CBE 113: TMac, Rudy, House or Mason Jr.

[evilhoban]

Wow, Mark-

That's a really disappointing statement. I'm actually a fan of yours on the show and think you're very funny. Unfortunately, being called a winy ***** coming from you doesn't mean anything to me. Would you please be more specific and elaborate on what you think I am winy about?

If you look at the amount of posts I have you will see they are in the low teens. I actually only started coming on here because Fred pissed me off with his stance on D-Wade's comments.....which I believe he has been proven dead wrong. I was offended as a Bulls fan on what Wade said and was disappointed with Fred not taking him to task. That disappointment has built up with my dis-satisfaction on his stance on McGrady and LeBron's special.

And as far as the "whiny" goes...I did have a few glasses of wine before I wrote that post. I shit you not...

You call my posts "low brow stabs", but we all can't be high class and use gems such "Grow a f'in pair, grab a f'in phone". One of the reasons I don't want any part of being on your show is because Fred's going to ambush and shout over me which, by the way is why my whole point in meeting face-to-face is to meet on more neutral ground. I was actually in Chicago (I live in MN) last month for a week and a half and I asked if I could be on then and was denied. My point being that I would say all this stuff to your face and I would love to see you tell me to "grow a f'jn pair" to mine. Especially without possibly knowing about any contact I had with Fred in the past. That's just being a jackass...

...but fine. I'll email you my info and we can see what's what. Just for the record, you wrote 5 sentences and referenced testicles 3 times. Just an observation....I was trying to do something with that info, but I got nothing.

 

[evilhoban]

Fred-

I'm sure if you did try and interview Ashley Bond in person she would seek out a restraining order....ick.

 

[mlewinth]

evilhoban wrote:

Fred-

I'm sure if you did try and interview Ashley Bond in person she would seek out a restraining order....ick.

Evilhoban, I apprecaite you e-mailing me your contact info! IT'S ON! Fred vs Evilhoban...get it on Chicago Bullseye 114!!! This will be more epic than Balboa vs Drago!

 

[clonetrooper264]

mlewinth wrote:

evilhoban wrote:

Fred-

I'm sure if you did try and interview Ashley Bond in person she would seek out a restraining order....ick.

Evilhoban, I apprecaite you e-mailing me your contact info! IT'S ON! Fred vs Evilhoban...get it on Chicago Bullseye 114!!! This will be more epic than Balboa vs Drago!

Why do I get the feeling that an in person meeting between those two would result in a physical fight? :laugh:

 

[houheffna]

I was a bit nervous before going on the show, but came away impressed. All I can say to Evil is state your case, be clear, concise and honest. Stick with your viewpoints, which I agree with and try not to over talk each other. That will make for a bad podcast.

I think you both have a lot to say. I find lots of Fred's statements outlandish and basketball Special person, but I don't think he is a bad guy at all. So I hope you all can have a cordial conversation. That show is like "Crossfire" in the old CNN days. Talking with Kush is more like being a guest on the old "Tom Snyder Show". RIP Tom Snyder...lol

You know what? Kush is like Bill Simmons, with Snyder's personality...Kush is Bill Snyder...

Fred and Mark are like Buchannan and Kingsley, or Hannity and Colmes...Fred is Hannity...lol

 

[evilhoban]

Thanks for the advice, Hugh!

Fred as Hannity? That is pretty funny...I see him more as an O'Reilly. Hopefully this will be like Olbermann vs. O'Reilly, but that's a big standard to set for myself....I'm a waaaaaay better writer than speaker.

 

[emvp1970]

evilhoban wrote:

Wow, Mark-

That's a really disappointing statement. I'm actually a fan of yours on the show and think you're very funny. Unfortunately, being called a winy ***** coming from you doesn't mean anything to me. Would you please be more specific and elaborate on what you think I am winy about?

If you look at the amount of posts I have you will see they are in the low teens. I actually only started coming on here because Fred pissed me off with his stance on D-Wade's comments.....which I believe he has been proven dead wrong. I was offended as a Bulls fan on what Wade said and was disappointed with Fred not taking him to task. That disappointment has built up with my dis-satisfaction on his stance on McGrady and LeBron's special.

And as far as the "whiny" goes...I did have a few glasses of wine before I wrote that post. I shit you not...

