Blog-a-bull agrees with me on Noah

[dougthonus]

http://www.blogabull.com/2009/3/31/817418/in-case-youve-forgotten-joakim

I haven't really looked at the minute distribution vs wins, but you would think if the relation was that strong it would result in a very good +/-. His is okay +2.8 via 82games.com which uses real adjusted +/- not the bastardized version that nba.com/yahoo use. It's below only Hinrich, Miller, Tim Thomas, and Ben Gordon of players still on the team.

Though the first three don't have so many minutes as Noah with the Bulls. Not that I'm a huge believer in +/-, but I would think Matt's point would show in +/- more if it was accurate throughout the season. Of course, it could be that his early play tanked his +/- and his play lately has sent it way positive.

 

[fola]

dougthonus wrote:

http://www.blogabull.com/2009/3/31/817418/in-case-youve-forgotten-joakim

I haven't really looked at the minute distribution vs wins, but you would think if the relation was that strong it would result in a very good +/-. His is okay +2.8 via 82games.com which uses real adjusted +/- not the bastardized version that nba.com/yahoo use. It's below only Hinrich, Miller, Tim Thomas, and Ben Gordon of players still on the team.

Though the first three don't have so many minutes as Noah with the Bulls. Not that I'm a huge believer in +/-, but I would think Matt's point would show in +/- more if it was accurate throughout the season. Of course, it could be that his early play tanked his +/- and his play lately has sent it way positive.

See these are the kind of things that I find maddening about VDN. Boggles my mind. I don’t expect that he’d be reading random interweb blogs but still… I mean come on, nba teams are privy to more stats than we could imagine. And I know you argue that he’s gotten better…

 

[dougthonus]

In his defense, the team has played REALLY well when Brad Miller is on the floor, so I can see why noah has had his minutes cut some, and in the 2 losses that he talks about, Salmons was out of one game, and missed the 4th quarter of the other one.

 

[fola]

dougthonus wrote:

In his defense, the team has played REALLY well when Brad Miller is on the floor, so I can see why noah has had his minutes cut some, and in the 2 losses that he talks about, Salmons was out of one game, and missed the 4th quarter of the other one.

you're right, i know..

Its just that there are times that I think we'd be better served to have him on the floor. Esp when it looks like our guys are gassed. Even if it means going with Noah and Miller for stretches.

 

[Ralphb07]

The last two game IMO has more to do with Salmons. The offense is a lot better when Miller is on the floor and Tyrus being younger with more potential is going to get more minutes than Noah.

I think it's tough right now because Noah does help the defense and stuff more but the defense is still bad regardless of who's playing and with Miller the offense is much better and makes a big difference.

Vinny just needs to find ways to play all three. Play Miller @ 30 Tyrus at 35 and that leaves 31 for Noah and if you need offense out of Timmy just cut Noah and Tyrus 3 minutes a piece. IMO Timmy should never be over 10 minutes a game

 

[dougthonus]

fola wrote:

dougthonus wrote:

In his defense, the team has played REALLY well when Brad Miller is on the floor, so I can see why noah has had his minutes cut some, and in the 2 losses that he talks about, Salmons was out of one game, and missed the 4th quarter of the other one.

you're right, i know..

Its just that there are times that I think we'd be better served to have him on the floor. Esp when it looks like our guys are gassed. Even if it means going with Noah and Miller for stretches.

Agreed. I think Noah and Tyrus should get 30 minutes every night. There are 96 minutes between PF/C, there's plenty of room to play them 60 of those 96 minutes leaving 36 minutes left for Miller/Tiny Tim.

 

[Rerisen]

I think part of the problem remains the lack of offense when the team plays both Noah and Tyrus. Vinny being a offensive coach, tends to run Miller in there perhaps longer than is necessary at times, but Brad does provide better over all balance on the floor. Especially at the end of games, it makes it easier for us to get off decent looks without the defense cheating all over.

Recently, VDN has been doing a lot of offense/defense subs with Miller and Noah as well as Kirk and Gordon. He loves burning those timeouts.

Eventually the Bulls may end up choosing between Noah and Tyrus. You can't have both PF and Center be low offense positions.

