Cole hamels

TC in Mississippi

CCS Staff
Joined:
Oct 22, 2014
Posts:
5,305
Liked Posts:
1,816
Philly won't get what they're currently asking for, but they'll get more than this most likely. (Unless they trade with St. Louis, in which case Philly will give Hamels away for a picture of the arch.)

This is a pretty good package though. Next year, if Edwards doesn't come up this year, they're probably the Cubs 3,4 & 5 prospects with all of them in the top 100 in baseball. Certainly a nice boost to your system. You are right though, someone else might offer similar positional strength with a better pitcher than Stinnett.
 

Parade_Rain

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Aug 23, 2012
Posts:
9,995
Liked Posts:
3,624
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Illinois Fighting Illini
But remember, Amaro isn't at risk of losing Hamels to FA any time soon if he doesn't trade him. It's one thing of a pitcher is in the last year of his contract, and the team needs to get something in return vs. nothing. It's quite another if it is simply a cost cutting move.
But I gather that Hamels wants out. Am I mistaken there? If I'm not, it's ultimately in the club's best interest to move him for what they can get.
 

TL1961

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 24, 2013
Posts:
35,142
Liked Posts:
19,213
But I gather that Hamels wants out. Am I mistaken there? If I'm not, it's ultimately in the club's best interest to move him for what they can get.

Yes. But with no pending FA, Amaro doesn't have a gun to his head, so he can continue to ask for the moon and stars. And continue to pay Hamels on a losing team.
 

chibears55

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 18, 2013
Posts:
13,554
Liked Posts:
1,915
Yes. But with no pending FA, Amaro doesn't have a gun to his head, so he can continue to ask for the moon and stars. And continue to pay Hamels on a losing team.
The so called gun to his head may be a disgruntled player who wants out...

I understand Amaro dont have to move him right away but i just dont think he going to get a bus load for a 31 YO starter who owed 23 mil per for next 4 yrs and other teams knowe he wants put and Amaro looking to move him...
 

chibears55

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 18, 2013
Posts:
13,554
Liked Posts:
1,915
I think you are painting a false scenario here to help your argument.

1) Expecting everyone to get extended is so incredibly rare it is just not worth entertaining.

2) You are expecting Scherzer money in a market next year where there are more pitchers than this last year, which would actually bring salaries down.

3) And like the Braves of the 90's it is best to trade away the guys that you know won't pan out versus trading away the guys you are pretty sure are plus War players.

Im not trying to win an argument. . Just giving my thoughts

First i was talking about TOR type starters only....
Like David Price
Not all starters....

i said there no guarantee they will all which is what 3 or 4 TOR types available next off season will be available. .
They could either extend or not wanna play for the cubs..


Which is why i feel if the Cubs have a shot at geting Hamels now, they should go for it...


Im expecting Scherzer money or close to it for the TOR type starters..yes..


problem with no.3 is you better be sure those guys dont pan out because you need to move them quickly before other teams think they wont pan out. ...

I think the Braves were just 2-3 deep in certain positions , that it wasn't that the thought was those guys wouldn't pan out, i think it was more they were expendable. ...
 

TC in Mississippi

CCS Staff
Joined:
Oct 22, 2014
Posts:
5,305
Liked Posts:
1,816
But I gather that Hamels wants out. Am I mistaken there? If I'm not, it's ultimately in the club's best interest to move him for what they can get.

Hamels has just started making those noises about wanting out, they'll probably get louder but they haven't yet. I don't see Amaro taking less than he wants any time soon. He'll get a deal or he'll get fired first. At least that's how I see it.
 

Shawon0Meter

PLAYOFFS?!?
Donator
Joined:
Feb 9, 2011
Posts:
5,444
Liked Posts:
2,774
Location:
Minnesota
I'd like to see the Cubs wait and see if they're in contention mid-season before seriously considering this trade. Anybody who trades for Hamels before then anyway is giving up too much.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,692
Liked Posts:
2,846
Location:
San Diego
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/02/which-top-2016-free-agents-will-negotiate-in-season.html

3. David Price. Interest is mutual in a deal between the Tigers and Price. In January, as Anthony Fenech of the Detroit Free Press reported, the lefty said he’s open to anything, and GM Dave Dombrowski said, “We hope he stays a Tiger for a long time.” Last Sunday in Lakeland, Price explained, “I’d probably rather not talk about it all year long. But I don’t feel like closing any doors. It doesn’t have to be cut off. I just don’t want to talk about it every day.” (Bob Nightengale of USA Today reporting). Price did say he wanted to avoid the situation Max Scherzer went through with the Tigers last spring, where the team released a statement on March 23rd about the pitcher rejecting their contract offer.

