R K
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2 Cups in 4 years. They can do anything they want, they've earned it. </p>
Variable
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Mikita's Helmet" data-cid="208512" data-time="1378223080">
<div>
...two in the last four years.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
The point was that in 5 years they've gone through 6 different goalies who pretty much all of them had their chances at being the starter and they found success anyway. It wasn't luck, they didn't "strike gold" with the goalies they had, the team they have in front of the goalie is just really good.</p>
<div>
...two in the last four years.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
The point was that in 5 years they've gone through 6 different goalies who pretty much all of them had their chances at being the starter and they found success anyway. It wasn't luck, they didn't "strike gold" with the goalies they had, the team they have in front of the goalie is just really good.</p>
Variable
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rex" data-cid="208519" data-time="1378228154">
<div>
lets just do the math on this one, since people are saying Crow isn't Lundqvist elite.</p>
</p>
Kari Lehtinen makes 5.9 for 5 years.</p>
Cam Ward makes 6.3 for 6 years</p>
Mike Smith makes 5.7 for 6 years</p>
Fleury makes 5 mil for 7 years </p>
</p>
the big comparison is Carey Price. Price had a terrible sophomore year, likely worse than Crawfords. Price is 2 years younger than Crawford, has never made it past the second round. 6.5 million for 6 years.</p>
</p>
I said before that I felt the term was long, but it just seems on par for market value for a goalie who in 3 years made the NHL all rookie team, Jennings Trophy, 3 straight playoff appearances, two 30 win seasons (would be three if not for the lockout) A Stanley Cup, and Conn Smythe consideration. Plus, his value would have only been higher if he made team Canada. </p>
</p>
oh, and Rask is 7 mil at 8 years. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
A lot of those are team achievements you're talking about that you are granting the goalie exclusive rights to. Which is blatantly wrong. And again, you're talking about a goalie leading teams past playoff rounds, it's just.....that argument gets you nowhere because of all the hypocrisy behind it. Besides maybe Kari, those are all bad contacts, bad money spent on the position. Why do the Hawks need to start doing that? Even if that is the market value? Because other teams are? They don't need to. Besides Pittsburgh, the Hawks aren't/weren't in the position of any of those other teams.</p>
<div>
lets just do the math on this one, since people are saying Crow isn't Lundqvist elite.</p>
</p>
Kari Lehtinen makes 5.9 for 5 years.</p>
Cam Ward makes 6.3 for 6 years</p>
Mike Smith makes 5.7 for 6 years</p>
Fleury makes 5 mil for 7 years </p>
</p>
the big comparison is Carey Price. Price had a terrible sophomore year, likely worse than Crawfords. Price is 2 years younger than Crawford, has never made it past the second round. 6.5 million for 6 years.</p>
</p>
I said before that I felt the term was long, but it just seems on par for market value for a goalie who in 3 years made the NHL all rookie team, Jennings Trophy, 3 straight playoff appearances, two 30 win seasons (would be three if not for the lockout) A Stanley Cup, and Conn Smythe consideration. Plus, his value would have only been higher if he made team Canada. </p>
</p>
oh, and Rask is 7 mil at 8 years. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
A lot of those are team achievements you're talking about that you are granting the goalie exclusive rights to. Which is blatantly wrong. And again, you're talking about a goalie leading teams past playoff rounds, it's just.....that argument gets you nowhere because of all the hypocrisy behind it. Besides maybe Kari, those are all bad contacts, bad money spent on the position. Why do the Hawks need to start doing that? Even if that is the market value? Because other teams are? They don't need to. Besides Pittsburgh, the Hawks aren't/weren't in the position of any of those other teams.</p>
Ton
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="208535" data-time="1378236748">
<div>
The point was that in 5 years they've gone through 6 different goalies who pretty much all of them had their chances at being the starter and they found success anyway. It wasn't luck, they didn't "strike gold" with the goalies they had, the team they have in front of the goalie is just really good.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
Niemi, no longer in Chicago behind this "stacked" team, was 2nd in wins last season, top 10 in save percent amongst starters, top 10 in GAA. So you can say he is a top 10 goaltender... easily, arguably top 5-8.</p>
</p>
But sure, keep thinking Niemi's and Crawford's of the NHL are a dime-a-dozen. Khabi already had a Cup ring and the Hawks paid through the nose to land him in Chicago (remember, his contract was signed nearly 10 years ago and cost more money than Crawford is making with this extension)</p>
</p>
Raanta surely would win a Cup behind this team, right? Playing for pennies?</p>
</p>
I can ask dumb questions too to fuel the argument.</p>
<div>
The point was that in 5 years they've gone through 6 different goalies who pretty much all of them had their chances at being the starter and they found success anyway. It wasn't luck, they didn't "strike gold" with the goalies they had, the team they have in front of the goalie is just really good.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
Niemi, no longer in Chicago behind this "stacked" team, was 2nd in wins last season, top 10 in save percent amongst starters, top 10 in GAA. So you can say he is a top 10 goaltender... easily, arguably top 5-8.</p>
</p>
But sure, keep thinking Niemi's and Crawford's of the NHL are a dime-a-dozen. Khabi already had a Cup ring and the Hawks paid through the nose to land him in Chicago (remember, his contract was signed nearly 10 years ago and cost more money than Crawford is making with this extension)</p>
</p>
Raanta surely would win a Cup behind this team, right? Playing for pennies?</p>
</p>
I can ask dumb questions too to fuel the argument.</p>
Shantz My Pants
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Just gonna have to wait and see I guess.
