Blackhawks 2022-23 SEASON THREAD

[LordKOTL]

Niemi posted a .912 in the '10 regular season and a .910 in the '10 playoffs. Those are decidedly average numbers, even though I will give it that Niemi won the Sharks series.

Contrast to Crawford's .926/.932 and his .924/.924 in 13 and 15, respectively. Those are the numbers of a great goaltender.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Niemi posted a .912 in the '10 regular season and a .910 in the '10 playoffs. Those are decidedly average numbers, even though I will give it that Niemi won the Sharks series.

Contrast to Crawford's .926/.932 and his .924/.924 in 13 and 15, respectively. Those are the numbers of a great goaltender.

Let's agree to never let talking heads forget those numbers occurred in a suicidal system of odd man rushes both for and against created by the all-time great Q.

To me it's the fit that brought us glory, as both Keith and Crow neutralized odd man rushes with rare wizardry. It was Crows greatest strength, and one of Keith's many gifts.

 

[LordKOTL]

Lord this is a great post, however one thing that needs to be considered, the Hawks have not been very successful in the last few years at the draft, where as in 2002- Mike Smith was at the helm and he had a lot to do with the Hawks great picks and the success they endured, but all those picks dont amount to anything if Pat Kane and Toews aren’t drafted. This years pick is extremely important as it sets a precedent for the Hawks moving forward. With the amount of cap room and picks Hawks should not have to wait another 3 years to make there mark. 2025 draft should be used to build a stronger team, added pieces per say. Drafting a guy like Fantilli would be spectacular, the team needs its next young leader to take place, nothing again Benson(he will be a good player) but not on a team that is screaming for talent, I feel he would turn into a Kyle Calder or Bell or Arnason which didn’t amount to anything. If Michkov is there and the top 3 have been picked when it’s time for the Hawks to draft, I would take a swing at him even with all the issues surrounding him, because after him there is nothing saying that picks 5 and up are not just supplementary players for teams that already have some sort of talent unlike the Hawks who have zero.

We don't know what last year's draft is, yet. It could be a good one, or could be a bust. A lot hinges on Korch.

Also, consider the opposite: if Kane and Toews were drafted, but Keith and Seabrook weren't. No cups, either.

In my estimation, the long-development guys have to get here first, like Keith and Seabrook were. But, given how many picks we got over the next few seasons, hopefully by 2025 we are filling in. But, we can't rush guys like Korchinski. Plus, as the rags just proved, you can't UFA your way to a cup.

This pick is important, don't get me wrong, but shit happens. The more chances we have, the better.

Let's agree to never let talking heads forget those numbers occurred in a suicidal system of odd man rushes both for and against created by the all-time great Q.

To me it's the fit that brought us glory, as both Keith and Crow neutralized odd man rushes with rare wizardry. It was Crows greatest strength, and one of Keith's many gifts.

Dr. Craw also was outstanding positionally. He never needed to make many flashy saves because he was in position to make easy ones most of the time. Once he abandoned the "absorb the puck" and did the "defect the puck" style, his numbers got a lot better.

Keith was awesome all around, but we also can't forget Hjammer. He was just as effective in the backend.

Don't get me wrong though. Niemi was good. But IMHO Crawford was an echelon above. Maybe not Thomas or Hašek, but I don't think Niemi puts up the same numbers in 2013, and probably doesn't win the cup in 2015... Especially goose egging Tampa.

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1655731414153797632

 

[Granada]

Remember when half this forum was freaking out wanting Davidson's head a month ago? Lol.

 

[ytsejam]

I read back through some of the early pages of this thread.
Lots of us were in for tank from day 1.
Somehow everything worked out.
I've only been listening to games from work for last 2 years because of my 3-11pm hours.
I might have to bid on a day shift job so I can watch hockey again.

 

[Granada]

Athanasiou re-signed for 2 years at 4.25 per. 1.25 and 1 year increase over his last contract. I guess this is fair -- he was a 40 point guy last year....albeit a -29, lol.

 

[LordKOTL]

To be fair though, Philip, Guttman, Bjork, and Robinson were the only non-negative players.

 

[Granada]

To be fair though, Philip, Guttman, Bjork, and Robinson were the only non-negative players.

Yeah but they weren't regular players. Even so, I was just pointing out the irony of a -29 player getting a raise. I know +/- is a flawed stat, and last year's team as a whole was garbage, but still.