You call my posts "low brow stabs", but we all can't be high class and use gems such "Grow a f'in pair, grab a f'in phone". One of the reasons I don't want any part of being on your show is because Fred's going to ambush and shout over me which, by the way is why my whole point in meeting face-to-face is to meet on more neutral ground. I was actually in Chicago (I live in MN) last month for a week and a half and I asked if I could be on then and was denied. My point being that I would say all this stuff to your face and I would love to see you tell me to "grow a f'jn pair" to mine. Especially without possibly knowing about any contact I had with Fred in the past. That's just being a jackass...

...but fine. I'll email you my info and we can see what's what. Just for the record, you wrote 5 sentences and referenced testicles 3 times. Just an observation....I was trying to do something with that info, but I got nothing.

I'd like to get on this debate too. As a Hirnich fan, I've sent a lot of "hate mail" to Fred, as he likes to call it. For once, he had a good point on the loyalty issue. A lot of Bulls fans felt that Jerry wasn't loyal to Phil, MJ, and Scottie, as Fred said, the people who deserved loyaly most, because it was cheaper to be loyal to Krause. I agree. Am I taking stupid pills Evil? Why do you keep saying you were right? Cause Wade resigned with Miami and brought his 2 friends? You weren't right about anything. The fact that the Bulls brought him in twice shows they believed that his comments weren't some grand scheme to hurt the Bulls. The Bulls never had a realistic chance at signing all 3 unless they were able to move Deng. They couldn't, so they went to Miami. It's also helps that it's warm there all year round, with no state income tax.

Your argument was that Wade was trying to kill our chances for free agents by calling the Bulls disloyal. You honestly thought free agents are going to say Dwayne's right, the Bulls aren't loyal, I'm not signing with them. How freaking stupid is that. If that was his intent, he sure as hell wouldn't have done it in an interview with the Chicago Tribune. He would have done it outside of the press instead of giving the Bulls a chance to make a case against it. In a way, Wade did the Bulls a favor. It allowed them to argue against the belief that the Bulls weren't loyal. That perception was there in the league, along with the perception that the Bulls are cheap.

My favorite player was Kirk, and after all his years of playing hard and being a great player and solid citizen, management traded him away to a terrible team. Was I mad because they didn't show him loyalty? No because it's a business. You get paid a ton and that should be enough. If you are going to get mad be cause someone accuses you of disloyalty, then you're going to be mad a lot.

I love reading the boards, and I enjoy Kush and Houheffna arguing and sometimes Fred and Houheffna arguing there, but you hardly post and you've put up more negative stuff than anyone here. I'd be happy to join the debate on loyalty and signing, and I'll meet you wherever you want and we can call in together since your obviously big on face to face.

 

[evilhoban]

EMVP1970-

#1 So your favorite player was Klank Hin-brick, eh? Really? Why?

#2 Did you listen to Doug's Bullsbeat? Our franchise makes business decisions all the time regarding trades. I dare say Noce ended up in a worse spot....but if these guys ever went bankrupt or had health issues, Jerry R. has shown that he gives a shit. Jordan and Phil don't NEED the loyalty we've shown other players....and I argue we have shown loyalty to Pippen, by the way. Wade said this as the Bulls were gaining some momentum with the LeBron rumors. He was TALKING OUT OF HIS ASS. I don't believe he ever seriously considered Chicago. He's a liar and a phony. What part of that don't you get?

#3 Read what I wrote to Mark. I originally contacted because what he said pissed me off so much. Yes....that would be negative criticism. I barely come on here....actually, you barely have many posts yourself. I would imagine it would be mighty difficult to save face while criticizing someone while doing the same thing that you're criticizing me for. That makes you look like a pathetic hypocrite jumping up and down for attention on this forum. I don't care if anybody responds to me. My first post to Fred was to tell him I was disappointed....that's it.

#4 Meet me for that face-to-face at Comic-con on the 20th of this month. I'll be one with Lou Ferigno.

 

[houheffna]

#2 Did you listen to Doug's Bullsbeat? Our franchise makes business decisions all the time regarding trades. I dare say Noce ended up in a worse spot....but if these guys ever went bankrupt or had health issues, Jerry R. has shown that he gives a shit. Jordan and Phil don't NEED the loyalty we've shown other players....and I argue we have shown loyalty to Pippen, by the way. Wade said this as the Bulls were gaining some momentum with the LeBron rumors. He was TALKING OUT OF HIS ASS. I don't believe he ever seriously considered Chicago. He's a liar and a phony. What part of that don't you get?