R K
Guest
You can with a Cup with Steve Mason!</p>
R K
Guest
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Trev" data-cid="208538" data-time="1378237163">
<div>
Just gonna have to wait and see I guess.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
Two Cups in four years says they know what they are doing. You, I and the rest of the arm chair GM's are just that. Arm chair GM's. </p>
</p>
Cap is no question going up.</p>
<div>
Just gonna have to wait and see I guess.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
Two Cups in four years says they know what they are doing. You, I and the rest of the arm chair GM's are just that. Arm chair GM's. </p>
</p>
Cap is no question going up.</p>
Variable
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Ton DeFrancesco" data-cid="208537" data-time="1378237097">
<div>
Niemi, no longer in Chicago behind this "stacked" team, was 2nd in wins last season, top 10 in save percent amongst starters, top 10 in GAA. So you can say he is a top 10 goaltender... easily, arguably top 5-8.</p>
</p>
But sure, keep thinking Niemi's and Crawford's of the NHL are a dime-a-dozen.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
Was he any of that the year he was with the Hawks? These are easy questions Ton, easy. He looked good next to Huet and Huet was done.</p>
<div>
Niemi, no longer in Chicago behind this "stacked" team, was 2nd in wins last season, top 10 in save percent amongst starters, top 10 in GAA. So you can say he is a top 10 goaltender... easily, arguably top 5-8.</p>
</p>
But sure, keep thinking Niemi's and Crawford's of the NHL are a dime-a-dozen.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
Was he any of that the year he was with the Hawks? These are easy questions Ton, easy. He looked good next to Huet and Huet was done.</p>
Shantz My Pants
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="R K" data-cid="208540" data-time="1378237228">
Two Cups in four years says they know what they are doing. You, I and the rest of the arm chair GM's are just that. Arm chair GM's.
Cap is no question going up.</p></blockquote>
Only good thing is we have a ton of up and comers who will need contracts, but won't have the numbers to ask for a lot due to lack of NHL experience.
Two Cups in four years says they know what they are doing. You, I and the rest of the arm chair GM's are just that. Arm chair GM's.
Cap is no question going up.</p></blockquote>
Only good thing is we have a ton of up and comers who will need contracts, but won't have the numbers to ask for a lot due to lack of NHL experience.
