Chicago Bullseye 101: Rank the Coaching Candidates

[clonetrooper264]

Re:Chicago Bullseye 101: Rank the Coaching Candida

pinkizdead wrote:

clonetrooper264 wrote:

Diddy1122 wrote:

Ummm...wasn't this a thread about coaching canidates? Last I heard BG is still playing, unless he retired after one bad season to throw his hat in the coaching ring.

Everything on this board comes back to Gordon. Didn't you notice the site was renamed to bengordonpodcasters.com? :laugh:

i believe it was the hinrichhaters.com

No no no, that's Fred's personal website.

 

[houheffna]

Re:Chicago Bullseye 101: Rank the Coaching Candida

I can dig it with Scott...he had a good relationship with Paul, not so much with Kidd. At least from what I have read...but I don't think Scott would be my first choice.

If this was a more veteran team, Cheeks might be the best choice. But the team is too young so accountability is a very important trait.

Again with the college coaches, forget that...I am surprised that any Bulls fan would want a coach with little or no NBA experience. Calipari would only get the nod if Lebron was coming with them, otherwise he can stay down in Lexington. He is the new Dean Smith to me. He is not as good a coach as Izzo or even Coach K, but he breeds NBA players like they're horses...so let him keep his NBA factory down in Kentucky.

 

[TheStig]

Re:Chicago Bullseye 101: Rank the Coaching Candida

Fred wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Fred, is that team really any different than this years heat team? MJ had a better year than Wade ever did. Sellers pretty much is MB. Oakley is better than JO at this point. And pax is better than any PG on the heat. The heat were a 5 seed and won a couple more games. Is spolestra some kinda coaching genius. I'd also like to point out again that both the bulls and pistons had a better record the year after he left. Also, despite having a top 5 player for most of his coaching career, he has only made it out of the first round a couple of times. I don't see this coaching genius that Collins has. I think he has overachieved a couple of times in the regular season and has underachieved in the playoffs.

The 1986-87 season was also known as the "Golden Era" of the NBA. The 1987 NBA season featured up to 20 Hall of Fame players such as Magic Johnson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, James Worthy, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Moses Malone, Julius Erving, Isiah Thomas, Dominique Wilkins, Charles Barkley, Hakeem Olajuwon, Clyde Drexler, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Alex English, Patrick Ewing, Adrian Dantley, and Joe Dumars. - wikipedia

All those players were competing in a smaller league, so they faced these better teams more often. How many Hall of Famers are playing in the Eastern Conference this year, at or close to their prime? You can't compare the Heat's #5 seed this year to the Bulls #8 seed in 87. For one, there were only 11 teams in the Eastern Conference, and the teams were much more talented in the East in that era. It was a buzzsaw...yet somehow the Bulls won 40 games.

There are plenty of hall of famers playing now. Kobe, Bron, Howard, CP3, Duncan, Nash, Shaq, AI, KG, Wade and fringe guys like Dirk, Melo, PP, Allen, Hill. Maybe not quite as much but it isn't a dead period either.

The league may have been deeper but the previous year the bulls made the playoffs with 30 wins so don't tell me how strong the ec was. Also with only 11 teams in the ec over 75% made the playoffs, so despite the buzz saw it was, its still a lot more likely than it is today with only about half the teams making it.

 

[houheffna]

Re:Chicago Bullseye 101: Rank the Coaching Candida

There are plenty of hall of famers playing now. Kobe, Bron, Howard, CP3, Duncan, Nash, Shaq, AI, KG, Wade and fringe guys like Dirk, Melo, PP, Allen, Hill. Maybe not quite as much but it isn't a dead period either.

The league may have been deeper but the previous year the bulls made the playoffs with 30 wins so don't tell me how strong the ec was. Also with only 11 teams in the ec over 75% made the playoffs, so despite the buzz saw it was, its still a lot more likely than it is today with only about half the teams making it.

I agree, THIS is the golden age of the NBA, not the late 1980's.

There was no Durants and definitely no Lebrons back then...Dirk is NOT a fringe guy, MVPs go to the HOF in the NBA...Pierce is in the hall of fame and so is Ray Allen. Bosh, Deron Williams, a bunch of players who are on their way to the HOF if their careers continue. Kobe and Lebron could both be in the top 5 all time in scoring.

