Cubs Farm System And Prospects Discussion Thread

beckdawg

Well-known member
Joined:
Oct 31, 2012
Posts:
11,751
Liked Posts:
3,743
So you are saying he needs to develop command of the strike zone.

Well that but it's more than that. Great pitchers know how and when to pitch to contact. He's not abnormal for a young guy with his skillset but guys like that will often try to strike everyone out rather than pitching effective.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,788
Liked Posts:
2,860
Location:
San Diego
Well that but it's more than that. Great pitchers know how and when to pitch to contact. He's not abnormal for a young guy with his skillset but guys like that will often try to strike everyone out rather than pitching effective.

To have control over one’s pitches means that a pitcher is able to throw strikes. Not just out of the zone swings and misses either, but actual called strikes. A pitcher needs to exhibit the ability to throw a fastball for a strike at any time during an at-bat. They need to make sure that their breaking balls will cross the plate in the strike zone.

If a pitcher is routinely recording quick outs and getting ahead of hitters (0-2 and 1-2 counts) than he has good control because he is routinely throwing strikes.

Without control, basically all hell breaks loose for the guy on the mound. If you don’t have a good feel for your pitches, then it’s going to be a night of free base runners and a lot of runs due to unintentional walks and undoubtedly a multitude of pitches up in the zone.

Some pitchers that have mastered the art of control are Roy Halladay, Mariano Rivera, Tim Lincemcum, and the recently retired Mike Mussina.


Command

Now command can really be a sub-set category under control. Once a pitcher gains control over their pitches they must then move on to learning command. Pitchers with good command have the talent to place their pitches any where they want within the strike zone; they are able to throw not just strikes, but good strikes.

A normal strike can just be a fastball up in the zone that the hitter just misses. A good strike can be a pitch that just gets the outside corner and sends a batter back to the dugout or a ball tailing inside that jams a hitter.

Older pitchers who can’t throw as hard as they used but are still finding at least moderate success (Trevor Hoffman, Jamie Moyer, and Randy Johnson) have all mastered command. Sure they can’t burn you with a 95 plus fastball, but they could ring you up with an 88 MPH cutter that paints the corners or a 76 MPH curve that crosses the plate just at the knees.

Command and control…similar, but not quite the same. These two skills are necessary for any pitcher who wants to elevate their game to the next level. Without the ability to control and command, you will be riding that minor league bus for a long long time.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,788
Liked Posts:
2,860
Location:
San Diego
Dated article but it breaks it down well
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,788
Liked Posts:
2,860
Location:
San Diego
May 2, 2017 Iowa Cubs placed 2B Ian Happ on the 7-day disabled list. Bruised left thumb
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,788
Liked Posts:
2,860
Location:
San Diego
They need to think of promoting a Tenn starter. Buchanan and Williams are getting wrecked today.

1: Tseng:----------3.67 ERA---8.6 H/9---1.67 BB/9---7 SO/9
2: Hedges:--------2.51 ERA---8.49 H/9---1.57 BB/9---5.34 SO/9
3: Clifton:---------2.77 ERA---8.30 H/9---3.46 BB/9---7.27 SO/9
4: Morrison:------4.26 ERA---7.11 H/9---3.20 BB/9---6.05 SO/9
5. Underwood:--3.60 ERA ---8.55 H/9---1.8 BB/9---7.65 SO/9
 

Diehardfan

Well-known member
Joined:
Jun 10, 2010
Posts:
9,618
Liked Posts:
7,005
Location:
Western Burbs
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
Just heard on TV that the Cubs at least got something for Szczur....Justin Hancock, a pitcher in the Padres system. Never heard of him. Maybe some of you minor league gurus might know something about him.
 

beckdawg

Well-known member
Joined:
Oct 31, 2012
Posts:
11,751
Liked Posts:
3,743
Just heard on TV that the Cubs at least got something for Szczur....Justin Hancock, a pitcher in the Padres system. Never heard of him. Maybe some of you minor league gurus might know something about him.

He's not much of a prospect. That's not to say he can't end up being a good player but near as I can tell he's never been among SD's top 20 prospects. Fangraphs had a little write up on him from 2014. Basically said he's 92-94 with a plus change up. The read I get from his stats and the little I could dig up on him reminds me of say a Ryan Williams. That is to say a guy with mediocre tools but who can probably be a back of the rotation starter.

Looks like he missed about half of 2014 and almost all of 2016. Overall I would say it really thrills me but you can never have too much upper level pitching. Plus he fits the mold of the prototypical guy the cubs often go after which in essence is Hendricks types. Maybe they see something in him that other teams don't value as much.
 

beckdawg

Well-known member
Joined:
Oct 31, 2012
Posts:
11,751
Liked Posts:
3,743
He's not much of a prospect. That's not to say he can't end up being a good player but near as I can tell he's never been among SD's top 20 prospects. Fangraphs had a little write up on him from 2014. Basically said he's 92-94 with a plus change up. The read I get from his stats and the little I could dig up on him reminds me of say a Ryan Williams. That is to say a guy with mediocre tools but who can probably be a back of the rotation starter.

Looks like he missed about half of 2014 and almost all of 2016. Overall I would say it really thrills me but you can never have too much upper level pitching. Plus he fits the mold of the prototypical guy the cubs often go after which in essence is Hendricks types. Maybe they see something in him that other teams don't value as much.

IDK how accurate this is but I saw another comment that linked this which supposedly had pitch f/x showing him throwing 100. I doubt that personally but the fangraphs info i saw was dated so maybe he found some velocity.
 

