Concussions

[Gustavus Adolphus]

When Lefty and I talk about concussions, this is what we mean....

Of 21 high school players monitored for a full season by a team of researchers from Purdue University, four players who were never diagnosed with concussions were found to have suffered brain impairment that was at least as bad as that of other players who had been deemed concussed and removed from play.

The report, published in the latest edition of the Journal of Neurotrauma, found that some players received more than 1,800 hits to the head during practices and games, some with a force 20 times greater than what a person would feel while riding a roller coaster.[/QUOTE]

And that is in prep games. Imagine those numbers when we talk NCAA and the NFL.

Point is...this is a REAL issue. Ignoring this, imo, is gross negligence.

Quick story: A doctor came up to me last Saturday when I was doing youth games. He told me he volunteered the service for the team, but asked that they comply with any diagnosis he gave (this was his fee). He has kept four kids, ranging in ages from 10-14, from playing football. Meanwhile, parents are complaining because they paid $300 for their son to play ball.

Again, this is real. Youth leagues that don't carry enough insurance could find themselves going bankrupt from the new concussion rules. Small town high schools could drop football just due to liability claims. It is not hyperbole when I say football at the youth levels could see itself go away by ignoring this issue.

As for the high school level: As a referee if I notice a kid who is a little woozy after a big hit, I can send him to the sideline to be examined by the doctor (Oh yeah, all teams must now provide a Licensed Medical Examiner). If the player is to return, I have full authority to stop the game and question whether or not he was checked out, and has the permission from the doctor to return. If he was not checked out, or not given the ok from the doctor then I am within my rights as a game referee to keep the kid on the sideline. I also have to report incidences like this to the IHSA.

Again, this has nothing to do with softening up the game. It has more to do with an understanding of the seriousness of head injuries.

 

[FirstTimer]

Cue Lex coming in: Daaah why don't they just play flag football then...Dahhh these players aren't tough!

 

[Lefty]

Cue Lex coming in: Daaah why don't they just play flag football then...Dahhh these players aren't tough!

Something about being paid a lot of money, Butkus et al did it for free, etc. Boy, I can't wait.

 

[Rex Jaybels]

Just a note: Cutler is practicing today according to Zach Zaidman

Cue a Chicago tough comment and something about Bear Weather

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Just a note: Cutler is practicing today according to Zach Zaidman

Cue a Chicago tough comment and something about Bear Weather

Well then what that means is he has been through tests with a doctor, and he has been cleared by a medical professional. Contrast that with Kevin Kolb from opening week, who wasn't initially cleared by doctors after going through a test, and at the very least you can say the NFL is (took them long enough imo) being somewhat proactive in helping this issue.

FYI: Where I teach, all of the football players had to go through an impact test specifically designed to give baseline data on head issues. If a player is then suspected of have been concussed, he goes through the same test and that is how they determine if he is medically eligible to play.

FYI x 2: I recently refereed a game where the senior starting QB had been out for four weeks because he couldn't pass the test. Sucks for him, but that is what it has come to.

 

[Rex Jaybels]

Good to see those precautions at that level.

 

[Rush]

When a hand touches a quarterback's helmet, it should not be an automatic first down,roughing, etc.

I am all for keeping concussions closely monitored but some of the flags they are calling are pure BS.

When I played QB in high school, I was concussed and returned to the game. After seeing a lot of studies, instances on concussed players returning to the game to get more severe injuries, I am glad it never happened to me. My vision was fucked somewhat for a play or two but I should have came out. It wasn't EVER monitored at my school. They didn't even ask me about it after I complained until after the game.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

When a hand touches a quarterback's helmet, it should not be an automatic first down,roughing, etc.

A QB who has just thrown a pass is, by football definition, a defenseless player. They are in no position to receive a hit -no matter how weak of a hit it may look.

I am all for keeping concussions closely monitored but some of the flags they are calling are pure BS.

Well I'm not going to get back into the debate what is a BS call and what is not a BS call. That being said, when you are trying to prevent something like concussions, there are going to be calls made that not everybody is going to agree with it.

It wasn't EVER monitored at my school. They didn't even ask me about it after I complained until after the game.

As was I one game. Not at QB mind you, but as a nose tackle. Keep in mind this was in 1999. Most of these discoveries have been >5 years.

 

[Lefty]

Look, if you want to limit concussions (I say "limit" because head/brain injuries will almost certainly never be fully eradicated), then you cannot allow a defender to in any way hit or touch an opposing player's helmet. That's just the way it is. If you do allow that in any fashion, it completely negates what you set out to do in the first place. It's akin to a boxing circuit saying "alright, well we want to limit brain injuries, but guys are still allowed to punch each other in the head, just.....not too hard." It makes no sense to allow even a sliver of the thing you are trying to prevent exist, at least when it applies to preventing players' brains turning to mush at age 40.

