brad miller

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

Sure he does, he still has huge athletic advantages over every pg in the league. Otherwise he wouldn't be dominating, Rose isn't exactly stockton out there. The level of athleticism has certainly increased in the nba but he is still leaps and bounds a head of almost ever other pg.

almost...not Evans and "dars a boy a' comin' from the hills of Kentucky named Wall..." lol...

Evans isn't really a PG. Wall is the only one really on the same level.

 

[houheffna]

Evans IS a pg...why do you think Stacey King compared him to Micheal Ray Richardson? He plays the point in Sacramento...

 

[Shakes]

TheStig wrote:

Rose needs to man up and get over the young player defensive issues and focus on it. Its not a physical issue, its all mental with him. There is no reason he can't become a average on that end.

I'm not saying Rose shouldn't/can't become a good defender, I'm saying it makes a lot of sense to rest him and allow him to spend as much energy as possible on the other end.

I also don't think our situation of having a combo guard at SG is that rare. Having a combo guard in a three guard rotation just works better vs having to get someone just to play point for the 10 minutes Rose wont be on the court anyway.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Rose needs to man up and get over the young player defensive issues and focus on it. Its not a physical issue, its all mental with him. There is no reason he can't become a average on that end.

I'm not saying Rose shouldn't/can't become a good defender, I'm saying it makes a lot of sense to rest him and allow him to spend as much energy as possible on the other end.

I also don't think our situation of having a combo guard at SG is that rare. Having a combo guard in a three guard rotation just works better vs having to get someone just to play point for the 10 minutes Rose wont be on the court anyway.

I have no problem with a combo guard, its an asset ( just not at what we are paying him). I really have no issue with Kirk being a bull for life if it doesn't cost us better players like BG or potentially a 2nd max fa. I'd love to have him backing up both postions off the bench. My issue is that Rose needs to take the same leap that other guys have after their 2nd or 3rd year. Despite this recent run, Kirk shouldn't be our long term starting sg.

 

[Shakes]

I'm not saying the SG should be Kirk. I think everyone agrees we need to upgrade at SG at some point, Kirk and Salmons are just stop gaps. I'm just saying that if Rose is going to be a 25+ PPG scorer (which is starting to look realistic), then having someone who can allow him to save as much energy for the offensive end as possible would be nice.

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

Evans IS a pg...why do you think Stacey King compared him to Micheal Ray Richardson? He plays the point in Sacramento...

Kirk starts at SG, it doesn't make him a SG. Evans came out as a sg and would play SG if Martin wasn't there. I don't think Sacto is gonna go forward with both of them long term, I wouldn't be surprised if Martin is moved. Weren't you the one arguing about having two big time scorers in the backcourt?

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

I'm not saying the SG should be Kirk. I think everyone agrees we need to upgrade at SG at some point, Kirk and Salmons are just stop gaps. I'm just saying that if Rose is going to be a 25+ PPG scorer (which is starting to look realistic), then having someone who can allow him to save as much energy for the offensive end as possible would be nice.

Thats just the thing, those types of superstars are just a cut above everyone else. They don't need to rest on defense. If Rose is going to be who we think he is, I'm not worried about him.

 

[houheffna]

Kirk starts at SG, it doesn't make him a SG. Evans came out as a sg and would play SG if Martin wasn't there. I don't think Sacto is gonna go forward with both of them long term, I wouldn't be surprised if Martin is moved. Weren't you the one arguing about having two big time scorers in the backcourt?

When Martin was hurt for what...40 games? Evans was the pg for all of those games...every game he has played pg...he was PROJECTED to be a sg...did he play sg in college? No, he played pg, trained by Rod Strickland, a former pg...Paul Westphal then put him right in at pg, eventhough he has 2 other pgs on the roster. I don't remember what I said about two big time scorers in the backcourt. Worked for Dumars and Thomas...if you are referring to Gordon and Rose...I don't think that was my complaint...

 

[houheffna]

Thats just the thing, those types of superstars are just a cut above everyone else. They don't need to rest on defense. If Rose is going to be who we think he is, I'm not worried about him.

They DO need to rest depends on who they are playing...Jordan didn't have to guard the best wing player because of Pippen and later Harper being able to guard pgs and sgs. For now, its Hinrich's defense, ballhandling and outside shooting that is making him valuable to this team....

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

Thats just the thing, those types of superstars are just a cut above everyone else. They don't need to rest on defense. If Rose is going to be who we think he is, I'm not worried about him.

They DO need to rest depends on who they are playing...Jordan didn't have to guard the best wing player because of Pippen and later Harper being able to guard pgs and sgs. For now, its Hinrich's defense, ballhandling and outside shooting that is making him valuable to this team....

MJ didn't have to guard the best perimeter player because he had the best wing defender of all time that could play shut down defense on any pg, sg or sf. We don't have that. Most superstars don't.

 

[houheffna]

MJ didn't have to guard the best perimeter player because he had the best wing defender of all time that could play shut down defense on any pg, sg or sf. We don't have that. Most superstars don't.

Some would say Jordan was a better wing defender...that said, Pippen was not the first wing player in NBA history used in that capacity. It only makes sense to conserve the energy of your best offensive player if possible. I don't think you have to have the greatest wing defender ever to utilize that philosophy...

