Brady, Rodgers and Manning have given us a false premise.

onebud34

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My post mentions surrounding the QB with a strong running game and defense, not making him the focal point of an offense and wasting picks on high end receiving talent. I pointed that the best way to help your QB is not by getting him a Julio Jones but by having a Marshawn Lynch, Ezekiel Elliot or a Devonta Freeman and a strong O-line.

In that respect I think we're fairly close, that might be the only thing I feel confident about going into 2017.

IF the Bears do pick a QB #3 and he beats out Glennon in camp and preseason. I sure hope to hell they don't go with Glennon...that would be a welcome organizational change.

And I do disagree that Wilson needs a running game.
 
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remydat

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The OP may think he knows what he's talking about and others may think so too but he clearly does not. Sitting QBs does not make them better. As in all things, only experience makes them better.

Rodgers was a natural and taken by the Packers before they were looking for a QB just because other foolish teams like the Bears let him drop. Sitting for a few years had nothing to do with what he became. He was better than Favre from the get go but football politics say you don't oust a legend like that so the Pack had to wait til Favre was kinda ready to step down.

Brady is a system QB. No team in the league projected him to be a day 1 starter. Patriots held on to more QBs than usual to see what they had in the their promising 6th round pick. In a system predicated on players working hard to move up, Brady did that hard work and showed himself worthy. Bledsoe went down and would lose his job, for the first time but not the last, to the QB who was just a better fit for that system. While the casual fan may think the Pats have been all about Brady, that's never been true. They've always put a very good defense on that field and afforded him good protection and talent around him as well. The Patriots were just right for Brady and Brady was just right for them. Both needed each other to bring out their best.

Peyton started from day 1 and always said it was the best thing for a QB, a fast track to learning the game better. Say what you want about Peyton and the post season but I don't believe any other QB carried his team on his back for longer than he did.

As far as the promising QBs the OP mentions in order to then disrespect and act like they have no business being thought of on the same level of the aforementioned 3 greats, let's look at the reality of it. He mentions the future greats as Cam Newton, Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota and Derek Carr. Let's go ahead and take out Winston and Mariota cause I don't think they were ever thought of as going on to be "greats" but rather just good or even very good. And going to shit teams will never help their cause. Now let's take out the former ROY and the 2015 MVP. Why? Cause that 2015 season was a fluke and he's a very selfish player meaning he simply doesn't have the right mentality to be great over an extended time period. He's too up and too down and too self absorbed. Leaves us with Wilson, Luck, Ryan and Carr.

Ahh, Andrew Luck, the next Peyton Manning. Injuries early on and a shit franchise that became all too much about putting the entire team on the QB's back have made him look like anything but the next greatest. Maybe things change in the future but this case points to 2 things a career great absolutely requires, long term good health and a solid team around you. Andrew has had neither and so it goes.

Matt Ryan is intriguing. A very good QB who has worked to get better and seems to each year. Again, look at the team he's on. A QB like Brady has played with nothing but good defenses while the guy Ryan has played with nothing but bad ones. If you don't think it's harder to win when you consistently have to score more than 30 points to do so, you're very ignorant.

Russell Wilson made his team a better one since the first day he took the field for them. It couldn't have been more evident so the fact the OP and other casual fans continue to diminish his importance and give all credit to the defense just goes to show how little these fans know. You can't win with no offense and without Wilson, Seattle would have no offense. Has a QB ever done more while being afforded less protection and viable weapons? I think not.

Derek Carr seemed to be taking that next step with the crazy Raiders, before he went down with injury. Certainly he has done more on that team than the parade of QBs who made the attempt before him. It will take a special QB to turn that franchise around. He may very well be just that.

This is a lot of words for an overly simplistic solution. There are guys out there whose confidence gets destroyed playing early and getting killed by a poor offensive line or by throwing picks. Or guys with significant flaws in technique that because they are having to worry about playing never get a chance to completely unlearn bad habits and learn proper technique.

Then there are guys that already have the fundamentals down or who learn best by being thrown into the fire. To pretend like everyone is like that though is silly. People learn and develop in different ways and I would argue a lot of QBs fail because teams don't adopt the approach that works for them.
 

remydat

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Point to where I said the rookie QB should sit. Never once said nor do I believe that. He should be given every right to compete against Glennon in camp.

I am sorry but none of those QB's are going to reach Brady, Rodgers or Peyton level. Wilson and Ryan need to be complimented with a great running game. Cam newton is as inconsistent as they come. Andrew Luck looks more like a talented Jay Cutler than a Peyton Manning.

I am with you on Derek Carr and mentioned he was close but need to see more. He is the one guy so far that I have seen that might reach that level.

My post mentions surrounding the QB with a strong running game and defense, not making him the focal point of an offense and wasting picks on high end receiving talent. I pointed that the best way to help your QB is not by getting him a Julio Jones but by having a Marshawn Lynch, Ezekiel Elliot or a Devonta Freeman and a strong O-line.

Derek Carr has been sacked 24, 31, and 16 times in his 3 years. Bortles has been sacked 55, 51, and 34 times. So I would still caution against pretending like Carr came into the league ready made. There comes a point in a young QB's life where he gets hit so fucking much that he starts to see ghosts. I'm not sure how you separate a QBs development being based on his innate ability versus the situation he finds himself in but I suspect if Carr got sacked 55 and 51 times his first 2 years, he looked a lot more like Bortles or his older broker David than he does to 2016 Derek Carr.

Even Brady looks average when getting pressured as the 2 Super Bowl losses to the Giants can attest to.
 

Warrior Spirit

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Point to where I said the rookie QB should sit. Never once said nor do I believe that. He should be given every right to compete against Glennon in camp.

I am sorry but none of those QB's are going to reach Brady, Rodgers or Peyton level. Wilson and Ryan need to be complimented with a great running game. Cam newton is as inconsistent as they come. Andrew Luck looks more like a talented Jay Cutler than a Peyton Manning.

I am with you on Derek Carr and mentioned he was close but need to see more. He is the one guy so far that I have seen that might reach that level.

My post mentions surrounding the QB with a strong running game and defense, not making him the focal point of an offense and wasting picks on high end receiving talent. I pointed that the best way to help your QB is not by getting him a Julio Jones but by having a Marshawn Lynch, Ezekiel Elliot or a Devonta Freeman and a strong O-line.
Who is to say some of them are not already at that level? When comparing QBs to other QBs, perceptions seem to rule over facts and circumstance. How many times do you see the fans that constantly call it a team sport when defending 1 QB and then pointing to how many SB rings another QB has when trying to say he's the greatest ever? Does Tom Brady have 5 rings if he was drafted by the Bears? I dare say he wouldn't have 1 and likely no fan would even know his name.
 

PolarBear

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Derek Carr has been sacked 24, 31, and 16 times in his 3 years. Bortles has been sacked 55, 51, and 34 times. So I would still caution against pretending like Carr came into the league ready made. There comes a point in a young QB's life where he gets hit so fucking much that he starts to see ghosts. I'm not sure how you separate a QBs development being based on his innate ability versus the situation he finds himself in but I suspect if Carr got sacked 55 and 51 times his first 2 years, he looked a lot more like Bortles or his older broker David than he does to 2016 Derek Carr.

Even Brady looks average when getting pressured as the 2 Super Bowl losses to the Giants can attest to.

Are you agreeing with me? What is your point?
 

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