To your Wade stuff, I don't want to believe it, but I believe it. Not only was he playing the Bulls, but the tears on television might have been crocodile tears...

 

[emvp1970]

evilhoban wrote:

EMVP1970-

#1 So your favorite player was Klank Hin-brick, eh? Really? Why?

#2 Did you listen to Doug's Bullsbeat? Our franchise makes business decisions all the time regarding trades. I dare say Noce ended up in a worse spot....but if these guys ever went bankrupt or had health issues, Jerry R. has shown that he gives a shit. Jordan and Phil don't NEED the loyalty we've shown other players....and I argue we have shown loyalty to Pippen, by the way. Wade said this as the Bulls were gaining some momentum with the LeBron rumors. He was TALKING OUT OF HIS ASS. I don't believe he ever seriously considered Chicago. He's a liar and a phony. What part of that don't you get?

#3 Read what I wrote to Mark. I originally contacted because what he said pissed me off so much. Yes....that would be negative criticism. I barely come on here....actually, you barely have many posts yourself. I would imagine it would be mighty difficult to save face while criticizing someone while doing the same thing that you're criticizing me for. That makes you look like a pathetic hypocrite jumping up and down for attention on this forum. I don't care if anybody responds to me. My first post to Fred was to tell him I was disappointed....that's it.

#4 Meet me for that face-to-face at Comic-con on the 20th of this month. I'll be one with Lou Ferigno.

1. Hinrich played his guts out, and despite Fred's rants, he shot the ball well for most of his career here. Losing him is going to hurt our defense, and defense wins championships.

2. Maybe you missed the part on Doug's show where he said crying about what Wade said was stupid. It's a business, what don't you get? It seems like Houheffna was the only guy on these boards who saw Wade's visit for what it was. None of these guys ever considered Chicago. They were probably laughing the whole time while we traded away one of our best players in Kirk. but wade did us a favor with his loyalty comments, because A TON OF PEOPLE think the Bulls weren't loyal to MJ, Pippen, Jackson, and Grant, including me. Wade couldn't say that about New York. That opionion is there and there are good arguments for it. Yeah, they didn't NEED the loyalty, but they DESERVED it, more than Pete Myers or Randy Brown. but I'm fine with it. It's a business. Put down your comic books and grow up. I hope Rose does the same thing when he's a free agent.

3. I also read your shots at McGrady. "Larry Hughes on crack" is that what you called him.

4. I didn't know you were dating Lou. When he was in town, he used to work out at the Lincoln Park Athletic Club when I was a personal trainer there. I'm not paying whatever amount of money it is to get into nerdfest to meet you, but I'm coming on the Bullseye show with you. You can come to my gym, and we can conference in together. I'll even give you a free personal training session, because based on your tough talk at Doug's blog, I'm betting you're about 5 7 and 140 pounds. Close?

 

[evilhoban]

1# You are wrong, sir. He did not shoot the ball well. I cringed every single time he was left wide open. Do you remember when he missed that wide open lay-up against Boston? UGH! Ronnie Brewer is a better defender than Hinrich as he can "lock down" and Kirk couldn't. As Fred said, Kirk is "fiesty"....but that's about it. I doubt losing Kirk is the reason we won't win the title this year, but thanks for playing!

2# I think LeBron and Bosh did consider Chicago more than Wade ever did. Yeah...you wouldn't consider having Noah, Rose, Gibson and Deng instead of Wade and whatever you can find on the NBA washed-up player scrap heap? I think the three of them have talked about it for years, but nothing was finalized. All three of the guys have their own egos and Wade got a bit nervous due to LeBron meeting the Bulls last in Ohio and him the talk of him coming here being all over ESPN. AND the Bulls did NOT bring Wade in twice. I believe he contacted the Bulls for the first meeting and went back on his own the second time as well.