Diehardfan

Well-known member
Joined:
Jun 10, 2010
Posts:
9,618
Liked Posts:
7,005
Location:
Western Burbs
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
IDK how accurate this is but I saw another comment that linked this which supposedly had pitch f/x showing him throwing 100. I doubt that personally but the fangraphs info i saw was dated so maybe he found some velocity.

Maybe they're selling 100 MPH fastball ointment at GNC. :)
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,788
Liked Posts:
2,860
Location:
San Diego
David Rollins pretty much shit the bed in Iowa. Ruined Happ's 5 RBI game. Candi and Caratini had big games. Both hitting over .335 now.

Im almost thinking that they should deal Montero this summer and promote Caratini. He seems like he could be a league starter.
 

TC in Mississippi

CCS Staff
Joined:
Oct 22, 2014
Posts:
5,305
Liked Posts:
1,816
David Rollins pretty much shit the bed in Iowa. Ruined Happ's 5 RBI game. Candi and Caratini had big games. Both hitting over .335 now.

Im almost thinking that they should deal Montero this summer and promote Caratini. He seems like he could be a league starter.

There would have to be a contending team with an injured catcher for that to happen, but I would think if that situation arose Theo and Jed would be all over it.
 

fatbeard

Well-known member
Joined:
Dec 25, 2013
Posts:
13,193
Liked Posts:
11,018
David Rollins pretty much shit the bed in Iowa. Ruined Happ's 5 RBI game. Candi and Caratini had big games. Both hitting over .335 now.

Im almost thinking that they should deal Montero this summer and promote Caratini. He seems like he could be a league starter.

I really doubt Epstein and Hoyer would be comfortable rolling into the playoffs with a combined one year of MLB experience between their two catchers.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,788
Liked Posts:
2,860
Location:
San Diego
I really doubt Epstein and Hoyer would be comfortable rolling into the playoffs with a combined one year of MLB experience between their two catchers.

Contreras caught almost all of last play offs except for Lester's games.

Getting Caratini MLB games in at the deadline for the playoffs factors more long term than Montero right now.

That said I would showcase Montero until then. Stabilize the rotation with him. Let Contreras catch Lester and Hendricks. Montero the rest. Then if a deal comes up pull the trigger. Montero has looked really good in his games and Contreras has been error prone. Not really a stabilizing factor.
 

chibears55

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 18, 2013
Posts:
13,554
Liked Posts:
1,915
David Rollins pretty much shit the bed in Iowa. Ruined Happ's 5 RBI game. Candi and Caratini had big games. Both hitting over .335 now.

Im almost thinking that they should deal Montero this summer and promote Caratini. He seems like he could be a league starter.
only thing I'm thinking is would they go with two young catchers ?

I think in off season they might trade one of Contreras or Caratini and have a veteran back up

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,788
Liked Posts:
2,860
Location:
San Diego
only thing I'm thinking is would they go with two young catchers ?

I think in off season they might trade one of Contreras or Caratini and have a veteran back up

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

Depends on the weight of the return. Hann said he is open to a deal with any team and the only teams that make him hesitant are in division. So if we are talking a deal for Q. Then either catcher would be on the table. Caratini went 4-4 and is a SH. He is a hot item along with Candi and Happ. All are ML ready.
 

beckdawg

Well-known member
Joined:
Oct 31, 2012
Posts:
11,751
Liked Posts:
3,743
from cubs den...

The extended spring training team was in Scottsdale today to play the Giants with top pitching prospect Jose Albertos on the mound. He did not disappoint, throwing mostly in the mid 90s and topping out at 96 while going three scoreless innings. One fastball in particular got some oohs and ahhs, a 96 mph heater that ran in on the RH hitter and broke his bat, but it was a mixed bag overall. Albertos had trouble getting a feel for his curve and the command was spotty. Again, it's all part of trying to get back in sync after the long layoff, but we have to be encouraged that the arm strength is there.
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,788
Liked Posts:
2,860
Location:
San Diego
Butler was called up to take Anderson's spot. Grimm demoted.

I'm really hoping this is the turning point. Candy in the mix and Butler up. Butler has looked really good. Except for his SO/9 in Iowa. Not sure if it is the league being free swinging and him pitching to lite contact or is it not a strong point for him.
 

TC in Mississippi

CCS Staff
Joined:
Oct 22, 2014
Posts:
5,305
Liked Posts:
1,816
Butler was called up to take Anderson's spot. Grimm demoted.

I'm really hoping this is the turning point. Candy in the mix and Butler up. Butler has looked really good. Except for his SO/9 in Iowa. Not sure if it is the league being free swinging and him pitching to lite contact or is it not a strong point for him.

His K/9 concerns me but its has shown signs of improving. In his last start he struck out 6 batters in 6 innings. Early in his minor league career the K/9 was about 8 but after Colorado asked him to throw less of his then excellent change it went down to about 5 and has stayed there even through his early improvement with the Cubs organization. I've seen footage of 2 of his starts at Iowa and liked what I saw in ST. He's got solid stuff, now he has to put it together on the big league level. I would have liked for him to have stayed down in AAA most of the season but desperate times and all that...
 

CSF77

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 16, 2013
Posts:
18,788
Liked Posts:
2,860
Location:
San Diego
I'm actually thinking that they put him in AAA to focus on lite contact like Jake and Kyle are good at. That way he can get deeper into games.

0 HR in 30 IP in Iowa sticks out here.
 

Top