Cole hamels

[Zvbxrpl]

No, what Philly receives in trade will not be what Ruben Amaro decides.

It will be what Ruben Amaro can convince someone else of. That is far different.

And as far as anyone suggesting Bryant in a trade, I will predict one thing: The Cubs will not trade Kris Bryant. Period. No way. No how.

Ruben Amaro will have his veritable pick of the litter prospect-wise if Cole Hamels is on the table.

It will need convincing for him to get his top 2-3 choices.

I agree, the Cubs wont/better not trade Kris Bryant. No way. No how.

But If you're Ruben Amaro; take a wild fucking guess the first name he's going to ask for.

 

[chibears55]

The longet Amaro holds onto Hamels if he doesn't trade him this season the less he will get back for Hamels as he gets a yr older and his value decreases...

So, Amaro knows between now and trade deadline ..whatever offers he gets are going to be the best ones for Hamels. . If he still has Hamels at season end, thd offers wont be as good because of Hamels being a yr older (32) and a year less of control. ...

 

[Boobaby1]

The longet Amaro holds onto Hamels if he doesn't trade him this season the less he will get back for Hamels as he gets a yr older and his value decreases...

So, Amaro knows between now and trade deadline ..whatever offers he gets are going to be the best ones for Hamels. . If he still has Hamels at season end, thd offers wont be as good because of Hamels being a yr older (32) and a year less of control. ...

If you consider what basically the Cubs got for 1.5 years of Samardzija in Addison Russell, even if Amaro Jr. holds tight for now, Hamels will still have a good shot at being someone elses baby for 4 and a half years, or at least 4.

He (Amaro Jr,) is sitting in the catbirds seat, and trust me, there will be someone who will pay dearly for Hamels when he is traded. Even next offseason, some team will have more of a clearer picture as to what they have to be traded. Hamels will not be in Philadelphia next year. Trust me.

With what Boston has now with Moncada, Castillo, Swihart, Betts, Bogaert, Bradley, Owens, Porcello, Kelly and others, they have the goods from top to bottom to make a deal without emptying the pool.

 

[SilenceS]

If you consider what basically the Cubs got for 1.5 years of Samardzija in Addison Russell, even if Amaro Jr. holds tight for now, Hamels will still have a good shot at being someone elses baby for 4 and a half years, or at least 4.

He (Amaro Jr,) is sitting in the catbirds seat, and trust me, there will be someone who will pay dearly for Hamels when he is traded. Even next offseason, some team will have more of a clearer picture as to what they have to be traded. Hamels will not be in Philadelphia next year. Trust me.

With what Boston has now with Moncada, Castillo, Swihart, Betts, Bogaert, Bradley, Owens, Porcello, Kelly and others, they have the goods from top to bottom to make a deal without emptying the pool.

If we want Hamels, we can get it him with no problem. The only other teams that could compete would be Minny and Boston.

 

[chibears55]

If you consider what basically the Cubs got for 1.5 years of Samardzija in Addison Russell, even if Amaro Jr. holds tight for now, Hamels will still have a good shot at being someone elses baby for 4 and a half years, or at least 4.

He (Amaro Jr,) is sitting in the catbirds seat, and trust me, there will be someone who will pay dearly for Hamels when he is traded. Even next offseason, some team will have more of a clearer picture as to what they have to be traded. Hamels will not be in Philadelphia next year. Trust me.

With what Boston has now with Moncada, Castillo, Swihart, Betts, Bogaert, Bradley, Owens, Porcello, Kelly and others, they have the goods from top to bottom to make a deal without emptying the pool.

I wasnt saying he will be in philly next year.. just said I think if Amaro waits til next off season to move him , he most likely will get less in return then if he moves him now or by the deadline. ..

Im also not saying Hamels wouldn't cost at least 1 top prospect now, I just doubt any team will give up their 2 top prospects for hiim...

I think it will end up more with them receiving a team 2nd or 3rd best prospect and a couple from the next tier along with maybe a under 30 major league player or two.

The cubs could put together a nice package like that for him

 

[CSF77]

Best I would go is Russell, Vogelbach, (Almora or Edwards) About it.

They would get 2 top 100 and a 1B replacement for Howard looking forward. I still do see the need going on. Adding Hamels doesn't guarantee anything this year. With him the Phills suck. Until the O is proven it is a pointless trade.

