Chicago Cubs (51-86) @ Pittsburgh Pirates (72-64) September 7-9

[dabynsky]

So Jaye Chapman is looking decent which is encourging since he was easily the worst prospect in the deadline haul, but it should be noted that the Cubs have a ton of tough 40 man decisions. And keeping Chapman on the 40 man roster is one less guy that can be protected so he needs to show something.

 

[2SeamHeat]

Nah, I think Brigham was by far the worst of the prospect haul at the deadline. I watched him here struggle on 3 different occasions to get one of the worst lineups in the Texas League out.

 

[Rice Cube]

Manny Corpas, on the other hand...

 

[dabynsky]

Nah, I think Brigham was by far the worst of the prospect haul at the deadline. I watched him here struggle on 3 different occasions to get one of the worst lineups in the Texas League out.

Seriously, I don't love Brigham but he has an outside chance at being a Rusin/Raley type 5th starter which is worth a tons more than a strike throwing soft tossing righty middle reliever. I think we agree about 1-2 in terms of the specs gotten at the deadline but I'm guessing we differ on 3-5 given these comments.

 

[2SeamHeat]

Seriously, I don't love Brigham but he has an outside chance at being a Rusin/Raley type 5th starter which is worth a tons more than a strike throwing soft tossing righty middle reliever. I think we agree about 1-2 in terms of the specs gotten at the deadline but I'm guessing we differ on 3-5 given these comments.

Sorry, I've seen Brigham pitch up close and personal... and from behind home plate. He's nothing to even ponder about. He has no chance at turning into a real MLB option. He can't even pitch at AA. He has nothing beyond his FB... and he can't even control his FB. Granted, I didn't think much of Chapman either, but he's at least showing some potential. He's put up good to excellent numbers in the minors the past two years overall, though he did stumble in Iowa. However, I didn't think he had the stuff to be all that effective coming out of the pen... primarily because his best pitch was said to be his slow FB. I basically wrote off both Brigham and Chapman upon getting them.

As for the others, I think Vizcaino was a huge haul... but a risky one in terms of the TJ issue. I like Villanueva a lot, but mainly because he could turn into another solid 2B prospect with an excellent glove and above-average bat. However, I think the sleeper is by far Hendricks. Reports show him as a control-oriented guy with 5-6 pitches and excellent command. He throws a bit soft too, but he seems to make up for it. He also attacks hitters. Wish I had the chance to see him here live in Midland with the Rangers' SL team Frisco.

 

[2SeamHeat]

Manny Corpas, on the other hand...

Yeah, I think it's time to stop with the Corpas experiment. That balk by Russel was only the 2nd by the pen this year... but wow was it poorly timed. Would have been nice to get a DP there... but oh well. So much for Rusin getting his first MLB win.

 

[dabynsky]

Sorry, I've seen Brigham pitch up close and personal... and from behind home plate. He's nothing to even ponder about. He has no chance at turning into a real MLB option. He can't even pitch at AA. He has nothing beyond his FB... and he can't even control his FB. Granted, I didn't think much of Chapman either, but he's at least showing some potential. He's put up good to excellent numbers in the minors the past two years overall, though he did stumble in Iowa. However, I didn't think he had the stuff to be all that effective coming out of the pen... primarily because his best pitch was said to be his slow FB. I basically wrote off both Brigham and Chapman upon getting them.

As for the others, I think Vizcaino was a huge haul... but a risky one in terms of the TJ issue. I like Villanueva a lot, but mainly because he could turn into another solid 2B prospect with an excellent glove and above-average bat. However, I think the sleeper is by far Hendricks. Reports show him as a control-oriented guy with 5-6 pitches and excellent command. He throws a bit soft too, but he seems to make up for it. He also attacks hitters. Wish I had the chance to see him here live in Midland with the Rangers' SL team Frisco.

Yeah I think Hendricks is the main difference opinions. I see a soft tossing, light stuff guy with advanced feel for his pitches dominanting weaker hitters. To me he is the weakest of the prospects. I doubt Brigham turns even into a Rusin, but he has enough stuff to maybe make it as a starter compared to Chapman who is a soft tossing middle reliever.

 

[2SeamHeat]

Soriano!!!! Pirate Killer!

 

[2SeamHeat]

Yeah I think Hendricks is the main difference opinions. I see a soft tossing, light stuff guy with advanced feel for his pitches dominanting weaker hitters. To me he is the weakest of the prospects. I doubt Brigham turns even into a Rusin, but he has enough stuff to maybe make it as a starter compared to Chapman who is a soft tossing middle reliever.

You could be right on Hendricks... I see a lot of Maddux in him, though. Not trying to compare him to a first-ballot HoF, just pointing out similar styles. Keep in mind that command, control, feel, deceptiveness, movement, and knowing how to pitch rather than throw usually outweigh velocity. It's how guys like Glavine and Maddux earned their salaries. We'll see on him, though. I do think he should have been sent to Tennessee in August since he appeared to be overpowering high A.