 

[Veritas]

Hockey players skate at speeds over 30 miles an hour and legally hit each other in the head while not wearing face protection. Not to mention the helmets we wear offer a fraction of the cushion as football helmet. Also our heads are not landing on grass or turf, we hit the ice.

Touching the quarterbacks helmet should not be an automatic penalty, it should be at the discretion of the official if it was malicious. I understand protecting the quarterbacks but the calls and rules have become ridiculous.

Rodney Harrison puts it best "take of the skirts, throw on some slacks, and toughen up."

 

[Lefty]

Hockey players skate at speeds over 30 miles an hour and legally hit each other in the head while not wearing face protection. Not to mention the helmets we wear offer a fraction of the cushion as football helmet. Also our heads are not landing on grass or turf, we hit the ice.

Yes, and the NHL has begun in earnest to reduce the number of hits to the head players take, because Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy has also been found in hockey players. To me, the NHL has been the dumbest of all the professional sports, because they have yet to outlaw the most archaic of hockey practices: fighting, where the entire object of a skirmish is to hit the opposing player in the head. But really, that's neither here nor there, just like mentioning the differences between hockey and football.

Also, football helmets don't do much to limit concussions. They are primarily designed to prevent skull fractures and other concise-force-related injuries. They do little, if anything, to actually ensure that the force of a blow is directed away from the head, they just broaden the area of the head over which that force is applied (pretty much the same principles that govern bullet-proof vests).

Think about it, it doesn't really matter if the force is applied across a larger area of the head (save for perhaps some measure of value at the extreme, where the force is taken and applied equally from all directions about the head), that momentum is still there, and it is still conserved. That momentum results in a change in velocity (i.e. dv/dt: acceleration) of the head of the person being hit, and that acceleration results in a force being applied to the skull. Because of this, it doesn't matter if the force is applied over a large or small area, the acceleration of the person's skull will still result in their brain rattling around in their skull, which could still result in a concussion. Their skull will be intact, but their brain might still bruise just the same.

Touching the quarterbacks helmet should not be an automatic penalty, it should be at the discretion of the official if it was malicious.

Intent does not matter. If the goal is to limit (or remove completely) hits to the head (which it should be, but more on that in a bit) then every instance of hits to the head on a defenseless player needs to be penalized. This isn't about removing one unfair advantage one team might have on another, this is about limiting or removing the acts which have been shown to cause players to go psychotic and die shortly after their playing careers are over.

I understand protecting the quarterbacks but the calls and rules have become ridiculous.

From what viewpoint? From the perspective of some meatball that wants the game to be played by drooling idiots that will be lucky to see age 50? Yeah, I guess so. But from the perspective of a multi-billion dollar a year industry that doesn't want to have to pay out millions each time one of their former players bites the dust essentially from being employed in the league, they haven't done enough.

Rodney Harrison puts it best "take of the skirts, throw on some slacks, and toughen up."

Look, if all of these players knew what was likely to happen to them as a result of playing full-contact football, and they made an informed, rational decision to continue playing and killing themselves in exchange for millions, fine, you have a case to be made. The thing is though, they don't know about it. And even if they are fully aware of conditions such as CTE, it's causes, it's long-lasting affects, etc., they certainly were not informed about it until recently, almost certainly much too late to make a significant change for some.

In cases where people under your employ are subjected to potentially (I would say certainly) hazardous conditions in the course of doing their job without their knowledge, you have an obligation (if not legal, then certainly ethical) to protect them from it.

In a decade or two, when CTE has been more-thoroughly researched, and a system has been put in place (if not at the high-school and lower levels, then at least starting at the collegiate levels) that informs prospective football recruits/draftees/current players fully of what they could potentially, almost certainly, be getting themselves into, then, and only then, would it be acceptable to relax the rules. Right now, though, these guys have virtually no clue about what they have gotten themselves into, and it is now the job of major football governing bodies to protect those players from those risks.

 

[Veritas]

Yes, and the NHL has begun in earnest to reduce the number of hits to the head players take.

The NHL made it a point to continue to allow hits to a players head when changing the rules late last season. They only eliminated hits to the head from a persons blind side (from behind or from the side). The physical nature of the game has been retained in changing rules to limit some of the injuries that occur.

The NFL should take the same approach when creating these rules. Look into rules that help protect players yet still allow for physical play. Part of contact sports is the actual contact and physical aspect of the sports.

These guys are paid millions a year to take the risk. I see NFL defensive linemen making textbook tackles on the quarterback a fraction of a second after the ball leaves the hand and they are getting flagged for it. It has become ridiculous.

 

[Lefty]

The NHL made it a point to continue to allow hits to a players head when changing the rules late last season. They only eliminated hits to the head from a persons blind side (from behind or from the side). The physical nature of the game has been retained in changing rules to limit some of the injuries that occur.

