Blackhawks' Bolland draws ire of Canucks coach

[supraman]

So Ladd Versteeg and Buff were all shut down centers? Might as well just throw Niemi on there too.

we need barker back

 

[howcho]

This was all the talk on the Vancouver radio the other day. Oddly there are some fans out there that are not so dumb.



The radio talk host was so greatly offended by the Bolland comments that he thought to have a little rant of his own. Among other things, he stated that if the league contracted by two teams that Bolland would not have an NHL job.



The first three callers into the show, challanged him on that. The first caller said he (the host) was out to lunch to think that Bolland would not have a job. The caller went on to state, that he would rather have Bolland than one of the Sedin's in the playoffs!The host then replied that the caller had zero hockey knowledge. Here is the fun part; the next two callers also agreed with the first caller, stating that they would rather have Bolland in a playoff run. The host was dumb-founded...



[media]http://www.teamradio.ca/podcast/1040_morning_show/Scotty_Company_dec_14_Hour2_Powered_by_Kingsway_Honda~.mp3[/media]



The Bollie stuff starts at about 16:42



noticed that the player does not show the time. likely about 1/3 the way through after they talk to Ray Ferrero



It looks like if you hit the ? it shows you what time of the podcast you are at. Hope that helps

 

[PatrickSharpRules]

here's... hahaha

Thats what sitting and writing an 11 page and 10 page bullshit mindless essays will do to a human brain. Hahahahah, DO YOU HERE ME!!!!

 

[PatrickShart]

So Ladd Versteeg and Buff were all shut down centers? Might as well just throw Niemi on there too.

Sure...this "shut down center" stuff ...



HSedin..has played in 90 playoff games - 20g - 46a - 66pts

74gms away from "Bolland" - 15g - 38a - 53pts (.716ppg)

16gms versus "Bolland" - 5g - 8a - 13pts - (.813ppg)



DSedin has played 90 playoff games - 23g - 39a - 62pts

74gms away from "Bolland" - 19g - 32a - 51pts (.689ppg)

16gms versus "Bolland" - 4g - 7a - 11pts (.688ppg)



Seems to me that their playoff numbers are pretty much the exact same against the shut down king of the world versus every other team/player they go against in the playoffs - that their production isn't as good as their regular season numbers no matter what team they play. Or that SJ, DET, DAL, NASH...or any other playoff team they went against has their own "Bolland" that shuts them down too?

 

[Ton]

I'd like to see their plus-minus on that PMXC.

 

[PatrickShart]

UGH...Ton...lol....you're killing me....gimmie a few and I can dig it up/add it (damn work expecting me to work)



The point or difference, in my opinion...isn't that he "shuts them down" - but that he produces offensively against them being the difference.

 

[supraman]

DAVE BOLLAND FOREVER!!!!

 

[Ton]

UGH...Ton...lol....you're killing me....gimmie a few and I can dig it up/add it (damn work expecting me to work)



The point or difference, in my opinion...isn't that he "shuts them down" - but that he produces offensively against them being the difference.

I can agree with that... this is always why I thought Bolland should be playing with more offensively capable players---I think he is solid two-ways but I think he has more offensive creativity and an edge to his game, this doesn't equate to being a shutdown center but a good center that is capable of putting up points against the other teams top line. I like Kruger on the 2nd line but really they should have given Bolland a shot there first... needless to say Bickell/Bolland/Frolik have pretty much been split up anyway so what's the use of keeping him as the "3rd line C"... might as well get his shot too.



I also have to wonder if Bolland is injured right now.

 

[the canadian dream]

Bolland has no wingers. In the past when he played. Guys like ladd or havlat etc he produced offense. As of right now they have that line focussed on shut down. And bolland does a hell of a great job on the pk incase anyone hast noticed.



Bolly isnt an issue outside of his health history. Give him one offensive minded wing on either side and his numbers would improve. If you watch a lot of games you will also notice he is constantly covering his current wing mens positions. He is more than just playing center out there and he carries a lot of the work load on that line. He also plays the pest roll well and wise which every team need.



