Boston Farm System prior to Theo takeover

[mountsalami]

It appears a self-proclaimed asset to this board doesn't cut the weeds down close to the ditch. A tree hugger. With the breath of an active prison cell.

It is asking for facts on how the Red Sox farm system wasn't stocked because Baseball America had it ranked 27th or something.

Here you go.

The Red Sox farm system in 2002 had Hanley Ramirez, Kevin Youkillis, Jon Lester, Kelly Shoppach, Freddy Sanchez, Jorge de la Rosa, Phil Dumatrait and Manny Delcarmen.

Show me 26 other teams and the players they had in their farm system, in 2002, that ended up out producing what these players did or brought to the Red Sox in trades.

Please respond accordingly. Showing us all the usual symptoms of what true genius potential we have all been blessed to experience. You have so, philanthropically, made this board much dumber as a result.

Fire Away. Sally.



:fap:

 

[chibears55]

The Red Sox farm system in 2002 had Hanley Ramirez, Kevin Youkillis, Jon Lester, Kelly Shoppach, Freddy Sanchez, Jorge de la Rosa, Phil Dumatrait and Manny Delcarmen.

Show me 26 other teams and the players they had in their farm system, in 2002, that ended up out producing what these players did or brought to the Red Sox in trades.

thats great that epstein had some talent in the farm system to help him make make a good team better with call ups, and trades along with a few FA signings and it took just 2 yrs to win a world series.. that would be a GM dream to come in with such talent in the organization and also have a playoff roster..


heres what he got to work with with the cubs..

2012 top 10 prospects

1. Brett Jackson, of
2. Javier Baez, ss
3. Matt Szczur, of
4. Trey McNutt, rhp
5. Dillon Maples, rhp
6. Wellington Castillo, c
7. Rafael Dolis, rhp
8. Junior Lake, ss
9. Josh Vitters, 3b/1b
10. Dan Vogelbach, 1b

certainly at least on paper not quite an elite group of prospects here...

so, along with his owner reducing payroll on him and having a 25 man roster that came off of back to back 90 losses , its not going to be as easy to put together a solid 25 man roster to compete for a world series.. so, its going to take a few years to have a solid farm system and with a small payroll to work with, have a 25 man roster to compete for a title with...

as i said before, IF you have a gripe with anyone from the cubs it should be directed more towards the ricketts then epstein and hoyer.. their the ones who set payroll where its at..

its no doubt that their 25 man roster is horrible, mainly due to the small payroll but after 1 year their farm system has improved with a new top 10 and they still have the players from their 2012 top 10 in their system..

2013 top 10 prospects
1. Javier Baez, ss
2. Albert Almora, of
3. Jorge Soler, of
4. Arodys Vizcaino, rhp
5. Brett Jackson, of
6. Pierce Johnson, rhp
7. Dan Vogelbach, 1b
8. Jeimer Candelario, 3b
9. Kyuji Fujikawa, rhp
10. Arismendy Alcantara, ss

and that should only get better with the top picks in the draft this year...

Now as soon as the ricketts decide to raise payroll and allow them to spend and it better be this off season, hopefully we will have a chance to see both epstein and hoyer improve the cubs 25 man roster for 2014..

 

[KBisBack!]

as i said before, IF you have a gripe with anyone from the cubs it should be directed more towards the ricketts then epstein and hoyer.. their the ones who set payroll where its at..

its no doubt that their 25 man roster is horrible, mainly due to the small payroll but after 1 year their farm system has improved with a new top 10 and they still have the players from their 2012 top 10 in their system..

bearz99,

There should be a gripe with ownership and management. This team is so bad there is enough blame to go around for everyone.

Great that the minors system is slightly better, but the major league team is much, much, much worse.

Not sure if you understand that the goal of a major league team is to win the most games, not have the most top 100 prospects, but I will let you in on a secret....

That is the goal. To win the most games.

There was nothing done to the minor league system that couldn't have been done at the same time as attempting to field the best major league team possible instead of the AAA team we are forced to watch.

 

[KBisBack!]

Now as soon as the ricketts decide to raise payroll and allow them to spend and it better be this off season, hopefully we will have a chance to see both epstein and hoyer improve the cubs 25 man roster for 2014..

bearz99,

You mean IF ricketts decides to raise payroll. There is no guarantee that will happen.