Now this is the specific point I'm tired of arguing with everyone about because it seems that no matter how simple I break it down for some, you're just either too simple or too ignorant to mentally grasp the concept. He didn't just attack the Chicago Bull's loyalty....he did so by COMPARING IT TO THE ****ING HEAT's! That is what upset me. Do you get that now? Fred, and now you, are sitting there dry humping ancient Bulls history (wahhhhhh! Jordan! wahhhhhh! Jackson!) instead of wondering what the reason behind Wade's statements were in the first place. He didn't just say the Bulls were disloyal....he said they were disloyal compared to the Heat. The freaking stadium was half-full and they employ one or two ex-players....but apparently they are the shinning example of loyalty in the NBA in Wade's eyes. What's more stupid? "Crying" about what Wade said or buying it hook, line and sinker? (*cough*, *cough*, YOU!,*cough*...) Doug meant that Wade was so clearly speaking out of his ass that we should just ignore him, not dignify his comments with a response.......and certainly not AGREE with him.

...by the way, put down the comics? No, sir I will not. I make comics and consider them an art form. What do you produce...besides shit and CO2? Right...personal trainer. Dumbells and HGH....got it. Man, man, manly, man....

3# Yes. Larry Hughes on crack. A guy who will chuck bad shots because he thinks he's entitled. Remember Larry doing that? Now imagine that times ten....hence "Larry Hughes on crack". This guy, McGrady, used to be a star and now he can barely move a fraction of the same way he used to, yet has the same mentality as an all-star. Get it.....or do I need to break out the crayons and draw you a picture?

4# Not dating Lou....but it's funny when simple minded people can't think of any good intelligent responses we get into the homophobic comments. Is that all you're mongoloid mind has to offer? The Lou thing was a joke...but if you rally want to size me up, you're off by about 40 pounds. Better yet, if you want to size me up, here's my Facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/evilhoban

I don't care how big you are, how hard you train, how many 'roids you shoot into your ass.... You don't scare me.


Actually, I'm betting WE should have our own podcast show. I could take your arguments down every episode and you can chase me around out of frustration with your manly cave-man club. WHADUYASAY?!!!!

 

[houheffna]

2. Maybe you missed the part on Doug's show where he said crying about what Wade said was stupid. It's a business, what don't you get? It seems like Houheffna was the only guy on these boards who saw Wade's visit for what it was. None of these guys ever considered Chicago. They were probably laughing the whole time while we traded away one of our best players in Kirk. but wade did us a favor with his loyalty comments, because A TON OF PEOPLE think the Bulls weren't loyal to MJ, Pippen, Jackson, and Grant, including me. Wade couldn't say that about New York. That opionion is there and there are good arguments for it. Yeah, they didn't NEED the loyalty, but they DESERVED it, more than Pete Myers or Randy Brown. but I'm fine with it. It's a business. Put down your comic books and grow up. I hope Rose does the same thing when he's a free agent.

I disagree with you on certain points here. They should have traded Kirk, and are better for it. Though Kirk was undervalued on this forum, to the point that its nonsensical, he was expendable. This Kirk hate is a direct result of them getting rid of a player that is overvalued on this forum...don't fool yourself. Its petulance to the hilt, and it should have been stopped. But Hinrich is gone. The Bulls have a better guard rotation because of it. Brewer has more upside than Kirk. Kirk at 4-5mil? I would love it. But at his current contract, he should be gone, and Deng behind him.

The Bulls were very loyal to Jordan and Pippen. What you and others have to consider is that maybe Reinsdorf wasn't such a big fan of those guys. They were valued employees to him. Jordan was a franchise player and Pippen was the great sidekick. But it was business. I am shocked that nobody remembers Reinsdorf getting Jordan his own personal dream baseball camp? I don't remember people accusing Jordan of quitting on his team like they accuse Reinsdorf of doing. Jordan walking away was far more costly in 1993 than Reinsdorf supposedly breaking up the dynasty in 1998. Jordan couldn't play baseball by the way, Bo Jackson he ain't. But Reinsdorf did what he could to fulfill Jordan's dreams. And paid Jordan his full NBA contract the whole time.

Pippen was brought back way past his prime and got 5mil a year. They didn't seem to hesitate. He was injured for a good deal of that contract and was no good to the team on the floor, but they paid him anyway. Those are the players Wade was talking about. Loyalty to Horace? Where was loyalty to the organization from him? Jordan raised holy hell when Grant was drafted and gave Grant a very hard time early in his career.

Horace's dislike for the Bulls organization was strong, but his dislike for Jordan was strong as well.

With all of that done, why didn't Jordan speak up? Because at the end he didn't get his way? He has spoken with gratitude in the past concerning Reinsdorf and how he was treated by Reinsdorf, that is ignored however. He is not in the Bulls front office and no, HELL NO, he is not entitled to it. The team was brought legally and Reinsdorf has no obligation to Jordan, Pippen or anyone else to give them part of the team.