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What was Niemi's arbitration number that they walked from? 4.5 mil?</p>
Ton
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="208541" data-time="1378237253">
<div>
Was he any of that the year he was with the Hawks? These are easy questions Ton, easy. He looked good next to Huet and Huet was done.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
By your logic, the Hawks could have won the Cup with Huet.</p>
<div>
Was he any of that the year he was with the Hawks? These are easy questions Ton, easy. He looked good next to Huet and Huet was done.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
By your logic, the Hawks could have won the Cup with Huet.</p>
Variable
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Ton DeFrancesco" data-cid="208544" data-time="1378237566">
<div>
By your logic, the Hawks could have won the Cup with Huet.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
Huh? What? By my logic by saying an average goalie behind a great team can win a cup? After I just said Huet was done? Huet was horrible. Steve Mason has had like 2 and a half good months in his entire pro career. Those aren't average goalies, those are bad goalies. Maybe Mason gets better, but like I said, Huet was apparently past his expiration date. The kind of numbers he put up with the kind of talent that was in front of him pretty much said it all. If that team couldn't make him look good, no team in the NHL is.</p>
<div>
By your logic, the Hawks could have won the Cup with Huet.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
Huh? What? By my logic by saying an average goalie behind a great team can win a cup? After I just said Huet was done? Huet was horrible. Steve Mason has had like 2 and a half good months in his entire pro career. Those aren't average goalies, those are bad goalies. Maybe Mason gets better, but like I said, Huet was apparently past his expiration date. The kind of numbers he put up with the kind of talent that was in front of him pretty much said it all. If that team couldn't make him look good, no team in the NHL is.</p>
Variable
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MassHavoc" data-cid="208543" data-time="1378237487">
<div>
What was Niemi's arbitration number that they walked from? 4.5 mil?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
2.7m.</p>
<div>
What was Niemi's arbitration number that they walked from? 4.5 mil?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
2.7m.</p>
Ton
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Teams with $4M or more invested in their starting goaltender after 2013-2014:</p>
</p>
Boston, Carolina, Chicago, Columbus, Dallas, Detroit, Los Angeles, Montreal, Nashville, New Jersey, Pittsburgh, Phoenix, Vancouver.</p>
</p>
So 13 teams. Of those teams, 7 made the playoffs last season. Columbus would have been 8 if not for a tie breaker. In the last two seasons, 10 of those teams have made the playoffs at least once with the same goaltender that is currently under contract. Since the lockout, each team that has won a Cup is on that list except Anaheim (they are currently paying $4+ mil for Hiller, but he will be a FA... same with Lundqvist and Miller)</p>
</p>
I'm seeing a trend here. The teams not on that list are the ones that have a goaltending problem every single year. I'll take Corey Crawford for stability, at $6M.</p>
</p>
My problem is that you talk about goaltenders as if they are a dime-a-dozen.</p>
</p>
"Oh yeah, just let Corey go and pick up someone adequate for $2 million. It's easy! All the good teams do it!"</p>
</p>
Unfortunately, the reality is, no team really follows that model. It's hard to find a good goaltender. Ask Tampa what they think of Corey Crawford. Or Toronto. Or the Islanders. Or Edmonton. Or Washington. Or Minnesota. Shit, there's that big of a list? I can keep going too. These teams all believe they are in need of an "average" goaltender, as you put it, and every year they complain about the rotisserie in net.</p>
</p>
We have a homegrown talent here, a guy that most teams wish their organization can develop a guy like this... and he re-signs with us for a reasonable cost — yes it's reasonable, and people complain. It's amazing, really is.</p>
</p>
Boston, Carolina, Chicago, Columbus, Dallas, Detroit, Los Angeles, Montreal, Nashville, New Jersey, Pittsburgh, Phoenix, Vancouver.</p>
</p>
So 13 teams. Of those teams, 7 made the playoffs last season. Columbus would have been 8 if not for a tie breaker. In the last two seasons, 10 of those teams have made the playoffs at least once with the same goaltender that is currently under contract. Since the lockout, each team that has won a Cup is on that list except Anaheim (they are currently paying $4+ mil for Hiller, but he will be a FA... same with Lundqvist and Miller)</p>
</p>
I'm seeing a trend here. The teams not on that list are the ones that have a goaltending problem every single year. I'll take Corey Crawford for stability, at $6M.</p>
</p>
My problem is that you talk about goaltenders as if they are a dime-a-dozen.</p>
</p>
"Oh yeah, just let Corey go and pick up someone adequate for $2 million. It's easy! All the good teams do it!"</p>
</p>