 

[patg006]

Here you go.

The Red Sox farm system in 2002 had Hanley Ramirez, Kevin Youkillis, Jon Lester, Kelly Shoppach, Freddy Sanchez, Jorge de la Rosa, Phil Dumatrait and Manny Delcarmen.

Not to nit pick semantics: but you forgot Anibal Sanchez, and even then there are names considered top prospects who burned out and busted in the MLB. Josh Thigpen, Billy Simon, Will Ledezima, Jerome Gamble.

Fire Away. Sally.


:fap:

What have you done? Do you want the boy blunder :fap: club to get their panties in a bunch? At the same time?

Find Bearswillwin quick, he's missed Willrust and Bearz99 quite a bit. Add Wrig and its a party.....

opcorn:

 

[chibears55]

bearz99,

again, dont know why you keep addressing me as bears99 but if that floats your boat then so be it..
maybe you just dont know your numbers too well... 99 and 55 :shrug:

Not sure if you understand that the goal of a major league team is to win the most games, not have the most top 100 prospects, but I will let you in on a secret....

That is the goal. To win the most games.

not sure that you understand that in order to be able to have a competative roster to win more then you lose year after year, you need a decent minor league system to be able to bring up players when needed or use them to gain GOOD players VIA trade..

see 2010, and 2011 season of the cubs .. maybe if they had a decent system they wouldnt of struggled as much when certain players got injured or struggled

There was nothing done to the minor league system that couldn't have been done at the same time as attempting to field the best major league team possible instead of the AAA team we are forced to watch

.

i agree except there was something that kept epstein and hoyer from fielding a better major league team..

ill let you in on a little secret that you seem to be one of a few that dont know about it.. ready ? pay attention now..

their owner tom ricketts increased their payroll...

it was 134M in 2011 it dropped to 109M in 2012 and is at 106M now
so its hard to put a competitive team on the field when your owner not giving you the funds to do so...
and you had pretty much nothing in your system ready to bring up...

 

[chibears55]

You mean IF ricketts decides to raise payroll. There is no guarantee that will happen.

ummm... IF... as soon.. allow them pretty much all the same meaning :shrug:

Now as soon as the ricketts decide to raise payroll and allow them to spend and it better be this off season,

 

[KBisBack!]

again, dont know why you keep addressing me as bears99 but if that floats your boat then so be it..
maybe you just dont know your numbers too well... 99 and 55 :shrug:

Just addressing you by your CBS name that many here know you as.

not sure that you understand that in order to be able to have a competative roster to win more then you lose year after year, you need a decent minor league system to be able to bring up players when needed or use them to gain GOOD players VIA trade..

Not sure that you understand that no one on this board or the CBS board has EVER said the Cubs shouldn't have a strong farm system.

So I think everyone understands that pretty well.

It's just that some people have pointed out the stupidity of endorsing throwing away multiple seasons at the major league level to build a strong farm system that many other teams are able to do while still trying their best to field the best major league team that they can.

Sorry that the concept of doing both is far to advanced for you.

Many of the same people have also pointed out the FACTS about how hard and unlikely it is to field a competitive major league using only the farm system which is what you and many others want to happen before adding to the team with big money free agents despite the team being a major market, top revenue generating team.

i agree except there was something that kept epstein and hoyer from fielding a better major league team..

Yeah, a fairly lengthy list of questionable moves to the major league roster. Sure the payroll isn't close to where it should be for a team with the resources that the Cubs have, but they also have $100M payroll that many teams with less payroll are able to field better teams.

The only starting everyday position players that were starters at the end of 2011 are....

Starlin Castro, Alfonso Soriano, and Darwin Barney.

So 5 of the 8 everyday starters have been brought in under the new management.

But yet idiots still blame the problems of the team on what Hendry left behind.

Those 3 are far down on the list of problems the Cubs have.

Out of the 5 starting pitchers only 2 were on the roster at the end of the 2011 season and that is counting Garza who has yet to pitch this season.

Garza and Shark are far down on the list of problems the Cubs have.