 

[MassHavoc]

Yeah but they weren't regular players. Even so, I was just pointing out the irony of a -29 player getting a raise. I know +/- is a flawed stat, and last year's team as a whole was garbage, but still.

I get what you are saying but the Hawks were -97 goal differential. It's near impossible for any regular player playing significant time to be a positive. McCabe and Murphy probably the best on the year which got McCabe traded and Murphy under used I assume.

 

[KBIB]

Remember when half this forum was freaking out wanting Davidson's head a month ago? Lol.

Well, to be fair, he lucked into Bedard by icing one of the worst teams ever and on par with the shit the Pens were doing the year Mario was coming out.

It takes very little skill wiping an entire team and trading away young talent for draft picks.

What takes skill, is using those draft picks and creating a Cup winner with them. And the jury is still out if he can do that.

The way he handled Reichel all year is a red flag. Promoting draft picks on social media is another red flag. Drafting Rinzel with a first rounder who might be five years away from the NHL is a other one.

You got Bedard, Davidson better start making the right moves because now that five year rebuild suddenly turned into a three year one because you lucked into a generational talent and wasting that generational talents early years is going to get him fired quick.

 

[LordKOTL]

Yeah but they weren't regular players. Even so, I was just pointing out the irony of a -29 player getting a raise. I know +/- is a flawed stat, and last year's team as a whole was garbage, but still.

I get that, and @MassHavoc had the point I was trying to make. Yeah, +/- is flawed and not perfect, but the only non-negative players were ones that were not regulars. Granted, to your point he was like 4th or 5th worst on the team in +/-.

I can live with Happy-to-see-you's raise, especially since it helps with the cap floor situation. We could have done far worse giving a guy a raise. Plus, his deal is more movable than, say, Murphy's. At worst we're stuck with him for 2 years.

Well, to be fair, he lucked into Bedard by icing one of the worst teams ever and on par with the shit the Pens were doing the year Mario was coming out.

It takes very little skill wiping an entire team and trading away young talent for draft picks.

What takes skill, is using those draft picks and creating a Cup winner with them. And the jury is still out if he can do that.

The way he handled Reichel all year is a red flag. Promoting draft picks on social media is another red flag. Drafting Rinzel with a first rounder who might be five years away from the NHL is a other one.

You got Bedard, Davidson better start making the right moves because now that five year rebuild suddenly turned into a three year one because you lucked into a generational talent and wasting that generational talents early years is going to get him fired quick.

That's the real problem. Can KD build a winner? We don't know.

What we (I) do know is that he has so far shown that he's much better than Bowman in that respect. Bowman couldn't even start the teardown properly. At best KD does his job well and builds a contender. At worst he's a step-up from Bowman that get fired for stagnating the rebuild too soon and we bring someone else in.

 

[Granada]

Well, to be fair, he lucked into Bedard by icing one of the worst teams ever and on par with the shit the Pens were doing the year Mario was coming out.

It takes very little skill wiping an entire team and trading away young talent for draft picks.

What takes skill, is using those draft picks and creating a Cup winner with them. And the jury is still out if he can do that.

The way he handled Reichel all year is a red flag. Promoting draft picks on social media is another red flag. Drafting Rinzel with a first rounder who might be five years away from the NHL is a other one.

You got Bedard, Davidson better start making the right moves because now that five year rebuild suddenly turned into a three year one because you lucked into a generational talent and wasting that generational talents early years is going to get him fired quick.

I disagree with the characterization that he "lucked" into Bedard. He iced one of the worst teams ever specifically to get Bedard, which he did. That's not luck, that was the plan. Sure, the team didn't finish with the absolute worst record, but nevertheless, the initial goal (Bedard) was achieved all the same. I said it before: not every last-place team gets the 1st pick. He put the Hawks in the position to get him, and they did.

Also, I wouldn't say it takes zero skill to wipe an entire team and replenish with picks. A GM could very easily make moves that can damage a team long term, even if all he's doing is a tear down. Or fail to move guys he should (i.e. Kane), etc.

Sure, we don't know his draft record yet, but so far, Davidson has done the right thing. I can't say I object to anything he's done since assuming the role. At least not yet.

 

[LordKOTL]

I disagree with the characterization that he "lucked" into Bedard. He iced one of the worst teams ever specifically to get Bedard, which he did. That's not luck, that was the plan. Sure, the team didn't finish with the absolute worst record, but nevertheless, the initial goal (Bedard) was achieved all the same. I said it before: not every last-place team gets the 1st pick. He put the Hawks in the position to get him, and they did.

