Chicago Bears select WR Kevin White 7th overall in the 2015 NFL Draft

[playthrough2001]

^^^^^We'll never know but if Pace had a choice between the 2, who would he have taken?

Pace said he took the top guy on his board at every pick so my guess is he would have taken Williams. You're right though, we'll never know for sure.

 

[RealtreeByGod]

Signed up with this forum to address White and WVU's offense, since there's not much to see of him aside from his highlights and a few game tapes. I've seen every snap he's played over the past two years and I highly doubt there are any Bears fans on here who are also fanatical WVU fans.

Since everyone seems to worry about his limited route tree and him lining up on only the right side of the formation, here's the explanation for that. For as long as he's been an offensive coordinator, Dana Holgorsen has always had his #1 WR line-up on the same side as his QB's dominant hand. He did it with Justin Blackmon, did it with Michael Crabtree, did it with Stedman Bailey, the only WR I can recall that moved around alot is Tavon Austin, and he's the exception because of his versatility. His reasoning for that is to develop a better rapport between the QB and WR and make the game easier on both of them. There's only about 15-20 plays in Holgorsens playbook, but there's alot of different options and reads the QB and WRs have to make on the fly (there's a a run-pass read built in to almost every play and the WR normally has 3-4 different route options to run based on the defense's coverage), and there's tons of different personnel groups and formations they're ran out of. Having that one constant helps the QB make quicker reads knowing exactly where his #1 guy is at all times and helps the WR in knowing when and were he'll get the ball.

As far as White's route tree goes, here's mostly what he ran:

*2 screens. 1 was what I call a "tunnel screen" (no idea what the actual name is). Where he fires straight down the line of scrimmage, the center, right guard, and right tackle all go second level immediately, and depending on how it's picked up he either has the option to cut across the field and bounce it outside or slice between one of the lineman and cut it up (go watch his Maryland highlight, it's the play he scored a 60-yard TD on). The other was a classic WR screen (yet again no idea what most people call it. I've always referred to it as x-ray, because that's what it was called by my team when I played highschool ball), where he'd take a hard jab, face the QB, catch the ball, and turn up field following the other WRs blocking for him.
*9-route / fly / vertical / whatever the hell you want to call it. Normally had an outside release, had the option to come back towards the sideline or curl and sit in a gap in the coverage, but if he had 1-on-1 and no safety help, he was goin' deep every time with it. Most plays had a hot route option built in, where he'd go deep if he had 1-on-1, regardless of what was originally called. If he did have 1-on-1 running a nine, and the ball was well-thrown, he either caught it or was interfered. I don't think I ever remember him dropping one.
*Both 5 and 10-yard curls and 15-yard comebacks. Don't know how many were called vs how many were optioned into. I know alot of people say he needs to work on his curls, he wastes too much time chopping or his hips aren't fluid enough. But I also know he got open alot in college doing them, of course alot of that can be probably be attributed to other teams being terrified of him going deep, but that's a different story. He was also very good at getting extra yards on curls. Even in fairly tight coverage, he was able to slip out of tackles and get up field fast.
*Slants and posts. Didn't run 'em as much as the first three, but they were done occasionally. I've heard complaints that he rounds them instead of cutting them sharp, but makes up for it with his size and speed.
*Drags and shallow crosses. Yet again, not much, but they were there. We had problems with pass-protection, especially at tackle late in the year, so alot of the slower stuff over the middle was scrapped in favor of more quick-hitting curls, screens, and designed flys.
*Things I didn't see him run (at least not to my memory): fish-tails, post-corners, stop and go routes, routes with double moves, outs. It's not that he can't run 'em, it's just not part of the offense. Never was. Even Stedman Bailey, who was by far and above the best route-running WR a Holgorsen offense has ever had only did them sparingly.

As far as people worried that he's only a two-year player, here's my take. He only played highschool ball for a year or two, sat the bench his first year at Lackawanna and played well his second, was an average player who showed flashes his first year at WVU (was also mired with poor QB play that year, had one who dirtballed everything, one who had 2 starts panicked the first time he saw pressure and was shut down after he tore his pec muscle, and one who never grasped the offense and tore his labrum in his first start), and was arguably the best WR in college football in his second year. By all accounts he has a great attitude on and off the field, plays agressively and violently every play, works his ass off in the weight room and in practice, and responds very to coaching (as evidenced by his huge leap after his first full year in the program). He's already at a very high level with less than two years of quality coaching. If he's good enough to be a consensus top-10 pick with that little coaching, imagine the upside he has with NFL coaching on a team with a veteran QB and paired with a very good young WR in Alshon Jeffery.