In the bullpen only Carlos Marmol and James Russell are on the roster now and at the end of the 2011 season. I guess I better add Rafael Dolis and his 0.1 inning pitched this year cause he pitched all of 1.1 innings in 2011 before some slurper wets himself pointing out how wrong my facts are.

So that is what?? 7 out of the 25 players left over from the 2011 roster??

So most of the current team was brought in by the current management but yet somehow we shouldn't question that they could have done a better job???

Really??

ill let you in on a little secret that you seem to be one of a few that dont know about it.. ready ? pay attention now..

their owner tom ricketts increased their payroll...

it was 134M in 2011 it dropped to 109M in 2012 and is at 106M now
so its hard to put a competitive team on the field when your owner not giving you the funds to do so...
and you had pretty much nothing in your system ready to bring up...

This doesn't make sense at all.

 

[KBisBack!]

ummm... IF... as soon.. allow them pretty much all the same meaning :shrug:

No. Not even close.

"As soon as" implies something that will happen in short order. Little to no uncertainty that the event will occur.

"If" implies that it may or may not happen.

Two completely different contexts.

 

[CSF77]

F/A signings: Feldman: potential trade chip. Baker: potential trade chip. Schierholtz: potential trade chip. Hairston: potential trade chip. Fuji: closer if Marmol gained trade value. Jackson: replacing Garza after he was traded...........So what I saw was Jed using F/A as another modem to acquire farm talent faster then via the draft. Nothing new they did this last year.

 

[KBisBack!]

F/A signings: Feldman: potential trade chip. Baker: potential trade chip. Schierholtz: potential trade chip. Hairston: potential trade chip. Fuji: closer if Marmol gained trade value. Jackson: replacing Garza after he was traded...........So what I saw was Jed using F/A as another modem to acquire farm talent faster then via the draft. Nothing new they did this last year.

Clearly you miss the point that the major league team should not be used to build the farm system.

That is actually the opposite of the way it should be done and how almost every successful team does things.

 

[chibears55]

Just addressing you by your CBS name that many here know you as.

really ?? you and your buddy from CBS seem to be the only two that address me as bears99....
many of the other posters on here have been here a while, dont think they know or care of this bears99 poster..


Not sure that you understand that no one on this board or the CBS board has EVER said the Cubs shouldn't have a strong farm system.

never said anyone did.... please show me where i said everyone thinks they should, i was only in a conversation with you...

It's just that some people have pointed out the stupidity of endorsing throwing away multiple seasons at the major league level to build a strong farm system that many other teams are able to do while still trying their best to field the best major league team that they can.

Sorry that the concept of doing both is far to advanced for you.

Many of the same people have also pointed out the FACTS about how hard and unlikely it is to field a competitive major league using only the farm system which is what you and many others want to happen before adding to the team with big money free agents despite the team being a major market, top revenue generating team.

and i agreed with you, but you seem to be the type of poster that has an agenda on here to just argue for the sake of arguing with posters...

my only take on that is that their owner isnt giving them the payroll to add the good/better FAs

along with NOT having major league ready prospects in their system to bring up and play to a level of winning baseball...

not sure why you cant see that..
its not epstein fault for what the owner sets payroll at even if their the "3rd highest revenue team" or for what they had already in their system before he came..

i think you fail to see that side of some people defense of epstein and hoyer..

Yeah, a fairly lengthy list of questionable moves to the major league roster. Sure the payroll isn't close to where it should be for a team with the resources that the Cubs have, but they also have $100M payroll that many teams with less payroll are able to field better teams.

sure, like the cardinals but they also been able to maintain a solid minor league system that helps in trades and bringing up when needed...
epstein didnt have that when he took over, he had a team that sucked and needed a turnover after back to back 90 losses and a payroll he was told to decrease..



This doesn't make sense at all.

was suppose to say decrease not increase...

 

[CSF77]

Clearly you miss the point that the major league team should not be used to build the farm system.

That is actually the opposite of the way it should be done and how almost every successful team does things.

I get the point and you should get that I don't agree with them pulling this crap.

 

[CSF77]

And the only thing that I would agree with the stock piling of farm product is if they are building up depth for trade assets. About it. Even though I doubt they get a prospect in return this year worth a damn. Only one from last year was broken and still is broken.