Before Pippen, the Pistons used Dumars and the Celtics used Dennis Johnson the same way. They could guard both positions and the other player, Thomas and Ainge in this case were either better offensively and had more responsibility on that side or inferior defensively.

 

[pinkizdead]

evans is a pg in the sense that both rose and wade are pgs.

 

[houheffna]

Rose is a pg...Wade is not.

Rose had the same college training that Evans and Wall had...Rod Strickland...

 

[pinkizdead]

just like tim duncan isn't a center.

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

MJ didn't have to guard the best perimeter player because he had the best wing defender of all time that could play shut down defense on any pg, sg or sf. We don't have that. Most superstars don't.

Some would say Jordan was a better wing defender...that said, Pippen was not the first wing player in NBA history used in that capacity. It only makes sense to conserve the energy of your best offensive player if possible. I don't think you have to have the greatest wing defender ever to utilize that philosophy...

Before Pippen, the Pistons used Dumars and the Celtics used Dennis Johnson the same way. They could guard both positions and the other player, Thomas and Ainge in this case were either better offensively and had more responsibility on that side or inferior defensively.

That would be the key part of the statement. Not to mention all of your examples are part of a different era where big defenders could hide some of their lack of quickness with hand-checking.

 

[houheffna]

That would be the key part of the statement. Not to mention all of your examples are part of a different era where big defenders could hide some of their lack of quickness with hand-checking.

What makes that the key part of my statement?


just referring to the fact that you act as if the idea was invented with Pippen...hand checking and defensive schemes are not important...the idea is this-defense takes energy-good defense, as much now as ever. If you can get a Bruce Bowen type who can guard pg,sg,sf routinely at a high level and couldn't use the hand checks and etc, he was still an outstanding defender...then that is what you do.

 

[theCHI_Life84]

for the record, i still miss bg. yea, we're doing ok now, but i feel like we'd be even better had we kept him. you could say that hes been hurt and inconsistent this season, but you cant predict injury, just like you couldnt predict rose would have a bum ankle the first 20 games.

bg wasnt just a 3-pt shooter, he knew how to draw fouls and get to the line better than anyone else on the team. he was a clutch shooter and a major threat in the 4th quarter. maybe he takes some wild shots, but dont tell me that hes the only one that does, and its not like he didnt miss them all.

with the current jumpshooting offensive "system" vinny runs, id much rather have bg taking those jumpshots than any guy we have right now (although the team has finally been bullying into the paint on this winning streak and its been working). add the only legit 3pt threat we had last season, and weve got a team that can score from all angles and distances.

 

[houheffna]

for the record, i still miss bg. yea, we're doing ok now, but i feel like we'd be even better had we kept him. you could say that hes been hurt and inconsistent this season, but you cant predict injury, just like you couldnt predict rose would have a bum ankle the first 20 games.

bg wasnt just a 3-pt shooter, he knew how to draw fouls and get to the line better than anyone else on the team. he was a clutch shooter and a major threat in the 4th quarter. maybe he takes some wild shots, but dont tell me that hes the only one that does, and its not like he didnt miss them all.

with the current jumpshooting offensive "system" vinny runs, id much rather have bg taking those jumpshots than any guy we have right now (although the team has finally been bullying into the paint on this winning streak and its been working). add the only legit 3pt threat we had last season, and weve got a team that can score from all angles and distances.

I am glad he is gone...Rose has stepped up and done what he has to do as a franchise player. And everyone has stepped back and let him be the man...Gordon would not have done that. We don't need him shooting clutch shots we need Rose shooting clutch shots...its the natural progression of a franchise player.

Gordon was not the only good 3pt shooter last year...Salmons and Hinrich were very good as they are doing well this year. Rose has to get better at shooting the 3 himself...those jumpshots are easier to make when open and Rose is driving to the basket and drawing double teams on the perimeter during the course of a game (damn near the whole game against the Hornets...) letting him go was instrumental in Rose being the player he is today...

 

[theCHI_Life84]

houheffna wrote:

I am glad he is gone...Rose has stepped up and done what he has to do as a franchise player. And everyone has stepped back and let him be the man...Gordon would not have done that. We don't need him shooting clutch shots we need Rose shooting clutch shots...its the natural progression of a franchise player.

Gordon was not the only good 3pt shooter last year...Salmons and Hinrich were very good as they are doing well this year. Rose has to get better at shooting the 3 himself...those jumpshots are easier to make when open and Rose is driving to the basket and drawing double teams on the perimeter during the course of a game (damn near the whole game against the Hornets...) letting him go was instrumental in Rose being the player he is today...

well, with that said, i cant tell you youre wrong. what happened, happened, and the recent W's are making the loss of bg easier to get over. but i still would have rather kept the guy, and im pretty sure everyone on this board has made up their mind on how they feel about the situation, whether they agree with what happened or not, and its not gonna change.

but i will say, that im totally with hou in a sense that im done reading on the bg situation. regardless of anyone's viewpoint on it, neither side will change the other side's mind on it, plain and simple. its getting kinda old, how every thread on this board somehow turns into a bg argument. the media has reflected both sides of the argument during different points of the season thus far, and this point there will be no definitive resolution on this, especially when you take into account what hou just mentioned.

i know its hard, but we have to focus on the current bulls right now. we had our time to mourn the loss, and now that there are W's to talk about, lets shift our focus a lil bit

 

[houheffna]

Amen, brother...