 

[Jailbreak]

^^^^^We'll never know but if Pace had a choice between the 2, who would he have taken?

Williams, but that's just a testament to him. I don't think White is going to disappoint many fans.

 

[Jailbreak]

Signed up with this forum to address White and WVU's offense, since there's not much to see of him aside from his highlights and a few game tapes. I've seen every snap he's played over the past two years and I highly doubt there are any Bears fans on here who are also fanatical WVU fans.

Since everyone seems to worry about his limited route tree and him lining up on only the right side of the formation, here's the explanation for that. For as long as he's been an offensive coordinator, Dana Holgorsen has always had his #1 WR line-up on the same side as his QB's dominant hand. He did it with Justin Blackmon, did it with Michael Crabtree, did it with Stedman Bailey, the only WR I can recall that moved around alot is Tavon Austin, and he's the exception because of his versatility. His reasoning for that is to develop a better rapport between the QB and WR and make the game easier on both of them. There's only about 15-20 plays in Holgorsens playbook, but there's alot of different options and reads the QB and WRs have to make on the fly (there's a a run-pass read built in to almost every play and the WR normally has 3-4 different route options to run based on the defense's coverage), and there's tons of different personnel groups and formations they're ran out of. Having that one constant helps the QB make quicker reads knowing exactly where his #1 guy is at all times and helps the WR in knowing when and were he'll get the ball.

As far as White's route tree goes, here's mostly what he ran:

*2 screens. 1 was what I call a "tunnel screen" (no idea what the actual name is). Where he fires straight down the line of scrimmage, the center, right guard, and right tackle all go second level immediately, and depending on how it's picked up he either has the option to cut across the field and bounce it outside or slice between one of the lineman and cut it up (go watch his Maryland highlight, it's the play he scored a 60-yard TD on). The other was a classic WR screen (yet again no idea what most people call it. I've always referred to it as x-ray, because that's what it was called by my team when I played highschool ball), where he'd take a hard jab, face the QB, catch the ball, and turn up field following the other WRs blocking for him.
*9-route / fly / vertical / whatever the hell you want to call it. Normally had an outside release, had the option to come back towards the sideline or curl and sit in a gap in the coverage, but if he had 1-on-1 and no safety help, he was goin' deep every time with it. Most plays had a hot route option built in, where he'd go deep if he had 1-on-1, regardless of what was originally called. If he did have 1-on-1 running a nine, and the ball was well-thrown, he either caught it or was interfered. I don't think I ever remember him dropping one.
*Both 5 and 10-yard curls and 15-yard comebacks. Don't know how many were called vs how many were optioned into. I know alot of people say he needs to work on his curls, he wastes too much time chopping or his hips aren't fluid enough. But I also know he got open alot in college doing them, of course alot of that can be probably be attributed to other teams being terrified of him going deep, but that's a different story. He was also very good at getting extra yards on curls. Even in fairly tight coverage, he was able to slip out of tackles and get up field fast.
*Slants and posts. Didn't run 'em as much as the first three, but they were done occasionally. I've heard complaints that he rounds them instead of cutting them sharp, but makes up for it with his size and speed.
*Drags and shallow crosses. Yet again, not much, but they were there. We had problems with pass-protection, especially at tackle late in the year, so alot of the slower stuff over the middle was scrapped in favor of more quick-hitting curls, screens, and designed flys.
*Things I didn't see him run (at least not to my memory): fish-tails, post-corners, stop and go routes, routes with double moves, outs. It's not that he can't run 'em, it's just not part of the offense. Never was. Even Stedman Bailey, who was by far and above the best route-running WR a Holgorsen offense has ever had only did them sparingly.

As far as people worried that he's only a two-year player, here's my take. He only played highschool ball for a year or two, sat the bench his first year at Lackawanna and played well his second, was an average player who showed flashes his first year at WVU (was also mired with poor QB play that year, had one who dirtballed everything, one who had 2 starts panicked the first time he saw pressure and was shut down after he tore his pec muscle, and one who never grasped the offense and tore his labrum in his first start), and was arguably the best WR in college football in his second year. By all accounts he has a great attitude on and off the field, plays agressively and violently every play, works his ass off in the weight room and in practice, and responds very to coaching (as evidenced by his huge leap after his first full year in the program). He's already at a very high level with less than two years of quality coaching. If he's good enough to be a consensus top-10 pick with that little coaching, imagine the upside he has with NFL coaching on a team with a veteran QB and paired with a very good young WR in Alshon Jeffery.