If the Yankees and Lakers lived by those standards, their owners would be minority owners. By the way, nobody questions why Magic, Worthy, Kareem, West, Baylor, Wilt are not part owners of the Lakers, or their family in the case of Wilt? Nobody questions the loyalties of Jerry Buss? But Reinsdorf DESERVES to have his loyalty questioned, because its of certain opinions that Reinsdorf should be nicer to Jordan and Pippen than other players? That is ludicrous.

The fact is, Cartwright needed Reinsdorf, Randy Brown needed Reinsdorf. In their hours of need, Reinsdorf helped them, that is commendable. Rumor has it that Reinsdorf has helped Pippen "under the table" through his financial problems...nobody talks about that. This is all about Jordan not being in a box in the UC for every Bulls game. He wanted ownership of the team!!! Majority Ownership! Reinsdorf wants his family to have the team...so would I! WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH THAT?????

That said, we do agree on Wade's intentions while in town. It will come out over time. I think he was on total b.s. I hope I am wrong, but I don't think so.

 

[evilhoban]

Hou-

I really don't think you're wrong about D-Wade. The guy is kind of a jerk...but if I was in his shoes and I saw the possibilities of two of my friends teaming up for a dynasty in Chicago without me, while I was stuck in a half-full stadium with SuperCoolBust....I don't know what I would do!

I also agree with you're points regarding Jordan and loyalty. I couldn't have stated that any better myself. Literally (obviously)....

 

[Bullsman24]

Hou, one correction: isn't magic a minority owner of the lakers? small deal but yeah

 

[houheffna]

Hou, one correction: isn't magic a minority owner of the lakers? small deal but yeah

Yes, and he is on the board, my point is do you think Jordan would have been happy with having an opinion on the board and a very small percentage of the team? I doubt it. Reinsdorf probably knows that Jordan would try to pressure his way into a larger share, and a larger say. Hell, look at how he acted as a player!

As stated before, I believe Magic brings a lot more to the table when it comes to business sense than Jordan does. I would rather have Magic buy a part of the Bulls than Jordan for business reasons.

So yeah, I knew about Magic....

 

[mlewinth]

evilhoban wrote:

1# You are wrong, sir. He did not shoot the ball well. I cringed every single time he was left wide open. Do you remember when he missed that wide open lay-up against Boston? UGH! Ronnie Brewer is a better defender than Hinrich as he can "lock down" and Kirk couldn't. As Fred said, Kirk is "fiesty"....but that's about it. I doubt losing Kirk is the reason we won't win the title this year, but thanks for playing!

2# I think LeBron and Bosh did consider Chicago more than Wade ever did. Yeah...you wouldn't consider having Noah, Rose, Gibson and Deng instead of Wade and whatever you can find on the NBA washed-up player scrap heap? I think the three of them have talked about it for years, but nothing was finalized. All three of the guys have their own egos and Wade got a bit nervous due to LeBron meeting the Bulls last in Ohio and him the talk of him coming here being all over ESPN. AND the Bulls did NOT bring Wade in twice. I believe he contacted the Bulls for the first meeting and went back on his own the second time as well.

Now this is the specific point I'm tired of arguing with everyone about because it seems that no matter how simple I break it down for some, you're just either too simple or too ignorant to mentally grasp the concept. He didn't just attack the Chicago Bull's loyalty....he did so by COMPARING IT TO THE ****ING HEAT's! That is what upset me. Do you get that now? Fred, and now you, are sitting there dry humping ancient Bulls history (wahhhhhh! Jordan! wahhhhhh! Jackson!) instead of wondering what the reason behind Wade's statements were in the first place. He didn't just say the Bulls were disloyal....he said they were disloyal compared to the Heat. The freaking stadium was half-full and they employ one or two ex-players....but apparently they are the shinning example of loyalty in the NBA in Wade's eyes. What's more stupid? "Crying" about what Wade said or buying it hook, line and sinker? (*cough*, *cough*, YOU!,*cough*...) Doug meant that Wade was so clearly speaking out of his ass that we should just ignore him, not dignify his comments with a response.......and certainly not AGREE with him.