Key quote: “I would definitely welcome it. If it’s right for both of us, I’m sure we can make it happen.” – David Price, February 2015

5. Johnny Cueto. In December, Cueto’s agent Bryce Dixon set an Opening Day deadline for extension talks with the Reds, in talking to Jon Heyman of CBS Sports, so less than six weeks remain. Dixon noted in that conversation that Lester is a better comp for Cueto than Homer Bailey, while Max Scherzer is the closest comp. The two sides held preliminary talks at the Winter Meetings in December.

Key quote: “He wants to stay if the numbers are right.” – Bryce Dixon, December 2014 (MLB.com’s Mark Sheldon reporting)

6. Jordan Zimmermann. Zimmermann is willing to discuss a contract if the Nationals initiate talks this spring, but he does not want to negotiate in-season, reports Mark Zuckerman of CSNWashington.com. The pitcher said Saturday, “We negotiated a little bit and didn’t get very far,” also saying that he believes everything is on hold right now.

Key quote: “Once the season starts, I really don’t want to talk. So if something happens in spring here, we’re willing to listen. But once the season starts, I don’t really want to talk about it.” – Jordan Zimmermann, February 2015

9. Jeff Samardzija. Samardzija’s agent Mark Rodgers joined Jim Duquette and Jim Bowden of MLB Network Radio on SiriusXM earlier this month and said he and his client will listen to the White Sox anytime they want to talk. At the Winter Meetings in December, Sox GM Rick Hahn expressed interest in extending his new acquisition. On the radio show in February, though, Rodgers explained that a player needs to reach free agency to determine his true open market value.

Key quote: “To talk about what his value is in free agency a year early would really do him an injustice, because I think there’s more to come, better to come from Jeff.” – Mark Rodgers, February 2015

For some other names that could battle their way into the top ten in the coming months, check out my 2016 Free Agent Power Rankings. The 2015-16 class looks very strong, much better than the projected 2016-17 group. But how many of the ten players listed here will actually reach the open market? I feel that Heyward, Price, and Gordon have reasonable chances of signing extensions, while the other seven are likely to reach free agency.


Interesting view points.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,692
Liked Posts:
2,846
Location:
San Diego
I see Cueto getting 200 mil. Zimmerman will become a F/A. I can't see the Nats retaining after signing Max.

IMO Zimmerman would be the ideal target. Price and Cueto would be the top targets but the Cubs could swoop in on Zimmerman while the attention is on those 2. Zimmerman IMO is worth a Lester type contract.
 

Boobaby1

New member
Joined:
Apr 18, 2013
Posts:
2,236
Liked Posts:
1,180
I see Cueto getting 200 mil. Zimmerman will become a F/A. I can't see the Nats retaining after signing Max.

IMO Zimmerman would be the ideal target. Price and Cueto would be the top targets but the Cubs could swoop in on Zimmerman while the attention is on those 2. Zimmerman IMO is worth a Lester type contract.

Depending on how Arrieta performs, would it be out of the question for the Cubs to target Doug Fister instead of all the high profile pitchers that will cost an absolute ton?

Don't get me wrong, I would love to have any of them, but seriously, the last 3 years Fister has compiled a .345, .367, and .241 ERA, and for his career, has a .334 ERA all being in the AL except for last year.

Even at 31 (which is the same age as Hamels), to me, he would be an absolute steal, and is just as good as Hamels career 3.24 ERA in the National League without losing any of the prospects, and cost roughly the same amount of money

Lester
Arrieta
Fister
Hammel
Hendricks/Edwards

Just a thought.
 

TC in Mississippi

CCS Staff
Joined:
Oct 22, 2014
Posts:
5,305
Liked Posts:
1,816
Depending on how Arrieta performs, would it be out of the question for the Cubs to target Doug Fister instead of all the high profile pitchers that will cost an absolute ton?

Don't get me wrong, I would love to have any of them, but seriously, the last 3 years Fister has compiled a .345, .367, and .241 ERA, and for his career, has a .334 ERA all being in the AL except for last year.

Even at 31 (which is the same age as Hamels), to me, he would be an absolute steal, and is just as good as Hamels career 3.24 ERA in the National League without losing any of the prospects, and cost roughly the same amount of money

Lester
Arrieta
Fister
Hammel
Hendricks/Edwards

Just a thought.

Agree on pursuing Fister. If Edwards is on track to be a TOR type starter and they can extend Arrieta it would not surprise me to see them continue to look hard for a trade for another pitcher, possibly to replace Hammel sooner rather than later. What we see out of Arrieta and Edwards this year are going to answer a lot of questions. If the answers are hopeful I doubt they spend $200 mil on Cueto, Zimmerman or Price.