 

[dougthonus]

Rerisen wrote:

Eventually the Bulls may end up choosing between Noah and Tyrus. You can't have both PF and Center be low offense positions.

I agree, and I think if it comes to that you keep Noah. This may seem counter intuitive because Tyrus has more potential, but if Tyrus doesn't become an offensive player then his potential is no longer on the table.

If Tyrus is strictly a defender then he's no longer a big upgrade to Jo, and you can't find an offensive center nearly as easily as you can find an offensive power forward, so if you need to replace one with an offensive option it will be easier to replace Tyrus with offense.

 

[Dpauley23]

I actually think that you could keep both if you got star sg

 

[Kush77]

I agree with you on Noah too DT.

I was all about Noah leading up to the 2007 draft. I got down on him earlier in the year (Tyrus too). But they have both been solid lately.

I never understood why people hated him so much?

 

[collisrost]

Noah is a really good player. He's not even as bad offensively as people make him out to be. He's certainbly better than guys like Ben Wallace. He's got just abou tall the offensive skills you'd want other thsan shooting. You can surely design an offense that doesn't involve your center shooting 15 foot jumpers. He can be a passer, be a threat to cut to the basket, be an offensive rebounder, be a good pick setter, even post up occasionally.

He might not score 20 points himself, but he can help make it easier for others to score with his passing, pick setting, and by being a threat to dunk the ball.

 

[Rose1]

It's like the Bears situation involving the QB position. They needed a QB desperately and they got it. Bulls same situation, they don't have a offensive force down low and like former Bear Orton, Thomas is mediocre. He'll only go so far. It's so bad that to cover up his flaws the management says he have to stay active. That's bull, I want to see someone with skills on this roster next year manning the front-line. What's so hard about it? I honestly think, on a off topic, Earl Clark would do a better job offensively at the 4. He's decisive and has fundamentals. Thomas is a talented athlete but I don't want my cjips near him.

 

[DanTown]

I like me some Thomas or Noah, but I really don't like the idea of keeping both. Its a limited scoring front court and since I think you can get a scoring PF better than a scoring C and Noah does the little things (hustle, rebound, run the floor) better than Tyrus.

 

[dougthonus]

DanTown wrote:

I like me some Thomas or Noah, but I really don't like the idea of keeping both. Its a limited scoring front court and since I think you can get a scoring PF better than a scoring C and Noah does the little things (hustle, rebound, run the floor) better than Tyrus.

I agree. If Tyrus shows offensive skill and potential you can play the two together, but if he doesn't then I agree, Noah does the defensive things you need better, and he'll be harder to replace as a center.

 

[Dpauley23]

I think they can coexist together if you add another star at sg or sf position

 

[collisrost]

Thanks to vinny thomas is on his way to being a decent scoring threat m with a decent jumper. as long as the Bulls offence is fast paced to suit Rose's strengths we don't really need anything else. it would be a luxury to have a low post player but not an absolute necessity.

 

[dougthonus]

collisrost wrote:

Thanks to vinny thomas is on his way to being a decent scoring threat m with a decent jumper. as long as the Bulls offence is fast paced to suit Rose's strengths we don't really need anything else. it would be a luxury to have a low post player but not an absolute necessity.

Is this really thanks to Vinny?

The real question is would Vinny have coached this way if he had other choices. When Tyrus was shooting nothing but bricks against Boston, Vinny defend him in the press then cut his playing time significantly.

When Gooden got hurt Tyrus/Noah started playing more, and I can't complain too much with Tyrus/Noah's minutes on the season, but he went away from them until he had no other choice.

 

[collisrost]

You're right it's an overstatement to say thanks to Vinny. I guess after the way Boylan coached I've got low standards.

But still, at least Vinny hasn't bowed to the pressure to constrain Tyrus. And we're going to make the playoffs. Really no major complaints.

 

[chicagosportsfan]

the only complaints about vinny that i have is the deng contract, and his sometimes poor substitution methods.

 

[collisrost]

How could you use the Deng contract as a complaint about Vinny? I very much doubt he had much influence in negotiations.