Unfortunately, the reality is, no team really follows that model. It's hard to find a good goaltender. Ask Tampa what they think of Corey Crawford. Or Toronto. Or the Islanders. Or Edmonton. Or Washington. Or Minnesota. Shit, there's that big of a list? I can keep going too. These teams all believe they are in need of an "average" goaltender, as you put it, and every year they complain about the rotisserie in net.</p>
</p>
We have a homegrown talent here, a guy that most teams wish their organization can develop a guy like this... and he re-signs with us for a reasonable cost — yes it's reasonable, and people complain. It's amazing, really is.</p>
Variable
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None of those teams, none of them, are in the position that the Hawks are in with the kind of talent they have, both offensively and defensively. Those teams who didn't make your list, their problems aren't simply because of goal tending. Far from it. Now we're already back to the problem Rex has with deciding which argument he wants to go with, but both of them cancel each other out.</p>
</p>
It's a testament to how well the team is built that you can say, yeah, a average goalie that you pick up for a couple million will be good enough. There's not a lot of teams that can say that, but the Hawks are one of them. . The Hawks are in a position where they don't have to spend money like some teams have to in order to get a goalie that will be good enough for them due to the lack of talent they put in front of that goalie.</p>
</p>
It's a testament to how well the team is built that you can say, yeah, a average goalie that you pick up for a couple million will be good enough. There's not a lot of teams that can say that, but the Hawks are one of them. . The Hawks are in a position where they don't have to spend money like some teams have to in order to get a goalie that will be good enough for them due to the lack of talent they put in front of that goalie.</p>
Ton
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Ok Variable, you're right. You got me. The Blackhawks are the only team in the league that can get away with an average goaltender because they are so incredibly stacked.</p>
</p>
All those records they broke last season could have been done with someone cheaper in net. Because those are team accomplishments, and Corey Crawford was not a big part in them. He's just the goalie. He just needed to be average to break those records, win the Jennings, and he just was along for the ride as his old average self as the team in front of him dragged him to the Cup finals, eventually winning the Cup.</p>
</p>
Thanks for helping me see that.</p>
</p>
All those records they broke last season could have been done with someone cheaper in net. Because those are team accomplishments, and Corey Crawford was not a big part in them. He's just the goalie. He just needed to be average to break those records, win the Jennings, and he just was along for the ride as his old average self as the team in front of him dragged him to the Cup finals, eventually winning the Cup.</p>
</p>
Thanks for helping me see that.</p>
Pez68
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rex" data-cid="208519" data-time="1378228154">
<div>
lets just do the math on this one, since people are saying Crow isn't Lundqvist elite.</p>
</p>
Kari Lehtinen makes 5.9 for 5 years.</p>
Cam Ward makes 6.3 for 6 years</p>
Mike Smith makes 5.7 for 6 years</p>
Fleury makes 5 mil for 7 years </p>
</p>
the big comparison is Carey Price. Price had a terrible sophomore year, likely worse than Crawfords. Price is 2 years younger than Crawford, has never made it past the second round. 6.5 million for 6 years.</p>
</p>
I said before that I felt the term was long, but it just seems on par for market value for a goalie who in 3 years made the NHL all rookie team, Jennings Trophy, 3 straight playoff appearances, two 30 win seasons (would be three if not for the lockout) A Stanley Cup, and Conn Smythe consideration. Plus, his value would have only been higher if he made team Canada. </p>
</p>
oh, and Rask is 7 mil at 8 years. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
So your defense is that it's not the worst goalie contract in the NHL? Well, bravo.... :lol:</p>
<div>
lets just do the math on this one, since people are saying Crow isn't Lundqvist elite.</p>
</p>
Kari Lehtinen makes 5.9 for 5 years.</p>
Cam Ward makes 6.3 for 6 years</p>
Mike Smith makes 5.7 for 6 years</p>
Fleury makes 5 mil for 7 years </p>
</p>
the big comparison is Carey Price. Price had a terrible sophomore year, likely worse than Crawfords. Price is 2 years younger than Crawford, has never made it past the second round. 6.5 million for 6 years.</p>
</p>
I said before that I felt the term was long, but it just seems on par for market value for a goalie who in 3 years made the NHL all rookie team, Jennings Trophy, 3 straight playoff appearances, two 30 win seasons (would be three if not for the lockout) A Stanley Cup, and Conn Smythe consideration. Plus, his value would have only been higher if he made team Canada. </p>
</p>
oh, and Rask is 7 mil at 8 years. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
So your defense is that it's not the worst goalie contract in the NHL? Well, bravo.... :lol:</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Ton DeFrancesco" data-cid="208547" data-time="1378238922">