 

[chibears55]

Best I would go is Russell, Vogelbach, (Almora or Edwards) About it.

They would get 2 top 100 and a 1B replacement for Howard looking forward. I still do see the need going on. Adding Hamels doesn't guarantee anything this year. With him the Phills suck. Until the O is proven it is a pointless trade.

Adding Hamels or another quality TOR starter guarentees you a solid rotation that would take the pressure off the kids and the offense. ..

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Adding Hamels or another quality TOR starter guarentees you a solid rotation that would take the pressure off the kids and the offense. ..

It's possible you have that now. That's what the evaluating for. If there's a hole in that rotation they'll look to fill it at the deadline. I suspect that hole is a better MOR guy than Hammel myself as opposed to adding what could be a third TOR if a larger sample size reveals Arrieta to be what he looks to be.

 

[chibears55]

It's possible you have that now. That's what the evaluating for. If there's a hole in that rotation they'll look to fill it at the deadline. I suspect that hole is a better MOR guy than Hammel myself as opposed to adding what could be a third TOR if a larger sample size reveals Arrieta to be what he looks to be.

Sure its possible but too many big question marks...

We dont know if Arrieta a no.2 TOR type or not

Jason Hammel had somewhat of a career year last year, overall he a 4 at best who gonna be a 3 for the cubs in 2015

Kyle Hendricks in his 2nd year.. he could be good or struggle, we have no idea....

Wada, wood, or Jackson at no.5. Ehhhh

The only real sure thing they have with the rotation right now is Lester, so adding a Hamels or another TOR starter would not just take pressure off the offense but also the other starters

 

[CSF77]

Sure its possible but too many big question marks...

We dont know if Arrieta a no.2 TOR type or not

Jason Hammel had somewhat of a career year last year, overall he a 4 at best who gonna be a 3 for the cubs in 2015

Kyle Hendricks in his 2nd year.. he could be good or struggle, we have no idea....

Wada, wood, or Jackson at no.5. Ehhhh

The only real sure thing they have with the rotation right now is Lester, so adding a Hamels or another TOR starter would not just take pressure off the offense but also the other starters

So are you a disappointed if they do not get to the play off type?

Personally if they don't make it I'm ok with it. W/L don't matter to me at this point. What I care about is seeing if what Theo is doing will work out. Not in play offs this year. But seeing the talent be legit vs failures.

We saw with Baez and Alcantara that even good talent is not going to just dominate major league talent. Soler even came back to earth.

The reality is there is going to be an adjustment process to go through. I do not expect anything out of this team until the end of this year to be honest.

It would be a waste of resource to trade up now.

Your opinion is on the verge of panic mode. Theo said it will take time. Maddon has been on the same page. This team is not going to sell out early. Not yet.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

If Arrieta is what he was last year, and really from the stuff the only issue is durability, he's not a 2 he's a 1. Hammel is my biggest question at 3, if he pitches like he did for all but those first three starts in Oakland he'll be fine. I've really started to feel good about Hendricks after reading a lot of scouting reports. A right handed Jamie Moyer type? Yes please. As far as 5 you have Jackson, Wood, Doubront, Turner and Wada competing for that spot. That is a better competition than most teams for that spot. Lots of ifs sure but in a year where you're just taking the training wheels off I'm ok with it, for now.

I think CSF77 has it right, I'm not expecting playoffs this year. Maybe you are. If there's a path there I think they'll take it but if not and this team just improves that will be enough.

 

[chibears55]

So are you a disappointed if they do not get to the play off type?

Personally if they don't make it I'm ok with it. W/L don't matter to me at this point. What I care about is seeing if what Theo is doing will work out. Not in play offs this year. But seeing the talent be legit vs failures.

We saw with Baez and Alcantara that even good talent is not going to just dominate major league talent. Soler even came back to earth.

The reality is there is going to be an adjustment process to go through. I do not expect anything out of this team until the end of this year to be honest.

It would be a waste of resource to trade up now.

Your opinion is on the verge of panic mode. Theo said it will take time. Maddon has been on the same page. This team is not going to sell out early. Not yet.

With the way the team is set up on now..

No, i think .500 is a realistic goal..

As far as being a waste of resource to trade now....
My opinion being of panic mode...

Why wait if your able to trade players that your not fully counting on to recieve a starter that will greatly improve your rotation for next 4 / 5yrs at a reasonable cost for a TOR starter...
Also

Come July they may end up competing with other teams for Hamels looking to improve rotation or replace an injured starter who might not be looking at him now.. so why put yourself in a position to possibly give up more then, then you would now..