Sellers has wet dreams about being Beasley...that was funny. Collins is very good at coaching, I believe he would have won a championship at least, if not more had he been allowed to stay. He was sabotaged though...but oh well.

 

[Shakes]

Re:Chicago Bullseye 101: Rank the Coaching Candida

houheffna wrote:

Are you arguing that demanding Deng stay in a possible trade with Kobe was sensible?

Why don't you ask Kobe about that, since he's the one who demanded it?

 

[houheffna]

Re:Chicago Bullseye 101: Rank the Coaching Candida

Why don't you ask Kobe about that, since he's the one who demanded it?

I don't think you understand the question, so let me help you...

There were a lot of people who didn't want to trade Deng for Kobe. Based on what he did in the 2006-07 season. It seemed to be an issue in this argument so I asked for clarification...

Capiche?

 

[Shakes]

Re:Chicago Bullseye 101: Rank the Coaching Candida

houheffna wrote:

Why don't you ask Kobe about that, since he's the one who demanded it?

I don't think you understand the question, so let me help you...

There were a lot of people who didn't want to trade Deng for Kobe. Based on what he did in the 2006-07 season. It seemed to be an issue in this argument so I asked for clarification...

Capiche?

Well considering you and Kobe are BFFs, I thought you could ask him, since apparently he was one of the Deng fans.

Capiche?

 

[houheffna]

Re:Chicago Bullseye 101: Rank the Coaching Candida

Well considering you and Kobe are BFFs, I thought you could ask him, since apparently he was one of the Deng fans.

Capiche?

I have good friends, none of them are Kobe Bryant...I don't know him nor am I going out of my way to know him. Just call it like I see it...I just like being right...

by the way, if Kobe was my BFF, I probably wouldn't bring it up on this forum, because I personally think "name dropping" is a form of low self esteem camouflaged by self-promotion...

Comprende?

 

[Shakes]

Re:Chicago Bullseye 101: Rank the Coaching Candida

houheffna wrote:

by the way, if Kobe was my BFF, I probably wouldn't bring it up on this forum, because I personally think "name dropping" is a form of low self esteem camouflaged by self-promotion...

Really? Because my good friend Bill Simmons says that name dropping is awesome.

 

[houheffna]

Re:Chicago Bullseye 101: Rank the Coaching Candida

Really? Because my good friend Bill Simmons says that name dropping is awesome.

Most sports journalists would agree with him...

 

[Fred]

Re:Chicago Bullseye 101: Rank the Coaching Candida

TheStig wrote:

Fred wrote:

TheStig wrote:

Fred, is that team really any different than this years heat team? MJ had a better year than Wade ever did. Sellers pretty much is MB. Oakley is better than JO at this point. And pax is better than any PG on the heat. The heat were a 5 seed and won a couple more games. Is spolestra some kinda coaching genius. I'd also like to point out again that both the bulls and pistons had a better record the year after he left. Also, despite having a top 5 player for most of his coaching career, he has only made it out of the first round a couple of times. I don't see this coaching genius that Collins has. I think he has overachieved a couple of times in the regular season and has underachieved in the playoffs.

The 1986-87 season was also known as the "Golden Era" of the NBA. The 1987 NBA season featured up to 20 Hall of Fame players such as Magic Johnson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, James Worthy, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Moses Malone, Julius Erving, Isiah Thomas, Dominique Wilkins, Charles Barkley, Hakeem Olajuwon, Clyde Drexler, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Alex English, Patrick Ewing, Adrian Dantley, and Joe Dumars. - wikipedia

All those players were competing in a smaller league, so they faced these better teams more often. How many Hall of Famers are playing in the Eastern Conference this year, at or close to their prime? You can't compare the Heat's #5 seed this year to the Bulls #8 seed in 87. For one, there were only 11 teams in the Eastern Conference, and the teams were much more talented in the East in that era. It was a buzzsaw...yet somehow the Bulls won 40 games.

There are plenty of hall of famers playing now. Kobe, Bron, Howard, CP3, Duncan, Nash, Shaq, AI, KG, Wade and fringe guys like Dirk, Melo, PP, Allen, Hill. Maybe not quite as much but it isn't a dead period either.