<div>
Teams with $4M or more invested in their starting goaltender after 2013-2014:</p>
</p>
Boston, Carolina, Chicago, Columbus, Dallas, Detroit, Los Angeles, Montreal, Nashville, New Jersey, Pittsburgh, Phoenix, Vancouver.</p>
</p>
So 13 teams. Of those teams, 7 made the playoffs last season. Columbus would have been 8 if not for a tie breaker. In the last two seasons, 10 of those teams have made the playoffs at least once with the same goaltender that is currently under contract. Since the lockout, each team that has won a Cup is on that list except Anaheim (they are currently paying $4+ mil for Hiller, but he will be a FA... same with Lundqvist and Miller)</p>
</p>
I'm seeing a trend here. The teams not on that list are the ones that have a goaltending problem every single year. I'll take Corey Crawford for stability, at $6M.</p>
</p>
My problem is that you talk about goaltenders as if they are a dime-a-dozen.</p>
</p>
"Oh yeah, just let Corey go and pick up someone adequate for $2 million. It's easy! All the good teams do it!"</p>
</p>
Unfortunately, the reality is, no team really follows that model. It's hard to find a good goaltender. Ask Tampa what they think of Corey Crawford. Or Toronto. Or the Islanders. Or Edmonton. Or Washington. Or Minnesota. Shit, there's that big of a list? I can keep going too. These teams all believe they are in need of an "average" goaltender, as you put it, and every year they complain about the rotisserie in net.</p>
</p>
We have a homegrown talent here, a guy that most teams wish their organization can develop a guy like this... and he re-signs with us for a reasonable cost — yes it's reasonable, and people complain. It's amazing, really is.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
Looking at the goaltender salaries http://capgeek.com/leaders/?season=2013&type=SALARY&position=G&limit=25</p>
</p>
and seeing the trends of when they were signed length and such. I'm feeling a little better about this contract. I would have liked one less year, but who knows maybe he'll retired at 34 haha. Either way when his contract is done in 2020 (unless the contract supersedes his final year? but they called it an extension) he'll be 34, and making 6 mil. Which is still less than quick who will have 3 more years at 7 mil and is only a year younger. Luongo who I don't have to explain. and Rask who will have one more year at 6 mil and is two years younger. Looks to be 13 goalies making 5+ mil like was said, and this puts him squarely in the middle. I bet he'll move down as time goes down and GMs continue to overpay. So I think this is a good deal for a great guy in the locker room who has been just as patient with the organization and they have been with him.</p>
<div>
Teams with $4M or more invested in their starting goaltender after 2013-2014:</p>
</p>
Boston, Carolina, Chicago, Columbus, Dallas, Detroit, Los Angeles, Montreal, Nashville, New Jersey, Pittsburgh, Phoenix, Vancouver.</p>
</p>
So 13 teams. Of those teams, 7 made the playoffs last season. Columbus would have been 8 if not for a tie breaker. In the last two seasons, 10 of those teams have made the playoffs at least once with the same goaltender that is currently under contract. Since the lockout, each team that has won a Cup is on that list except Anaheim (they are currently paying $4+ mil for Hiller, but he will be a FA... same with Lundqvist and Miller)</p>
</p>
I'm seeing a trend here. The teams not on that list are the ones that have a goaltending problem every single year. I'll take Corey Crawford for stability, at $6M.</p>
</p>
My problem is that you talk about goaltenders as if they are a dime-a-dozen.</p>
</p>
"Oh yeah, just let Corey go and pick up someone adequate for $2 million. It's easy! All the good teams do it!"</p>
</p>
Unfortunately, the reality is, no team really follows that model. It's hard to find a good goaltender. Ask Tampa what they think of Corey Crawford. Or Toronto. Or the Islanders. Or Edmonton. Or Washington. Or Minnesota. Shit, there's that big of a list? I can keep going too. These teams all believe they are in need of an "average" goaltender, as you put it, and every year they complain about the rotisserie in net.</p>
</p>
We have a homegrown talent here, a guy that most teams wish their organization can develop a guy like this... and he re-signs with us for a reasonable cost — yes it's reasonable, and people complain. It's amazing, really is.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
Looking at the goaltender salaries http://capgeek.com/leaders/?season=2013&type=SALARY&position=G&limit=25</p>
</p>
and seeing the trends of when they were signed length and such. I'm feeling a little better about this contract. I would have liked one less year, but who knows maybe he'll retired at 34 haha. Either way when his contract is done in 2020 (unless the contract supersedes his final year? but they called it an extension) he'll be 34, and making 6 mil. Which is still less than quick who will have 3 more years at 7 mil and is only a year younger. Luongo who I don't have to explain. and Rask who will have one more year at 6 mil and is two years younger. Looks to be 13 goalies making 5+ mil like was said, and this puts him squarely in the middle. I bet he'll move down as time goes down and GMs continue to overpay. So I think this is a good deal for a great guy in the locker room who has been just as patient with the organization and they have been with him.</p>
