 40 goal scorer in the NHL. Those don't grow on trees and to keep them you gotta pay for them. It's like saying McDavid has no value since his contract is 10 million plus when he's in his final year.

Lottery picks are the biggest high end commodity in the NHL currently with most teams fighting the cap.

Teams will trade lottery picks with protections. It doesn’t just have to a lottery pick. Plenty of examples where only top 2 protected for example.

And there's examples like the Hagel trade where the bolts completely castrated the Hawks chances of getting a lottery pick off them.

The good news is that 23 pick is going to net a solid player even if it's in the late 20's.

 

[KBIB]

And for the record, I'm not buying into the Kool aid that KD and Maciver know what they're doing until there's actual results to back them up.

Right now it still looks like Blowman and Kelly are running this team and until there's a visible positive step in this rebuild I can get behind I'm not saying anything positive about the direction of this team other then they've taken steps so players don't get assaulted by video coaches any more.

They could have gotten a haul for Kane on draft day- didn't happen

They could trade Toews right now while he's playing at a high level- not happening

They could bring Reichel up for a long look- nope

 

[MassHavoc]

They.... they're winning? Forgot what that felt like

 

[Probie2429]

And for the record, I'm not buying into the Kool aid that KD and Maciver know what they're doing until there's actual results to back them up.

Right now it still looks like Blowman and Kelly are running this team and until there's a visible positive step in this rebuild I can get behind I'm not saying anything positive about the direction of this team other then they've taken steps so players don't get assaulted by video coaches any more.

They could have gotten a haul for Kane on draft day- didn't happen

They could trade Toews right now while he's playing at a high level- not happening

They could bring Reichel up for a long look- nope

Only Kane or Toews can be traded when they want to be if ever.

 

[LordKOTL]

I don’t foresee the defense or the rebuild will take that long with Jones and Korchinski.

That alters my calculus on Dach and Cat, but my issue with Dach is he was not strong. He was big but jelly. Vets loved to knock him about and it prevented him from asserting his skills.

He will likely become strong and be better than what we got for him. A winning style player and extremely valuable to somebodies forecheck line, certainly has potential to be a great pairing guy who is synergistic with lesser guys who have certain skills and attributes.

Jones, Korch, and who else? They still need at least one other competant piece on D, 2 would be better. Who else?

I'd like to know why team "identity" is even a topic when you are talking about a team where probably close to 90% of the current roster won't even be here in the next 2 years.

FYI, for those of you who are wondering if this current regime is competent or not.....consider this.....while KD's been with the organization for quite awhile, he's only worked and learned from one GM over that time.

Stan Bowman

I've questioned hiring "in house" for a total rebuild from day 1. That hasn't changed.

Your point is well taken, but also consider that KD had a front row seat to Bowman the Beancounter 's clusterfuckery, and possibly knew he was doing it wrong and didn't know jack or shit. It wouldn't be the 1st time someone knew their boss was incompetent, lucked into the position via nepotism, and learns from the previous gen's mistakes.

Or, you could be right.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Jones, Korch, and who else? They still need at least one other competant piece on D, 2 would be better. Who else?

Your point is well taken, but also consider that KD had a front row seat to Bowman the Beancounter 's clusterfuckery, and possibly knew he was doing it wrong and didn't know jack or shit. It wouldn't be the 1st time someone knew their boss was incompetent, lucked into the position via nepotism, and learns from the previous gen's mistakes.

Or, you could be right.

On the first count, I’m rather high on Kaiser. Korchinski, Jones.

Then you got Nolan Allen.
Some high draft picks in the near future.

I see Vlasic becoming a hometown kid third liner commanding respect when necessary, chipping in a few solid minutes, and developing slowly into a top notch PK specialist.

It was when I found out about Kaiser I turned the corner to positivity about the potential near future defense.

Welcome your thoughts on him and Nolan Allen.
Useless as back titty implants? Too young to say how man muscle will play (Those two sentences make me uncomfortable so close together)?

Honorable mentions to Phillip Roos and Regula.

But even if Jones makes further free agency prohibitive,

My current view is not that it’s done…but it CAN be done with another hit or two with this foundation and favorable development.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Also…

Hell yeah.
Maybe we won’t be the worst of all time until next year, maybe not at all if Bedard.

Good job getting it done tonight. (Fingers still crossed)

 

[ytsejam]

Hawks winning but plenty of time to blow it!
Rawr!

 

[LordKOTL]

On the first count, I’m rather high on Kaiser. Korchinski, Jones.

Then you got Nolan Allen.
Some high draft picks in the near future.

I see Vlasic becoming a hometown kid third liner commanding respect when necessary, chipping in a few solid minutes, and developing slowly into a top notch PK specialist.

It was when I found out about Kaiser I turned the corner to positivity about the potential near future defense.

Welcome your thoughts on him and Nolan Allen.
Useless as back titty implants? Too young to say how man muscle will play (Those two sentences make me uncomfortable so close together)?

Honorable mentions to Phillip Roos and Regula.

But even if Jones makes further free agency prohibitive,

My current view is not that it’s done…but it CAN be done with another hit or two with this foundation and favorable development.

Respectfully, a lot of what you say hinges on proper development. That's never a given. Look at Dach. Look at Barker.

If the previous core was any indication, you have to as who the analogues are. Seth Jones is like a Campbell. Okay, then who is Keith? Seabrook? Hjammer? No one in out current lineup is close. Of the prospecs...Korch?

I like your optimism, don't get me wrong, but I think we need more. If guys develop than sure; it took a bit for Keith, but beyond Korch (potentially) and Jones (who might end up like Aucoin when all's said and done), there not much. This might take a bit...but if I'm wrong and the current prospects step up I'll gladly eat crow.


That being said, happy Chaunukkwanzaramamass everyone!

 

[ytsejam]

Bah!
Gotta win a few here and there, right?

 

[Raskolnikov]

Bah!
Gotta win a few here and there, right?

Had to win this one and avoid staining streaks.

 

[Raskolnikov]

I like the Korchinski to Seabrook analogy.
Jones to E.Kaarlson might have to happen more so than Campbell for us to compete because…

Kaiser to Keith or anyone to Keith is a bit wishful.

But take heart in this my young pessimist, if we get to the point you are just missing the Keith…maybe you can trade for the Erik Kaarlson or that last piece, maybe it comes with 2025 draft pick we get for Kane…

But Hedman…Kaarlson…

In recent years that piece can be acquired in the final stage.