...by the way, put down the comics? No, sir I will not. I make comics and consider them an art form. What do you produce...besides shit and CO2? Right...personal trainer. Dumbells and HGH....got it. Man, man, manly, man....

3# Yes. Larry Hughes on crack. A guy who will chuck bad shots because he thinks he's entitled. Remember Larry doing that? Now imagine that times ten....hence "Larry Hughes on crack". This guy, McGrady, used to be a star and now he can barely move a fraction of the same way he used to, yet has the same mentality as an all-star. Get it.....or do I need to break out the crayons and draw you a picture?

4# Not dating Lou....but it's funny when simple minded people can't think of any good intelligent responses we get into the homophobic comments. Is that all you're mongoloid mind has to offer? The Lou thing was a joke...but if you rally want to size me up, you're off by about 40 pounds. Better yet, if you want to size me up, here's my Facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/evilhoban

I don't care how big you are, how hard you train, how many 'roids you shoot into your ass.... You don't scare me.


Actually, I'm betting WE should have our own podcast show. I could take your arguments down every episode and you can chase me around out of frustration with your manly cave-man club. WHADUYASAY?!!!!

My thoughts

#1) Agree with evilhoban. Kirk was the most inconcistant high profile Bull ever. I feel his fg% (which sux) doesnt really represent him well either cause he didnt shoot 40.9% in most games. He shot either 60%, or 5% every night. Lets do some analysis. Hinrichs total fg% last year, 40.9%. Hinrich played in 74 games last year. # of games Hinrich shot under 35% ???= 27!! Thats 1/3rd of the season. His defense was fine for a dude whose 6'4. Brewer is better at D and is more consistent offensivly.

#2) Who cares? I measn seriously...who cares. You can ***** and argue about this, but you will never know Wades intentions.

#3) Very rude response by evilhobon. I think your comparison is a bit ridiculous. McGrady was a consistant all-star. Referring to him as Larry Hughes on crack is giving Larry Hughes WAAAAAY to much credit. McGrady is a much better player, passer, scorer...no comparison. Try picking another washed up all-star to compare him too... (Vince!?!?! noo.... Marbury...hmmmm....naaah McGrady was better....why not just don't compare him at all)


#4) I gotta say Emvp...you just got served. There was no reason to ask Evilhobon how much he weighs, or to make lobrow homosexual jokes. Everyone is entitiled to their own opinion, no matter who stupid it is. Asking hobon how much he weighs and inviting him to the gym to chat!?!?!......is this the steam room? is this chatting by the bench? on the track? Please clarify, as personally it sounded to me as if your asking him for a date? WHICH IS FINE! I DON'T JUDGE!!!

You guys gotta stop bitching with eachother like 5th graders...argue on Skype! Thats how real men get it done! Are you gonna do the show with us EMVP? Its gonna be a steel cage death match!

No reason

 

[mlewinth]

houheffna wrote:

2. Maybe you missed the part on Doug's show where he said crying about what Wade said was stupid. It's a business, what don't you get? It seems like Houheffna was the only guy on these boards who saw Wade's visit for what it was. None of these guys ever considered Chicago. They were probably laughing the whole time while we traded away one of our best players in Kirk. but wade did us a favor with his loyalty comments, because A TON OF PEOPLE think the Bulls weren't loyal to MJ, Pippen, Jackson, and Grant, including me. Wade couldn't say that about New York. That opionion is there and there are good arguments for it. Yeah, they didn't NEED the loyalty, but they DESERVED it, more than Pete Myers or Randy Brown. but I'm fine with it. It's a business. Put down your comic books and grow up. I hope Rose does the same thing when he's a free agent.

I disagree with you on certain points here. They should have traded Kirk, and are better for it. Though Kirk was undervalued on this forum, to the point that its nonsensical, he was expendable. This Kirk hate is a direct result of them getting rid of a player that is overvalued on this forum...don't fool yourself. Its petulance to the hilt, and it should have been stopped. But Hinrich is gone. The Bulls have a better guard rotation because of it. Brewer has more upside than Kirk. Kirk at 4-5mil? I would love it. But at his current contract, he should be gone, and Deng behind him.