Pez68
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Ton DeFrancesco" data-cid="208549" data-time="1378240256">
<div>
Ok Variable, you're right. You got me. The Blackhawks are the only team in the league that can get away with an average goaltender because they are so incredibly stacked.</p>
</p>
All those records they broke last season could have been done with someone cheaper in net. Because those are team accomplishments, and Corey Crawford was not a big part in them. He's just the goalie. He just needed to be average to break those records, win the Jennings, and he just was along for the ride as his old average self as the team in front of him dragged him to the Cup finals, eventually winning the Cup.</p>
</p>
Thanks for helping me see that.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
</p>
Emery's upcoming season will be pretty telling.... You really think Emery is as good as the numbers he put up last season??</p>
<div>
Ok Variable, you're right. You got me. The Blackhawks are the only team in the league that can get away with an average goaltender because they are so incredibly stacked.</p>
</p>
All those records they broke last season could have been done with someone cheaper in net. Because those are team accomplishments, and Corey Crawford was not a big part in them. He's just the goalie. He just needed to be average to break those records, win the Jennings, and he just was along for the ride as his old average self as the team in front of him dragged him to the Cup finals, eventually winning the Cup.</p>
</p>
Thanks for helping me see that.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
</p>
Emery's upcoming season will be pretty telling.... You really think Emery is as good as the numbers he put up last season??</p>
Variable
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Ton DeFrancesco" data-cid="208549" data-time="1378240256">
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Ok Variable, you're right. You got me. The Blackhawks are the only team in the league that can get away with an average goaltender because they are so incredibly stacked.</p>
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All those records they broke last season could have been done with someone cheaper in net. Because those are team accomplishments, and Corey Crawford was not a big part in them. He's just the goalie. He just needed to be average to break those records, win the Jennings, and he just was along for the ride as his old average self as the team in front of him dragged him to the Cup finals, eventually winning the Cup.</p>
</p>
Thanks for helping me see that.</p>
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</blockquote>
</p>
lol, see now you have to exaggerate in order to respond. Why? Those are team accomplishments, Robo-Hip Emery won 20 games with this team, he may struggle to win 20 games as a starter in Philly with how they play defense. But I never said Crawford was just along for the ride. Now we're getting into weird territory where people actually have to make themselves believe that the Hawks really aren't as good as they think they were in order to make their argument work. And this coming from the guy who before this season started, as I had said, had predicted the Hawks as being the Juggernaut on ice. And you were right. They were the fucking Juggernaut on ice. They were that good. All to do with Corey? No. Part of it, yes. But not the majority of the reason. Not reason enough for a 6 million dollar contract.</p>
<div>
Ok Variable, you're right. You got me. The Blackhawks are the only team in the league that can get away with an average goaltender because they are so incredibly stacked.</p>
</p>
All those records they broke last season could have been done with someone cheaper in net. Because those are team accomplishments, and Corey Crawford was not a big part in them. He's just the goalie. He just needed to be average to break those records, win the Jennings, and he just was along for the ride as his old average self as the team in front of him dragged him to the Cup finals, eventually winning the Cup.</p>
</p>
Thanks for helping me see that.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
lol, see now you have to exaggerate in order to respond. Why? Those are team accomplishments, Robo-Hip Emery won 20 games with this team, he may struggle to win 20 games as a starter in Philly with how they play defense. But I never said Crawford was just along for the ride. Now we're getting into weird territory where people actually have to make themselves believe that the Hawks really aren't as good as they think they were in order to make their argument work. And this coming from the guy who before this season started, as I had said, had predicted the Hawks as being the Juggernaut on ice. And you were right. They were the fucking Juggernaut on ice. They were that good. All to do with Corey? No. Part of it, yes. But not the majority of the reason. Not reason enough for a 6 million dollar contract.</p>