Also, I wouldn't say it takes zero skill to wipe an entire team and replenish with picks. A GM could very easily make moves that can damage a team long term, even if all he's doing is a tear down. Or fail to move guys he should (i.e. Kane), etc.

Sure, we don't know his draft record yet, but so far, Davidson has done the right thing. I can't say I object to anything he's done since assuming the role. At least not yet.

I get what both you and @KBIB are both saying. To KBIB's point, we did get lucky. I was expecting 3rd. I knew that knowing my luck we might get 5th, but I do feel lady luck played in our favor to actually win the lotto...not that I'm complaining

To your point, I do agree, it was by design (and that the last place team doesn't necessarily get the top pick; he did put us in a position to get it) and yes, it is possible to completely fukkor a team over in tanking. You want the team to be bad, but you also want to minimize the amount of long-term contracts which will prevent the new guys from signing, as well as ensuring as many players not nailed down contribute the the rebuild.

Could KD have done better? Maybe. I was not in those meetings so I have no clue what wend down. I don't know if KD really pussyfooted around Toews and Kane enough which prevented him from moving them from better assets, or whether or not Toews and Kane played matters so that KD's hands were tied. But like I said in my previous post I think KD's done a better job so far than his predecessor did. That's just step 1 though. He's got a handful of guys who show promise and has a chance to draft a generational player (and if not, I expect the news of his firing to come before Anaheim takes pick #2). Can he take the next, or subsequent steps? We don't know yet. However, he'd gotten us farther than Bowman has in terms of a rebuild. He could still fail, but he's done better than his predecessor.

 

[MassHavoc]

Well, to be fair, he lucked into Bedard by icing one of the worst teams ever and on par with the shit the Pens were doing the year Mario was coming out.

It takes very little skill wiping an entire team and trading away young talent for draft picks.

What takes skill, is using those draft picks and creating a Cup winner with them. And the jury is still out if he can do that.

The way he handled Reichel all year is a red flag. Promoting draft picks on social media is another red flag. Drafting Rinzel with a first rounder who might be five years away from the NHL is a other one.

You got Bedard, Davidson better start making the right moves because now that five year rebuild suddenly turned into a three year one because you lucked into a generational talent and wasting that generational talents early years is going to get him fired quick.

I don't disagree with much of this, but I will say the bolded I do think is not as simple as it sounds. Sure it's easy to do, but it still has to be done in a very strategic way. You can't cut too deep or go to void because you can create a hole you never get out of no matter how many draft picks you have, The young talent has to have at least some base or foundation to come into, otherwise they'll going to be looked upon to carry themselves. That then requires a much much higher level of hitting on draft picks than is normal. It can be done of course. But draft picks are going to be much more successful coming into a situation where they can thrive instead of just keeping their head above water.

Also, to be fair to posters, a lot of the apprehension around here about Davidson is that he still isn't a clean break from the previous regime and the stigma of that front office.

 

[MassHavoc]

I disagree with the characterization that he "lucked" into Bedard. He iced one of the worst teams ever specifically to get Bedard, which he did. That's not luck, that was the plan. Sure, the team didn't finish with the absolute worst record, but nevertheless, the initial goal (Bedard) was achieved all the same. I said it before: not every last-place team gets the 1st pick. He put the Hawks in the position to get him, and they did.

Also, I wouldn't say it takes zero skill to wipe an entire team and replenish with picks. A GM could very easily make moves that can damage a team long term, even if all he's doing is a tear down. Or fail to move guys he should (i.e. Kane), etc.

Sure, we don't know his draft record yet, but so far, Davidson has done the right thing. I can't say I object to anything he's done since assuming the role. At least not yet.

Just semantics here for sure, in that I think you are correct that he didn't "luck" into him but he definitely got lucky to get him. Lucked into him would have been a team trying to make the playoffs finishing poorly and inline for the 11th pick some how pulling the lucky ball and getting 1. He got lucky because the plan was all along the worst record in the league, they were setup perfectly for that, and yet still failed to achieve the goal they set out for. And yet, still was lucky enough to jump 2 teams into first. Although if you talk to reddit about this, it wasn't luck at all and the league is fixed.