The league may have been deeper but the previous year the bulls made the playoffs with 30 wins so don't tell me how strong the ec was. Also with only 11 teams in the ec over 75% made the playoffs, so despite the buzz saw it was, its still a lot more likely than it is today with only about half the teams making it.

The question was, "How many Hall of Famers are playing in the Eastern Conference this year, at or close to their prime?" I like your list, but can you really argue that Ray Allen, Duncan, Shaq, AI, KG, and Paul Pierce are anywhere near their prime? Even if you could argue that there are more good players in their prime now, there are 30 teams as opposed to 23. The talent is far more dissipated than it was in 87. So my point is, the Bulls 40 victories in Doug Collins' first year is far more impressive then the Heat's #5 seed, especially when you consider how much stronger the Eastern Conference was overall in 1987.

 

[TheStig]

Re:Chicago Bullseye 101: Rank the Coaching Candida

Prime or no prime, we don't know who is or isn't a hof yet. Are you telling me a guy like Durant or Melo or even Rose have no chance at this point? Not all those young guys like MJ or Ewing or Barkley were surefire hofs in 87.

See I disagree with your point. With 23 teams and 11 in the east, more than 75% made the playoffs. Today thats about half, wheather the talent is spread out more or not doesn't make it more impressive. Don't you agree its easier to beat out 3 teams rather than 7 or 8?

 

[Fred]

Re:Chicago Bullseye 101: Rank the Coaching Candida

TheStig wrote:

Prime or no prime, we don't know who is or isn't a hof yet. Are you telling me a guy like Durant or Melo or even Rose have no chance at this point? Not all those young guys like MJ or Ewing or Barkley were surefire hofs in 87.

See I disagree with your point. With 23 teams and 11 in the east, more than 75% made the playoffs. Today thats about half, wheather the talent is spread out more or not doesn't make it more impressive. Don't you agree its easier to beat out 3 teams rather than 7 or 8?

It was Jordan and Oakley on that first Doug Collins Team. Every other player was average at best. For that team to win 40 games is a testament to MJ and a great coaching job by Collins. In a much tougher league, that was a much greater accomplishment than the Heat taking a 5 seed with 2 very good teams. I don't think the Magic or Cleveland can be considered All-Time great teams on par with the Celtics and Pistons of the late 80's.

 

[TheStig]

Re:Chicago Bullseye 101: Rank the Coaching Candida

I am not arguuing the strength of the top but the ease to get in. You only had to beat out 3 teams. The year before that a 30 win team made the playoffs whereas a couple of years ago our 33 win team won the lottery. I don't think it was tougher to make the playoffs, otherwise you would have had a 8 upset a 1 before 1994 if the quality was so high.

 

[Diddy1122]

Re:Chicago Bullseye 101: Rank the Coaching Candida

TheStig wrote:

I am not arguuing the strength of the top but the ease to get in. You only had to beat out 3 teams. The year before that a 30 win team made the playoffs whereas a couple of years ago our 33 win team won the lottery. I don't think it was tougher to make the playoffs, otherwise you would have had a 8 upset a 1 before 1994 if the quality was so high.

Fred is right. Comparing that team to the Heat or even that post-season to this year's is ridiculous. That season featured some of the greatest players all time at their respective positions. There were only 6 teams total with a record of 50+ wins, 4 of them in the Eastern Conference & 3 of those 4 in the Central Division (Atlanta, Detroit, & Milwaukee). The Central Division was the toughest division in basketball, with 5 of 6 teams making the post-season. Winning 10 more games & making the playoffs was not a walk in the park even with a healthy MJ. Sure a 30 win team could make the playoffs because there were only 23 teams but recording 40 wins, in the East especially, was no easy task.

What was most impressive to me is the leap in defense. We were the worst defensive team in the league in 85-86 & jumped to nearly the top 10 in Collins first year. By the following season we were in the top 3. Make no mistake Collins did a very good job with that young Bulls team & has done so wherever he's been, but as Fred stated, his refusal to run the triangle is what got him the axe here.

I would love him as our head coach (I'd rather have Scott or Cheeks though personally) but I'm fairly certain he will be coaching in Philadelphia next season. He told Marv on his last TNT broadcast that he will miss him. Seems like an odd thing to say if he wasn't coaching in the NBA next season.