Stats tell very little about bollands game.

 

[Ton]

Bolland has no wingers. In the past when he played. Guys like ladd or havlat etc he produced offense. As of right now they have that line focussed on shut down. And bolland does a hell of a great job on the pk incase anyone hast noticed.



Bolly isnt an issue outside of his health history. Give him one offensive minded wing on either side and his numbers would improve. If you watch a lot of games you will also notice he is constantly covering his current wing mens positions. He is more than just playing center out there and he carries a lot of the work load on that line. He also plays the pest roll well and wise which every team need.



Stats tell very little about bollands game.

I agree, again I'd like to see him with Sharp/Hossa as his wingers... that would be dynamite.

 

[PatrickShart]

Bolland has no wingers. In the past when he played. Guys like ladd or havlat etc he produced offense. As of right now they have that line focussed on shut down. And bolland does a hell of a great job on the pk incase anyone hast noticed. Bolly isnt an issue outside of his health history. Give him one offensive minded wing on either side and his numbers would improve. If you watch a lot of games you will also notice he is constantly covering his current wing mens positions. He is more than just playing center out there and he carries a lot of the work load on that line. He also plays the pest roll well and wise which every team need. Stats tell very little about bollands game.

I thought Frolik is considered one of the better "two way forwards" on this team. Not being sarcastic...but he was a 2x 20 goal scorer and thought he was labeled good defensively/in his own zone - but Bolland has to cover for him? Those 2 have pretty much played together all year.



He had Bickell a good portion of this year (not a fan of his, but he put up 17g as a rookie - some may say thats a decent offensive player/numbers)...had Smith, Kruger, Brunette at times....

 

[the canadian dream]

Frolik has been playing good defense. The offense isnt thete. You trying to pin that on bolland? I dont understand that argument. You just named off a bunch of wingers who have no offensive flair.



Hawks 3rd line is a shut down line. Its pretty obvious. I would like more offense from them too but its not happening with those wingers. And its not bollamds job as a 3rd line center to make his wing men better. Thats scottys job

 

[PatrickShart]

You just said that Bolland has to cover for his wingers - Frolik being the one that's played most with him....but Frolik is playing good defence? So why is it he has to cover for him?



I think Bolland has put up offensive numbers with Ladd - but is Ladd better offensively than Frolik is? Ladd topped 20 just once (last year). Bolland has shown to put up offensive numbers in 1/2 seasons at times - but is that because of Ladd/Versteeg/Havlat only?

 

[Variable]

UGH...Ton...lol....you're killing me....gimmie a few and I can dig it up/add it (damn work expecting me to work)



The point or difference, in my opinion...isn't that he "shuts them down" - but that he produces offensively against them being the difference.

This is the kind of thing that Hockey Prospectus is good for. Stats can tell a lot. And what you're saying is pretty accurate. His percentages and numbers are off the board in that aspect and not just against the Canucks but in other playoffs series in general the last couple years. And it's something that realistically shouldn't be expected to continue. Going over the last Vancouver series, the Philly series in the Cup Final and San Jose in Conference Finals, when Bolland was on the ice for the Hawks, they created almost 50 scoring chances, while giving up around 70. That's pretty damn good for a 3rd line playing against the top players of the opposition the majority of the time. What's out of the ordinary is that his plus/minus was +13. That's incredible.



At even strength, and not counting empty net goals or SHG, the Hawks outscored the opponent 16-5 with Bolland on the ice. That's scoring amazingly in over a third of their scoring chances with him on the ice. And the scoring chances against them were saved at an improbable save % clip of over .920. That's damn near impossible to sustain, so much of it is out of his control. It's not all luck of course, he plays well, but those percentages are crazy. Above what he does.