The NFL should take the same approach when creating these rules. Look into rules that help protect players yet still allow for physical play. Part of contact sports is the actual contact and physical aspect of the sports.

These guys are paid millions a year to take the risk.

They don't know the risk! That's my point. It's become a punchline that old football players are forgetful and have "problems", it's never been fully studied and put out there for them to make an informed decision on the matter. Saying "these guys are paid millions a year to take the risk" is asinine because the risk is unknown to them. And I'm not talking about the existence of CTE, but rather how likely it is (substantial) and exactly what the repercussions of that risk are. They don't know that CTE results in early-onset dementia, or that they are way more likely to be dangerously aggressive, or that they will most likely die prematurely.

I see NFL defensive linemen making textbook tackles on the quarterback a fraction of a second after the ball leaves the hand and they are getting flagged for it. It has become ridiculous.

Now you're arguing a different point, crying about the general protection of QB's (the most influential position on a team) in the NFL (a multi-billion dollar a year industry) in an effort to protect and promote the passing game (a style of play that fans enjoy, and will pay good money to see). Late hits, in general, have almost nothing to do with the prevention of concussions, which is what we're talking about here. Stay on point.

 

[FirstTimer]

Rodney Harrison puts it best "take of the skirts, throw on some slacks, and toughen up."

Yeah and Troy Aikman...a HOF QB...said on the radio a few days ago that he's not sure he would encourage his kid to play football because of the concussion risks and long term damage from them.

Rodney Harrison sounds like a buffoon.

 

[Veritas]

I can see your point but you will not change my opinion on the topic. I have played hockey all my life, and playing major midget AAA we were told you put as many legal hits to the head of our opposition as possible and if we took one on the head and felt woozy to get up and keep playing. It was part of the deal to play at that high of a level, they always told you if you don't like it play the game in a lower division. That was for 15-17 year old who were not being paid to play the sport. Parents had to sign mass amounts of forms and contract making sure they understood having your son play at that level was dangerous.

Now that information is coming out on CTE inform the professional athletes about it, but also tell them if you're concerned about it to leave the sport and refuse to water down the physical aspect of the game. It is pretty common sense that when you play a sport were 350 pound men who can move fast are trying to hit you there is serious risk involved, whether they know about CTE or not. I even would like to see head on helmet to helmet contact legal again.

 

[FirstTimer]

I can see your point but you will not change my opinion on the topic.

I'm not surprised.

You take repeated blows to the head.

I have played hockey all my life, and playing major midget AAA we were told you put as many legal hits to the head of our opposition as possible and if we took one on the head and felt woozy to get up and keep playing.

That's fucking Special person. You, your coaches, and the league are fucking idiots.

That's not even debatable.

Honestly.

People think this way?

. I even would like to see head on helmet to helmet contact legal again.

I hope the next shot you take to the head is your last.


If you honestly believe in any of the shit you just typed I seriously pray for you...and pray that you are never a coach, a ref, a league official, or perhaps even a parent.

This is just boneheaded, ignorant, dangerous, Special person, and asinine thinking.

 

[Lefty]

I can see your point but you will not change my opinion on the topic. I have played hockey all my life, and playing major midget AAA we were told you put as many legal hits to the head of our opposition as possible and if we took one on the head and felt woozy to get up and keep playing. It was part of the deal to play at that high of a level, they always told you if you don't like it play the game in a lower division. That was for 15-17 year old who were not being paid to play the sport. Parents had to sign mass amounts of forms and contract making sure they understood having your son play at that level was dangerous.

Now that information is coming out on CTE inform the professional athletes about it, but also tell them if you're concerned about it to leave the sport and refuse to water down the physical aspect of the game. It is pretty common sense that when you play a sport were 350 pound men who can move fast are trying to hit you there is serious risk involved, whether they know about CTE or not. I even would like to see head on helmet to helmet contact legal again.

Wow. So other people should put their brains and lives at risk because you and your parents were stupid enough to do the same with yours.

 

[Veritas]

I guess you actually would have to play sports at a very high level to understand my point of view.

*edit* I looked into CTE... it is an issues with a small percentage of athletes.

Whatever I stand by that contact sports are suppose to be tough, don't like it then go play fucking soccer.

 

[Lefty]

I guess you actually would have to play sports at a very high level to understand my point of view.

Oh God are you really resorting to this shit now? Come on.

 

[Rex Jaybels]

I guess you actually would have to play sports at a very high level to understand my point of view.

*edit* I looked into CTE... it is an issues with a small percentage of athletes.

Whatever I stand by that contact sports are suppose to be tough, don't like it then go play fucking soccer.

The studies are actually relatively new so there is no way of knowing the long term effects.

And it's not about being tough or not being tough, it's about being educated as to the risks involved.