Oh and I seriously doubt Price signs in Detroit. I think that club is falling off a cliff this year and if they haven't signed him by the time they do a rebuild will be in their sites.
 

chibears55

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 18, 2013
Posts:
13,554
Liked Posts:
1,915
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/02/which-top-2016-free-agents-will-negotiate-in-season.html

3. David Price. Interest is mutual in a deal between the Tigers and Price. In January, as Anthony Fenech of the Detroit Free Press reported, the lefty said he’s open to anything, and GM Dave Dombrowski said, “We hope he stays a Tiger for a long time.” Last Sunday in Lakeland, Price explained, “I’d probably rather not talk about it all year long. But I don’t feel like closing any doors. It doesn’t have to be cut off. I just don’t want to talk about it every day.” (Bob Nightengale of USA Today reporting). Price did say he wanted to avoid the situation Max Scherzer went through with the Tigers last spring, where the team released a statement on March 23rd about the pitcher rejecting their contract offer.

Key quote: “I would definitely welcome it. If it’s right for both of us, I’m sure we can make it happen.” – David Price, February 2015

5. Johnny Cueto. In December, Cueto’s agent Bryce Dixon set an Opening Day deadline for extension talks with the Reds, in talking to Jon Heyman of CBS Sports, so less than six weeks remain. Dixon noted in that conversation that Lester is a better comp for Cueto than Homer Bailey, while Max Scherzer is the closest comp. The two sides held preliminary talks at the Winter Meetings in December.

Key quote: “He wants to stay if the numbers are right.” – Bryce Dixon, December 2014 (MLB.com’s Mark Sheldon reporting)

6. Jordan Zimmermann. Zimmermann is willing to discuss a contract if the Nationals initiate talks this spring, but he does not want to negotiate in-season, reports Mark Zuckerman of CSNWashington.com. The pitcher said Saturday, “We negotiated a little bit and didn’t get very far,” also saying that he believes everything is on hold right now.

Key quote: “Once the season starts, I really don’t want to talk. So if something happens in spring here, we’re willing to listen. But once the season starts, I don’t really want to talk about it.” – Jordan Zimmermann, February 2015

9. Jeff Samardzija. Samardzija’s agent Mark Rodgers joined Jim Duquette and Jim Bowden of MLB Network Radio on SiriusXM earlier this month and said he and his client will listen to the White Sox anytime they want to talk. At the Winter Meetings in December, Sox GM Rick Hahn expressed interest in extending his new acquisition. On the radio show in February, though, Rodgers explained that a player needs to reach free agency to determine his true open market value.

Key quote: “To talk about what his value is in free agency a year early would really do him an injustice, because I think there’s more to come, better to come from Jeff.” – Mark Rodgers, February 2015

For some other names that could battle their way into the top ten in the coming months, check out my 2016 Free Agent Power Rankings. The 2015-16 class looks very strong, much better than the projected 2016-17 group. But how many of the ten players listed here will actually reach the open market? I feel that Heyward, Price, and Gordon have reasonable chances of signing extensions, while the other seven are likely to reach free agency.


Interesting view points.
This is exactly what im talking about...

"All" these possible available TOR guys that some keep saying wait til next off season to get , may not be available. ...
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,692
Liked Posts:
2,846
Location:
San Diego
Scherzer: 7 year 210 mil
Zimmermann 2 year 24 mil 2015 making 16.5 mil (F/A)
Strasburg 7.4 mil in 2015 2016 will be in arb3
Fister 1 year 11.4 mil (F/A)
Gonzalez 5 year 42 mil 2017-2018 option years 12 mil each option year

I don't see the Nats letting Strasburg go as a F/A. He will be in arb 3 most likely looking a a huge pay hike in arb 3. IMO the Nats cut some rotation $ to extend him long term. They already have Geo and Max. Add Strass they have a solid 1-3.

Right now they have Tanner Roark who put up 15/10 2.85 with 198 IP in limbo. Makes little sense. IMO they knew they would not be able to retain Zimmermann and struck on the Max contract and are all in this year. Next year they might let both go. back fill with Tanner and long term Stras.

Zimm is going to command 150-175 mil. Fister next tier down so 100 mil range.

My opinion is at best Hendricks projects into Fister. Cubs have no one that projects into Zimmermann. Something to conciser.
 

TC in Mississippi

CCS Staff
Joined:
Oct 22, 2014
Posts:
5,305
Liked Posts:
1,816
This is exactly what im talking about...

"All" these possible available TOR guys that some keep saying wait til next off season to get , may not be available. ...

Maybe not but can you honestly see a declining Reds organization signing Cueto? Or the White Sox signing Samardzija? I already stated what I though about Price and Detroit and Zimmermann is unlikely a signing as I've ever hear. The Nationals simply can't afford him after the Scherzer deal. I would think they would be more likely to try to sign Strasburg before he becomes a free agent the next year.