There's so much chance and randomness that occurs in the game, much more than people give credit to, so sometimes you get these players that get that kind of "playoff mythos" swirling around them because it's not exactly storyline friendly to bring up stuff like scoring chance PDO numbers, Corsi, QualComp, percentage of time a player starts in his own zone, etc,etc. It's easier to go with the mysterious sensationalism of it rather than try to actually break it down. I see it as an opportunity lost to educate people about the game, but that's just me.



And funnily enough there's actually an article up on the Hawks site right now titled "The Myth of Dave Bolland", I thought that was a fitting title. I'm really not trying to "hate" on him, I really like Bolland and what he brings to the team, but there's no way he can sustain that kind of production combined with goal prevention. So when you see Bolland not being the Bolland you remember in the playoffs, don't automatically think he may be injured, he's probably just re-entering the Earth's atmosphere. It usually balances out.

 

[the canadian dream]

You just said that Bolland has to cover for his wingers - Frolik being the one that's played most with him....but Frolik is playing good defence? So why is it he has to cover for him?



I think Bolland has put up offensive numbers with Ladd - but is Ladd better offensively than Frolik is? Ladd topped 20 just once (last year). Bolland has shown to put up offensive numbers in 1/2 seasons at times - but is that because of Ladd/Versteeg/Havlat only?

pmx are you in the egg nog today. I said Frolik is playing good defense. Bolland has to cover for him up front you numb skull. You guys are bitching about Bollands offensive numbers I am debating that they aren't as important as his defensive game on the 3rd line!! ITS A SHUT DOWN LINE!!!



Fuck stats up the ass they don't show shit about 3rd line players.

 

[Ton]

Frolik? Shut-down winger? I can hardly call him a good two-way player... let alone "one of the best" on this team. Toews, Sharp, Hossa, Bolland, Kruger, Mayers are the better half, Kane also improving... Frolik to me is on the same level as Stalberg when it comes to his two-way ability, hell I'm even beginning to like Carcillo's two-way game.



What you see is what you get, he's a skilled winger that'll probably have a bumpy road with consistency throughout the year (certainly bumpy right now) but he'll have his hot streaks when he starts to get chippy--otherwise he floats around when there is no emotion in his game. Capable in the defensive end? Sure... but I have yet to see him shut anyone down.



Andrew Ladd is a shutdown winger, there's a big difference.



Right now, we have no shut-down line, or winger. That's why our GA sucks. 3rd worse GA in the Conference... only Columbus and Anaheim are worse--and they are the bottom two teams.

 

[Variable]

pmx are you in the egg nog today. I said Frolik is playing good defense. Bolland has to cover for him up front you numb skull. You guys are bitching about Bollands offensive numbers I am debating that they aren't as important as his defensive game on the 3rd line!! ITS A SHUT DOWN LINE!!!



Fuck stats up the ass they don't show shit about 3rd line players.

But you can use stats to evaluate them as well, which do a lot better than just the bare bone stats. Like this year, those percentages that were off the chart in the playoffs for Bolland have been going the opposite way. Right now he's at -8 and he's got the highest QualComp on the team (quality of competition). The team has also been outshooting the opposition while he's on the ice (least they were last I checked) BUT the big difference is the save % on the chances against while he's on the ice. It's hovering around .870-.880 rather than the Hasek like +.920. That's horrible, it's no where near league average. So it may look bad going by the plus and minus, but it's not really anything specifically wrong with him or his play. It's just that no one can keep up with that "playoff standard" that he set for himself. So much has to go right for you for it to end up like that.

 

[Ton]

Is the SV% a problem with goaltending or a problem with quality chances given up by his line? All questions to consider.



Where do you grab these stats?

 

[Larmer83]

Not sure what site Variable uses, this site has many of the same metrics.



http://www.behindthenet.ca/





Here's the site that disproved the "no chemistry with Hossa" bs on Bolland.



http://www.dobberhockey.com/frozenpool/

 

[the canadian dream]

I dont need a website to prove that Hossa and Bolland had chemisty. Just watch when they played together.