 

[dabynsky]

You could be right on Hendricks... I see a lot of Maddux in him, though. Not trying to compare him to a first-ballot HoF, just pointing out similar styles. Keep in mind that command, control, feel, deceptiveness, movement, and knowing how to pitch rather than throw usually outweigh velocity. It's how guys like Glavine and Maddux earned their salaries. We'll see on him, though. I do think he should have been sent to Tennessee in August since he appeared to be overpowering high A.

Glavine and Maddux had far better stuff than Hendricks did at the same age given that the pair had a combined 35 wins at the major league level by their age 22 season compared to Hendricks in advanced A ball. Look I love the stats that Hendricks has put up to this point, but until he does at AA or AAA ball I am not excited about it, kind of like Bour's domination of Daytona last year.

 

[Rice Cube]

Brigham came back from the Soto trade right? I imagine the Cubs are either getting a PTBNL or some cash back depending on what happens with Soto...

 

[Rice Cube]

Joe Mather making a case for himself :lol:

 

[dabynsky]

Brigham came back from the Soto trade right? I imagine the Cubs are either getting a PTBNL or some cash back depending on what happens with Soto...

Yes Brigham was in the Soto deal, and given that he has 30 starts I think we will get the high end of the range on the deal.

 

[Rice Cube]

Campana robbed of a stolen base because of official scorer :fist:

 

[2SeamHeat]

Glavine and Maddux had far better stuff than Hendricks did at the same age given that the pair had a combined 35 wins at the major league level by their age 22 season compared to Hendricks in advanced A ball. Look I love the stats that Hendricks has put up to this point, but until he does at AA or AAA ball I am not excited about it, kind of like Bour's domination of Daytona last year.

From what I've read of scouting reports... they had about the same scale of stuff that Hendricks does at his age. Yes, they were both in the majors at his age... but they were also taken out of high school. Hendricks was taken out of Dartmouth, and is in his 2nd season in the minors. As I said, though, I'm not really trying to compare him to those guys. That's just the general level of his type of pitching. You could also point to Derek Lowe, Wandy Rodriguez, Tim Hudson, Mark Buerhle, etc.

However, to simply rule him out because he doesn't throw 95 is a bit silly. There have been nearly as many guys to succeed at the MLB level with sub 92 MPH stuff as there have been to succeed with 96+ MPH stuff. I think a guy that can actually pitch... rather than just throw... has a better shot at turning into something worthwhile. While I would prefer a guy who could throw good heat and do so with strong command and control with an assortment of secondary pitches, I'm not going to simply crap on a guy that can do so without the high velocity.

However, I will concede that you could be right that he's an advanced level pitcher dominating guys at the lower levels... and could flop once he reaches a level where the batters are just as advanced as he is.

 

[2SeamHeat]

Marmol taking a trip down memory lane of this time last year....

 

[Rice Cube]

Come on Marmol, we gots to trade ya.

 

[dabynsky]

From what I've read of scouting reports... they had about the same scale of stuff that Hendricks does at his age. Yes, they were both in the majors at his age... but they were also taken out of high school. Hendricks was taken out of Dartmouth, and is in his 2nd season in the minors. As I said, though, I'm not really trying to compare him to those guys. That's just the general level of his type of pitching. You could also point to Derek Lowe, Wandy Rodriguez, Tim Hudson, Mark Buerhle, etc.

However, to simply rule him out because he doesn't throw 95 is a bit silly. There have been nearly as many guys to succeed at the MLB level with sub 92 MPH stuff as there have been to succeed with 96+ MPH stuff. I think a guy that can actually pitch... rather than just throw... has a better shot at turning into something worthwhile. While I would prefer a guy who could throw good heat and do so with strong command and control with an assortment of secondary pitches, I'm not going to simply crap on a guy that can do so without the high velocity.

However, I will concede that you could be right that he's an advanced level pitcher dominating guys at the lower levels... and could flop once he reaches a level where the batters are just as advanced as he is.

Seriously, Glavine and Maddux both threw harder than Hendricks did at this age. I can't speak to movement given that I have never seen Hendricks pitch, but I don't think it is a stretch to say that both would have had more. They also had Hall of Fame level feels for their craft. I like Hendricks given what he has done, but until he faces more experieced hitters it doesn't excite me what he has done.

 

[Rice Cube]

Well, that was fun

 

[2SeamHeat]

Marmol manages to hold it. The McCutchen popup to Barney at the line (second play he made like that in the game), I think was the big out of the inning. Of course, striking out Sanchez and getting Alvarez to fly out to Mather were big too. If McCutchen gets on in that situation, I'm pretty sure Marmol blows it.