His strength is not a bubble screen. He can play with leverage outside. Leave the screens for Royal. He's a classic outside WR and if any db doesn't think he's physical, they'll find out soon enough.

 

[gwharris2254]

Thats a nice writeup for a first post, now give us a couple hundred more.......... pls

 

[The Hawk]

It's all emotion with you, you can tell by your heavy flow all over the message board.

You are one of those gomers that gets infuriated when the Bear's don't pick who YOU want, then goes on and on and on about it for days. Happens every year.

These players haven't even put an NFL jersey on yet, so don't try to blow smoke up my ass about who won the draft less than 24 hours after it has concluded.

In short, stop your fucking bleeding.

Keep drinking the kool-aid..........you sure told me! Hilarious how upset you get if someone doesn't drink it like you do. Grow the **** up.

 

[The Hawk]

Quote Originally Posted by PAPABEAR77 View Post
I am not trying to insult you just pointing out you knowledge of football is lacking as your posts on our draft suggests so. I suggest if you want to call yourself hawk ( obviously your not hence my last post) stick to baseball cause your knowledge maybe better .......

To PAPABEAR ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


All I was responding to was your tone toward me. You happened to be one of the more level headed people on the board in my estimation. One I would call a serious poster, not a flamer trying to be funny or insulting. I can respect people disagreeing with me on anything and do the same to them because none of us are correct all of the time, particularly about a sport in which none of us are as saavy as the people being paid to make decisions.

YOu can question my knowledge of football all that you want but I then would have to question yours. So where does that leave us, huh? As to why I call myself, Hawk, that goes back many many years in my high school and college career. It also has nothing to do with Hawk Harrelson. You are correct about one thing, though, PapaB, I am more knowledgeable about baseball than football but I do know a bit about football also.

By the way, perhaps you might think about what PAPABEAR77 implies


As for this below:

He hasn't watched any of White's tape. He just hates the idea of White.

Not recruited out of high school. JUCO transfer to a 2nd tier football program which plays the likes of Georgia Southern, Liberty, Maryland, and Iowa State. Sure the guy put up great stats for ONE SINGLE SEASON. That gives me pause that he hasn't matched up against real corners. That tells me that the elite programs in the country ignored him. This also tells me that the RISK taking this guy in the first round was great and Pace will have only a few bullets of credibility left if this guy proves to be a bust.

 

[Newblood]

Keep drinking the kool-aid..........you sure told me! Hilarious how upset you get if someone doesn't drink it like you do. Grow the **** up.

Keep making unsubstantiated claims and moronic conclusions. I couldn't give a shit about your stupid ass opinions. Each one of your posts continually proves you have no fucking clue what you are talking about, so I don't take them seriously. The only thing I get "upset" about is your insistent whinging all over the message board like a little kid that didn't their way. Talk about needing to grew the **** up.

Plenty of people on here don't like one pick or another, they state they don't like them, they state why and they move on, and myself and others mostly accept that. But no, you feel the need to be a little ***** and go on and on about it. The shits tiring and annoying. Posters have pointed out the flaws in your claims, but you just close your eyes to that and keep beating the drum.

Maybe next you can just hold your breath and stomp your feet and show the Bears organization how serious you are and how serious you should be taken.

Edit: I love how you continue to hinge your arguement around the first 3 games of their schedule. News flash skippy, nearly every major football program schedules tuneup games for their first 2-3 games, that isn't unusually and isn't the only teams that White put big numbers up against.

 

[Wild_x_Card]

His strength is not a bubble screen. He can play with leverage outside. Leave the screens for Royal. He's a classic outside WR and if any db doesn't think he's physical, they'll find out soon enough.

Wat? 40 of his 109 catches came off of the screen game. Its very much a strength of his. RAC is a big part of his game.

Adam Gase also used Demaryius Thomas in the screen game A TON in Denver.

It will be no different here with White in Chicago.

It's a great way to get a young receiver comfortable and involved.