The Bulls were very loyal to Jordan and Pippen. What you and others have to consider is that maybe Reinsdorf wasn't such a big fan of those guys. They were valued employees to him. Jordan was a franchise player and Pippen was the great sidekick. But it was business. I am shocked that nobody remembers Reinsdorf getting Jordan his own personal dream baseball camp? I don't remember people accusing Jordan of quitting on his team like they accuse Reinsdorf of doing. Jordan walking away was far more costly in 1993 than Reinsdorf supposedly breaking up the dynasty in 1998. Jordan couldn't play baseball by the way, Bo Jackson he ain't. But Reinsdorf did what he could to fulfill Jordan's dreams. And paid Jordan his full NBA contract the whole time.

Pippen was brought back way past his prime and got 5mil a year. They didn't seem to hesitate. He was injured for a good deal of that contract and was no good to the team on the floor, but they paid him anyway. Those are the players Wade was talking about. Loyalty to Horace? Where was loyalty to the organization from him? Jordan raised holy hell when Grant was drafted and gave Grant a very hard time early in his career.

Horace's dislike for the Bulls organization was strong, but his dislike for Jordan was strong as well.

With all of that done, why didn't Jordan speak up? Because at the end he didn't get his way? He has spoken with gratitude in the past concerning Reinsdorf and how he was treated by Reinsdorf, that is ignored however. He is not in the Bulls front office and no, HELL NO, he is not entitled to it. The team was brought legally and Reinsdorf has no obligation to Jordan, Pippen or anyone else to give them part of the team.

If the Yankees and Lakers lived by those standards, their owners would be minority owners. By the way, nobody questions why Magic, Worthy, Kareem, West, Baylor, Wilt are not part owners of the Lakers, or their family in the case of Wilt? Nobody questions the loyalties of Jerry Buss? But Reinsdorf DESERVES to have his loyalty questioned, because its of certain opinions that Reinsdorf should be nicer to Jordan and Pippen than other players? That is ludicrous.

The fact is, Cartwright needed Reinsdorf, Randy Brown needed Reinsdorf. In their hours of need, Reinsdorf helped them, that is commendable. Rumor has it that Reinsdorf has helped Pippen "under the table" through his financial problems...nobody talks about that. This is all about Jordan not being in a box in the UC for every Bulls game. He wanted ownership of the team!!! Majority Ownership! Reinsdorf wants his family to have the team...so would I! WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH THAT?????

That said, we do agree on Wade's intentions while in town. It will come out over time. I think he was on total b.s. I hope I am wrong, but I don't think so.

Agree 100%. Jordan is the best Bull in history. Reisdorf is a business man and owns a business. Do you think the top sales person at Microsoft get's the company when their career is over? (If the answer is "yes" then I can see the argument)

 

[Shakes]

mlewinth wrote:

Do you think the top sales person at Microsoft get's the company when their career is over? (If the answer is "yes" then I can see the argument)

Well Steve Balmer did get to be CEO after Bill Gates decided to retire ...

 

[houheffna]

Well I am sure Mr. Balmer was well qualified if given the reigns. He wasn't just a superstar sales person...I thought that was a great analogy by Mark, I should have thought of that earlier. Now you got me googling this Balmer person...

 

[evilhoban]

mlewinth wrote:

evilhoban wrote:

1# You are wrong, sir. He did not shoot the ball well. I cringed every single time he was left wide open. Do you remember when he missed that wide open lay-up against Boston? UGH! Ronnie Brewer is a better defender than Hinrich as he can "lock down" and Kirk couldn't. As Fred said, Kirk is "fiesty"....but that's about it. I doubt losing Kirk is the reason we won't win the title this year, but thanks for playing!

2# I think LeBron and Bosh did consider Chicago more than Wade ever did. Yeah...you wouldn't consider having Noah, Rose, Gibson and Deng instead of Wade and whatever you can find on the NBA washed-up player scrap heap? I think the three of them have talked about it for years, but nothing was finalized. All three of the guys have their own egos and Wade got a bit nervous due to LeBron meeting the Bulls last in Ohio and him the talk of him coming here being all over ESPN. AND the Bulls did NOT bring Wade in twice. I believe he contacted the Bulls for the first meeting and went back on his own the second time as well.