I've stated many times that I do not want the Cubs to go after one of those big guns anyway instead maybe someone like Fister or trade for a Sonny Gray type next offseason or even this summer if opportunity presents. A $200 million 7 year contract on top of what they will have to pay Arrieta (if he performs and signs) and Lester is not something I want holding this team back.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,692
Liked Posts:
2,846
Location:
San Diego
This is exactly what im talking about...

"All" these possible available TOR guys that some keep saying wait til next off season to get , may not be available. ...

There are always F/A's on the market every year/ Players want the bidding process to maximize their contract value. There are rare cases where players extend but that falls into the following your heart category vs treating it as a business. Each player has their own motivations.
 

chibears55

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 18, 2013
Posts:
13,554
Liked Posts:
1,915
Maybe not but can you honestly see a declining Reds organization signing Cueto? Or the White Sox signing Samardzija? I already stated what I though about Price and Detroit and Zimmermann is unlikely a signing as I've ever hear. The Nationals simply can't afford him after the Scherzer deal. I would think they would be more likely to try to sign Strasburg before he becomes a free agent the next year.

I've stated many times that I do not want the Cubs to go after one of those big guns anyway instead maybe someone like Fister or trade for a Sonny Gray type next offseason or even this summer if opportunity presents. A $200 million 7 year contract on top of what they will have to pay Arrieta (if he performs and signs) and Lester is not something I want holding this team back.

Sure anything pissible..long way to the offseason

if those guys are available and want to play for cubs great...but their gonna be looking for close to 7 yrs 140 + deals..

If they can nab Hamels for a couple prospects and only have to pay him for 4 or 5 yrs I think theyd prefer that route over paying a guy 20+ mil for 7 yrs..
 

chibears55

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 18, 2013
Posts:
13,554
Liked Posts:
1,915
There are always F/A's on the market every year/ Players want the bidding process to maximize their contract value. There are rare cases where players extend but that falls into the following your heart category vs treating it as a business. Each player has their own motivations.
Ok.. I went over this already...; ))

I said TOR type starters only and I just said there no guarantee they will be available to the cubs.. as they could extend or just not be interested in signing with the cubs...
 

TC in Mississippi

CCS Staff
Joined:
Oct 22, 2014
Posts:
5,305
Liked Posts:
1,816
Sure anything pissible..long way to the offseason

if those guys are available and want to play for cubs great...but their gonna be looking for close to 7 yrs 140 + deals..

If they can nab Hamels for a couple prospects and only have to pay him for 4 or 5 yrs I think theyd prefer that route over paying a guy 20+ mil for 7 yrs..

Listen, I completely agree and they will watch that closely, I just think they're a pretty unlikely partner for Amaro. Now a new GM? That I can see. I think Amaro is going to get someone's #1 prospect, the rest of it will be less than he wants but Hamel signed to that affordable is worth at least that prospect, or a huge package of promising prospects. Some top contender's ace goes down and Amaro is on the phone. I could see The Dodgers, Angels, Cardinals or even the Padres get involved in season and all have the currency to make the trade. I don't see Bryant, Soler, Russell or Schwarber traded for Hamels. If the market never emerges I hope he becomes a viable target.
 

TL1961

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 24, 2013
Posts:
35,142
Liked Posts:
19,213
I expect Shark to extend with the Sox. Maybe because he seems so happy he landed there. His agent says there's more to come for him, which he needs to say. But Shark could revert back to his normal "one good half" self, and his expected salary offer goes down.
 

Zvbxrpl

Well-known member
Joined:
Oct 3, 2014
Posts:
2,550
Liked Posts:
2,601
I don't see Bryant, Soler, Russell or Schwarber traded for Hamels. If the market never emerges I hope he becomes a viable target.

Not to dishearten you, but the Red Sox have been trying to get Hamels, and Philly; again has a price that's way too high, so now the Sox are looking at Cliff Lee as an alternative.

I don't want to see either of those guys traded either. But if you're Philly, One of them, most likely 2, though they'll ask for 3 is the start of a deal. You wouldn't take 2nd rate prospects.

The cubs most likely have to move on from the idea of Cole Hamels unless Philly gets put in a position where they desperately need to move him to get pieces, and that may be in 3-4 years after they see some of their top pick prospects they're in line to get fail.

By then its too late.

Philly doesn't have to trade Hamels, that's the key here in all the talks nobody is mentioning. I wouldn't be in a rush to dish him if I'm Ruben Amaro Jr. And you can bet Philly will take whoever wants him bad enough to the cleaners. Unless he suffers a major injury of flat out blows, his price tag isn't going down.
 

Top