I dont understand the logic of lets wait and see how they look come July before they should improve ...

Why not improve now and win more games in Apr and May, over let hope to stay close and depending on how close, then look to improve team in July...


Again. . Im not suggesting the Cubs give up their top 2 prospects and unload their system for Hamels. ..
i think the Cubs could come up with a solid package without mortgaging their system to please Amaro and the phillies

 

[2323]

Best I would go is Russell, Vogelbach, (Almora or Edwards) About it.

They would get 2 top 100 and a 1B replacement for Howard looking forward. I still do see the need going on. Adding Hamels doesn't guarantee anything this year. With him the Phills suck. Until the O is proven it is a pointless trade.

This is stupid. Why give up anything for him? His age may not line up with that of our prospects. Also, he doesn't guarantee anything. The Cubs would be better off keeping their prospects and use their advantages of being a big market team and use free agency of next off season.

 

[CSF77]

With the way the team is set up on now..

No, i think .500 is a realistic goal..

As far as being a waste of resource to trade now....
My opinion being of panic mode...

Why wait if your able to trade players that your not fully counting on to recieve a starter that will greatly improve your rotation for next 4 / 5yrs at a reasonable cost for a TOR starter...
Also

Come July they may end up competing with other teams for Hamels looking to improve rotation or replace an injured starter who might not be looking at him now.. so why put yourself in a position to possibly give up more then, then you would now..


I dont understand the logic of lets wait and see how they look come July before they should improve ...

Why not improve now and win more games in Apr and May, over let hope to stay close and depending on how close, then look to improve team in July...


Again. . Im not suggesting the Cubs give up their top 2 prospects and unload their system for Hamels. ..
i think the Cubs could come up with a solid package without mortgaging their system to please Amaro and the phillies

What would happen if they trade Russell. Then Baez fails to improve. Then Castro turns out injure prone?

Not saying it will but anything could happen. That is why you build depth.

Look at it if they do nothing:

May Bryant comes up. Trade deadline Russell is ready to promote. Almora start of next year. Schwarber ends up becoming a major league catcher:

LF: Bryant
CF: Almora
RF: Soler
3B: Russell
SS: Castro
2B: Baez
1B: Rizzo
C: Schwarber

It works if all make it. F/A can fix what doesn't work.

My opinion is let the season play out. See if Jake is a legit #2 or a #3. At that point we could be looking at a need for a #3. (Pretty funny if Shark resigns here IMO).

To be honest here I don't care if they miss the play offs. What I care about is seeing this thing that Theo is building to be played out. If it works then the wait was worth it. If it fails then the naysayers will have their day.

I'm satified that they added Lester and Montenero. Fowler was unexpected but it shows that they are willing to make a honest attempt at it this year.

Not to mention: There is still the deadline. The season should dictate if the Cubs should spend talent or not. Lets get Bryant on the team and see if Baez adapts. Pointless to trade depth (and it will cost a chunk of that) when what you have is in question.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

With the way the team is set up on now..

No, i think .500 is a realistic goal..

As far as being a waste of resource to trade now....
My opinion being of panic mode...

Why wait if your able to trade players that your not fully counting on to recieve a starter that will greatly improve your rotation for next 4 / 5yrs at a reasonable cost for a TOR starter...
Also

Come July they may end up competing with other teams for Hamels looking to improve rotation or replace an injured starter who might not be looking at him now.. so why put yourself in a position to possibly give up more then, then you would now..


I dont understand the logic of lets wait and see how they look come July before they should improve ...

Why not improve now and win more games in Apr and May, over let hope to stay close and depending on how close, then look to improve team in July...


Again. . Im not suggesting the Cubs give up their top 2 prospects and unload their system for Hamels. ..
i think the Cubs could come up with a solid package without mortgaging their system to please Amaro and the phillies

Do you really think that the Cubs have not let the Phillies know exactly who they'd be willing to give up for Hamels? Do you think the Dodgers and Red Sox have left it in Amaro's hands having done the same? Unless there's a catastrophic injury the season will start in 5 weeks and Hamels will be still be in a Phillies uniform.

 

[chibears55]

What would happen if they trade Russell. Then Baez fails to improve. Then Castro turns out injure prone?