 

[fatbeard]

Not recruited out of high school. JUCO transfer to a 2nd tier football program which plays the likes of Georgia Southern, Liberty, Maryland, and Iowa State. Sure the guy put up great stats for ONE SINGLE SEASON. That gives me pause that he hasn't matched up against real corners. That tells me that the elite programs in the country ignored him

So? Aaron Rodgers wasn't recruited out of high school. Roethlisberger couldn't get the time of day from Ohio St. and had to play in the MAC at Miami OH. Khalil Mack went to Buffalo. Fucking Buffalo. Aaron Donald played in a weak conference and was nationally unknown prior to his senior year. Kyle Long bombed out of Florida St. and had to restart his career playing at Saddleback Community College and played about 12 minutes of football at Oregon before he was drafted. Dontari Poe played in C-USA. None of those guys was even a four star recruit. The fact that you think you're making some kind of salient point here is hilarious.

This also tells me that the RISK taking this guy in the first round was great and Pace will have only a few bullets of credibility left if this guy proves to be a bust.

So the guy talking about credibility is the same one criticizing a pick when he hasn't watched a shred of tape. Just stop, create a new user name, and start over. You've burned this one.

 

[Mitchapalooza]

So? Aaron Rodgers wasn't recruited out of high school. Roethlisberger couldn't get the time of day from Ohio St. and had to play in the MAC at Miami OH. Khalil Mack went to Buffalo. Fucking Buffalo. Aaron Donald played in a weak conference and was nationally unknown prior to his senior year. Kyle Long bombed out of Florida St. and had to restart his career playing at Saddleback Community College and played about 12 minutes of football at Oregon before he was drafted. Dontari Poe played in C-USA. None of those guys was even a four star recruit. The fact that you think you're making some kind of salient point here is hilarious.



So the guy talking about credibility is the same one criticizing a pick when he hasn't watched a shred of tape. Just stop, create a new user name, and start over. You've burned this one.

 

[TheDane]

Wat? 40 of his 109 catches came off of the screen game. Its very much a strength of his. RAC is a big part of his game.

Adam Gase also used Demaryius Thomas in the screen game A TON in Denver.

It will be no different here with White in Chicago.

It's a great way to get a young receiver comfortable and involved.

I compltely agree with this.

Also, someone saying that the screen game is a strength of White's isn't the same as saying, that it's the only way we're going to be using him. Of course it's not. But when it's a strength of his to generate yards after the catch, it'd be stupid not to design a screen for him here and there.

 

[Jailbreak]

Wat? 40 of his 109 catches came off of the screen game. Its very much a strength of his. RAC is a big part of his game.

Adam Gase also used Demaryius Thomas in the screen game A TON in Denver.

It will be no different here with White in Chicago.

It's a great way to get a young receiver comfortable and involved.

If you want him to be a screen guy, OK.

 

[Jailbreak]

I expect White to get a few screens, but I think it's wasteful to use him much with that. They have Forte and Royal.

 

[WarLax]

I expect White to get a few screens, but I think it's wasteful to use him much with that. They have Forte and Royal.

Considering we are all envisioning White being used in the screen game similarly to how Gase used DT in Denver's offense...I'm going to go with no.

 

[Jailbreak]

You can go no. I don't really care. I wouldn't have drafted this kid to run screen routes.

 

[TheDane]

I expect White to get a few screens, but I think it's wasteful to use him much with that. They have Forte and Royal.

If it turns out it doesn't work, it's wasteful. If it turns out he's able to get 1st downs pretty easily by doing it, it's not wasteful.

But of course the vast majority of his targets won't be on screens.

 

[Wild_x_Card]

If you want him to be a screen guy, OK.

Woosh, read Dane's post above. When you have a Wr that transitions into a RB after the catch, you'd be stupid not to use him in that manner.

It's not about what you or I want. It's more about what Gase will do.

Let this sink in: White averaged 15 yards per catch. 1/3 of his catches came at or near the line of scrimmage. That's a mind bogging average when you factor the above circumstances.

 

[Jailbreak]

Woosh, read Dane's post above. When you have a Wr that transitions into a RB after the catch, you'd be stupid not to use him in that manner.

It's not about what you or I want. It's more about what Gase will do.

Let this sink in: White averaged 15 yards per catch. 1/3 of his catches came at or near the line of scrimmage. That's a mind bogging average when you factor the above circumstances.

I think I grasped that the first time.

 

[Wild_x_Card]

You can go no. I don't really care. I wouldn't have drafted this kid to run screen routes.

I think I grasped that the first time.

I beg to differ