 

[KBIB]

I don't disagree with much of this, but I will say the bolded I do think is not as simple as it sounds. Sure it's easy to do, but it still has to be done in a very strategic way. You can't cut too deep or go to void because you can create a hole you never get out of no matter how many draft picks you have, The young talent has to have at least some base or foundation to come into, otherwise they'll going to be looked upon to carry themselves. That then requires a much much higher level of hitting on draft picks than is normal. It can be done of course. But draft picks are going to be much more successful coming into a situation where they can thrive instead of just keeping their head above water.

Also, to be fair to posters, a lot of the apprehension around here about Davidson is that he still isn't a clean break from the previous regime and the stigma of that front office.

Well, I'm looking at it from the perspective that trading away Hagel, Cat, and to a lesser extent, Dach pretty much ruined this team into the dumpster and now that he has the golden child, those draft picks he accumulated have to hit and hit quickly.

Let's face it, he can't just shit all over the elc years of Bedards contract because if he did, it's nothing but waste. Sure, next year is going to be bad, but there has to be some, if not alot, of improvement in Bedards year two.

If Bedard is scoring sixty goals a year in his second year and the Hawks are still picking top three Davidson is getting fired. If Davidson is keeping kids out of the NHL, like Reichel, who have nothing left to prove in weaker leagues and he's still drafting projects who need time in said leagues Rocky is drop kicking him out the door.

Point being, this draft is make or break. Whatever idea or fantasy the guy wanted to create, with drafting surpluses then waiting on them to develop suddenly got shot into the sun the second they flipped that card over that said the Hawks won the lottery. This kids first contract will be one of the highest in the league knock on wood and you have to anticipate that and do your due diligence and get a team around him.

 

[MassHavoc]

Well, I'm looking at it from the perspective that trading away Hagel, Cat, and to a lesser extent, Dach pretty much ruined this team into the dumpster and now that he has the golden child, those draft picks he accumulated have to hit and hit quickly.

Let's face it, he can't just shit all over the elc years of Bedards contract because if he did, it's nothing but waste. Sure, next year is going to be bad, but there has to be some, if not alot, of improvement in Bedards year two.

If Bedard is scoring sixty goals a year in his second year and the Hawks are still picking top three Davidson is getting fired. If Davidson is keeping kids out of the NHL, like Reichel, who have nothing left to prove in weaker leagues and he's still drafting projects who need time in said leagues Rocky is drop kicking him out the door.

Point being, this draft is make or break. Whatever idea or fantasy the guy wanted to create, with drafting surpluses then waiting on them to develop suddenly got shot into the sun the second they flipped that card over that said the Hawks won the lottery. This kids first contract will be one of the highest in the league knock on wood and you have to anticipate that and do your due diligence and get a team around him.

But this is kind of what I mean. You hit on it directly in the bold above, hitting on Bedard accellarated the control fall of the rebuild. What was probably a 3-5 complete ground up where you're icing an ice hogs team, is not probably a 2-3 where you have to do something more substantial sooner to get talent around these kids before you ruin them. They definitely cut to the bone last year, but it wasn't a full fire sale in that they got the most they could out of the best they had instead of just shipping anyone out with a pulse. Once it became apparent that Bedard was the goal, it was a focus on getting as much draft capital for sure, but you have to have something left for him to at least walk into and be attractive to players to come be a part of. We'll see if he walked that line, I'm not convinced he did, but hopefully their is enough left that they can develop the kids who are going to be thrown in the fire.

 

[KBIB]

There's alot of stupidity going on over social media with this draft that hopefully doesn't weasel its way into this forum outside of the one moron posting click bait shit.1

Somebody posted a draft pick value chart that states moving from 5 to 2 would only cost a third round pick.

There's ppl who think the Hawks can package a couple second rounders for a top five pick.

Some idiot wrote the Preds should package their entire draft for the first overall.

As the Regs here know, this doesn't happen in the NHL.

Davidson is going to have a hard time moving up in this draft considering the picks we would want are held by teams that already have alot of picks. The 35 pick has first round value. It's going to take the 19 and 35 minimum to move up a couple spots. It's not worth it.

Ppl keep parroting that Davidson said he doesn't think he's using all those picks like it's written in stone. Good luck with that. This draft isn't like last year where Davidson dealed himself into the first round. There's going to be high end talent on the board at around pick 28 and above and the guys who have high end skills but are missing one thing up until around pick 42.

This is as deep a draft as you will see in awhile. But I swear im already getting the smartest guy in the room vibes.....

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

22/23 season is over wrong thread