Not saying it will but anything could happen. That is why you build depth.

Look at it if they do nothing:

May Bryant comes up. Trade deadline Russell is ready to promote. Almora start of next year. Schwarber ends up becoming a major league catcher:

LF: Bryant
CF: Almora
RF: Soler
3B: Russell
SS: Castro
2B: Baez
1B: Rizzo
C: Schwarber

It works if all make it. F/A can fix what doesn't work.

My opinion is let the season play out. See if Jake is a legit #2 or a #3. At that point we could be looking at a need for a #3. (Pretty funny if Shark resigns here IMO).

LOL... you have a giant IF there

Again if they have an opportunity to get Hamels now without overpaying with their prospects, i think it would be a good move.

 

[chibears55]

Do you really think that the Cubs have not let the Phillies know exactly who they'd be willing to give up for Hamels? Do you think the Dodgers and Red Sox have left it in Amaro's hands having done the same? Unless there's a catastrophic injury the season will start in 5 weeks and Hamels will be still be in a Phillies uniform.

Ok ????

 

[CSF77]

If Arrieta is what he was last year, and really from the stuff the only issue is durability, he's not a 2 he's a 1. Hammel is my biggest question at 3, if he pitches like he did for all but those first three starts in Oakland he'll be fine. I've really started to feel good about Hendricks after reading a lot of scouting reports. A right handed Jamie Moyer type? Yes please. As far as 5 you have Jackson, Wood, Doubront, Turner and Wada competing for that spot. That is a better competition than most teams for that spot. Lots of ifs sure but in a year where you're just taking the training wheels off I'm ok with it, for now.

I think CSF77 has it right, I'm not expecting playoffs this year. Maybe you are. If there's a path there I think they'll take it but if not and this team just improves that will be enough.

I don't know if he is in the #1 debate at this point. He did something last year to put him in the debate. I for one do not expect his FIP to be in the 2's again. That is what put him into to the ace conversation. Little else matter. What made me believe he was not full of hot air was his FIP.

2014: Arrieta FIP 2.26 ERA 2.53. His ERA was legit. Not helped by D or luck.

2013: Garza: FIP: 3.78 ERA: 3.17
2013: Wood FIP: 3.89 ERA 3.11
2012: Dempster 3.43 FIP 2.25 ERA.

I believe the D schemes used by Dale Sveum lowered his SP's more that was sustainable. FIP tells the true story.

2014: FIP:

Arrieta: 2.26
Shark: 3.10
Hammel: 3.19
Hendricks: 3.32
Wood: 4.38
Wada: 3.75
Jackson: 4.45
Turner: 4.52
Doubront: 4.66

This is what I base my judgement about with the rotation.

 

[Boobaby1]

There are way too many pitchers that will be available via free agency, trade at the deadline, or trade next off-season to even think about.

Sure some will re-sign with their respective teams, some will get traded and some will hit free agency.

I think (as some have said already) we need to let some of this all take shape. If Lester, Arrieta, and Hammel are not what we thought they would be, the Cubs will have to shoot a little higher.

Here is a list copied from COT's Contracts on starting pitchers. I am not going to look through every one to see if they have signed any deal past 2016, but there are some interesting names out there.

(* – player whose current contract includes 2016 option.)

Brett Anderson
Bronson Arroyo *
Clay Buchholz *
Mark Buehrle
A.J. Burnett
Trevor Cahill *
Chris Capuano
Jhoulys Chacin
Wei-Yin Chen
Bartolo Colon
Johnny Cueto
Ross Detwiler
R.A. Dickey *
Marco Estrada
Doug Fister
Gavin Floyd
Yovani Gallardo
Jaime Garcia
Zack Greinke (opt-out)
Jeremy Guthrie *
J.A. Happ
Dan Haren
Tim Hudson
Hisashi Iwakuma
Scott Kazmir
Ian Kennedy
John Lackey
Mat Latos
Mike Leake
Colby Lewis
Tim Lincecum
Kyle Lohse
Justin Masterson
Brandon Morrow
Bud Norris
Mike Pelfrey
Rick Porcello
David Price
Jeff Samardzija
Alfredo Simon
Jerome Williams
Jordan Zimmerman


Looks as if the Cubs scouting department will have plenty to look at.

 

[chibears55]

Lmao. . Some of you crack me up...
You know if the cubs dealt for cole hamels tomorrow youd be sporting a woody til opening day