Now this is the specific point I'm tired of arguing with everyone about because it seems that no matter how simple I break it down for some, you're just either too simple or too ignorant to mentally grasp the concept. He didn't just attack the Chicago Bull's loyalty....he did so by COMPARING IT TO THE ****ING HEAT's! That is what upset me. Do you get that now? Fred, and now you, are sitting there dry humping ancient Bulls history (wahhhhhh! Jordan! wahhhhhh! Jackson!) instead of wondering what the reason behind Wade's statements were in the first place. He didn't just say the Bulls were disloyal....he said they were disloyal compared to the Heat. The freaking stadium was half-full and they employ one or two ex-players....but apparently they are the shinning example of loyalty in the NBA in Wade's eyes. What's more stupid? "Crying" about what Wade said or buying it hook, line and sinker? (*cough*, *cough*, YOU!,*cough*...) Doug meant that Wade was so clearly speaking out of his ass that we should just ignore him, not dignify his comments with a response.......and certainly not AGREE with him.

...by the way, put down the comics? No, sir I will not. I make comics and consider them an art form. What do you produce...besides shit and CO2? Right...personal trainer. Dumbells and HGH....got it. Man, man, manly, man....

3# Yes. Larry Hughes on crack. A guy who will chuck bad shots because he thinks he's entitled. Remember Larry doing that? Now imagine that times ten....hence "Larry Hughes on crack". This guy, McGrady, used to be a star and now he can barely move a fraction of the same way he used to, yet has the same mentality as an all-star. Get it.....or do I need to break out the crayons and draw you a picture?

4# Not dating Lou....but it's funny when simple minded people can't think of any good intelligent responses we get into the homophobic comments. Is that all you're mongoloid mind has to offer? The Lou thing was a joke...but if you rally want to size me up, you're off by about 40 pounds. Better yet, if you want to size me up, here's my Facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/evilhoban

I don't care how big you are, how hard you train, how many 'roids you shoot into your ass.... You don't scare me.


Actually, I'm betting WE should have our own podcast show. I could take your arguments down every episode and you can chase me around out of frustration with your manly cave-man club. WHADUYASAY?!!!!

My thoughts

#1) Agree with evilhoban. Kirk was the most inconcistant high profile Bull ever. I feel his fg% (which sux) doesnt really represent him well either cause he didnt shoot 40.9% in most games. He shot either 60%, or 5% every night. Lets do some analysis. Hinrichs total fg% last year, 40.9%. Hinrich played in 74 games last year. # of games Hinrich shot under 35% ???= 27!! Thats 1/3rd of the season. His defense was fine for a dude whose 6'4. Brewer is better at D and is more consistent offensivly.

#2) Who cares? I measn seriously...who cares. You can ***** and argue about this, but you will never know Wades intentions.

#3) Very rude response by evilhobon. I think your comparison is a bit ridiculous. McGrady was a consistant all-star. Referring to him as Larry Hughes on crack is giving Larry Hughes WAAAAAY to much credit. McGrady is a much better player, passer, scorer...no comparison. Try picking another washed up all-star to compare him too... (Vince!?!?! noo.... Marbury...hmmmm....naaah McGrady was better....why not just don't compare him at all)


#4) I gotta say Emvp...you just got served. There was no reason to ask Evilhobon how much he weighs, or to make lobrow homosexual jokes. Everyone is entitiled to their own opinion, no matter who stupid it is. Asking hobon how much he weighs and inviting him to the gym to chat!?!?!......is this the steam room? is this chatting by the bench? on the track? Please clarify, as personally it sounded to me as if your asking him for a date? WHICH IS FINE! I DON'T JUDGE!!!

You guys gotta stop bitching with eachother like 5th graders...argue on Skype! Thats how real men get it done! Are you gonna do the show with us EMVP? Its gonna be a steel cage death match!

No reason

Okay, Mark....

#2 Well....I care. Obviously....


#3 (sigh)I will concede that maybe "Larry Hughes on crack" isn't the most eloquent way to describe McGrady. I have a feeling that I would feel similar about them and he would do 10 times the damage to our team. Hughes took tons of bad shots, thought he was better than he was, and was a mild distraction when he was unhappy. I see McGrady doing the same to a greater extent. Of course McGrady was a much better player than Hughes ever was. My point was that we wouldn't be getting the All-Star McGrady and he would be as effective as Larry Hughes....and, if things went south, he would probably tweet his displeasure everywhere and have it all over ESPN because he still has the recognition....hence a bigger distraction. That is my opinion. Is that better?

Also....I think it's funny how in this day and age arguing on skype is the ultimate way to prove your testicular fortitude, while driving 500 miles and confronting someone face to face is seen as bitching and having a lack of nuts. Gotta love the digital age!!!!