 

[mountsalami]

This doesn't make sense at all.

was suppose to say decrease not increase...

bearz99.

Still not too sure that would help things much.

really ?? you and your buddy from CBS seem to be the only two that address me as bears99....
many of the other posters on here have been here a while, dont think they know or care of this bears99 poster..

Apparently you do because you changed your name. Still the very same mastermind behind the keyboard I see.

its not epstein fault for what the owner sets payroll at even if their the "3rd highest revenue team" or for what they had already in their system before he came..

It is Boy Blunder's fault for wasting the "budget dollars" on mostly pure shit and other teams throw-aways. What a genius.

 

[KBisBack!]

my only take on that is that their owner isnt giving them the payroll to add the good/better FAs


its not epstein fault for what the owner sets payroll at even if their the "3rd highest revenue team" or for what they had already in their system before he came..

i think you fail to see that side of some people defense of epstein and hoyer..

And I pointed out how most of the roster has been turned over meaning there has been PLENTY of opportunity to make the team better than what it is.

They are right in the middle of the pack in terms of payroll and at the very bottom of the league in wins.

Only an idiot would claim the only reason the team is as bad as it is, is because lack of money.

There have been plenty of terrible roster decisions which has have nothing to do with payroll that have contributed to the sad state of the team.

 

[KBisBack!]

epstein didnt have that when he took over, he had a team that sucked and needed a turnover after back to back 90 losses

bearz99,

I seem to remember, and should point out for all the people here who weren't over on CBS, how you went on and on and on about how dumb it was for someone to suggest Dan Duquette for GM when I mentioned him as an alternative before Epstein was hired by the Cubs and before Duquette was hired by Baltimore. The rest of the CBS crew can verify that as well.

And all he did was turn around an Orioles team that had lost 90 or more games SIX SEASONS IN A ROW and in one offseason turned them into a playoff team that is off to another strong start this year as well.

 

[chibears55]

really ?? you and your buddy from CBS seem to be the only two that address me as bears99....
many of the other posters on here have been here a while, dont think they know or care of this bears99 poster..

Apparently you do because you changed your name. Still the very same mastermind behind the keyboard I see.

huh ?? talking about not making sense...


you two like to ride posters on here pretty good with your insults, etc.towards posters who dont agree with what you write..
thats all fine and dandy, but kind of funny cause i bet you two probably wouldnt say boo to someone to their face..

dont know who this bears99 character is or what you all did on CBS, but it must of been a suckass message board if you two were the main characters and every post was about how horrible epstein and cubs are and arguments with other posters over who can insult the other the most..

we can make simple here between us.. either stay on topic of conversation or simply dont respond..

 

[chibears55]

bearz99,

I seem to remember, and should point out for all the people here who weren't over on CBS, how you went on and on and on about how dumb it was for someone to suggest Dan Duquette for GM when I mentioned him as an alternative before Epstein was hired by the Cubs and before Duquette was hired by Baltimore. The rest of the CBS crew can verify that as

well.

:roll: ok ??? who are the rest of your CBS crew that think they 100% know that im some poster from CBS called bears99 that simply just wont agree with you because they like you..

as far as dan duquette goes.. who cares ?? tom ricketts is still the owner, he the one who lowered payroll to 100 MIL and whether it was duquette or epstein, it still dont change the fact that they had a shit ass minor league system going into 2012..

you cant assume what players he would of brought into the cubs situation or which players would of wanted to come here..
two different organizations with different situations...

 

[KBisBack!]

well.

:roll: ok ??? who are the rest of your CBS crew that think they 100% know that im some poster from CBS called bears99 that simply just wont agree with you because they like you..

as far as dan duquette goes.. who cares ?? tom ricketts is still the owner, he the one who lowered payroll to 100 MIL and whether it was duquette or epstein, it still dont change the fact that they had a shit ass minor league system going into 2012..

you cant assume what players he would of brought into the cubs situation or which players would of wanted to come here..
two different organizations with different situations...

Yawn.

Once again there are plenty of other GM's doing a better job than Theo is with the same or even less payroll.

Your excuse of it is payroll being the only reason Theo is doing a bad job is just well, dumb and not supported by facts or logic.