Cubs post trade deadline 2023 outlook

TL1961

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never said they are going to win the world series but this team as I put it can make the playoffs. You can make the playoffs on the way to waiting for the youngsters to develop in the minors. The Cubs have the money well at least they should field a competitive team.

As much as Rizzo, Bryant and Baez were fan favorites maybe Rizzo would have been worth an extension but Bryant with all the injuries and Baez being a blackhole offensively was the right move to let them go.

Why can't you compete while waiting for the youngsters to get ready in the minors? You add a few key offensive additions and sort out the top of the rotation and the rest of the piece would be good for the next few years. Tanking for the top of the draft, especially with the new lottery doesn't guarantee you a top overall pick anymore.

You bring in say a Bell and Correra now you have 2 big bats in the middle of the lineup so offensively. Sort out the top of the rotation you have enough depth to compete.

As for Morel, he is just a placeholder until PCA is ready, and even then why can't he be a super utility on a good team?

At what point do you say we are done with the rebuild? How many more prospects do you need to acquire vs real MLB talent?

As for Josh Bell have a look at the teams that gave up on him and that will answer your own question about him. Pirates who are a perpetual rebuilding team and the Nationals who just traded away a top 5 talent in baseball and are going into a decade-long rebuild. Bell was picked up by whom??? Oh yeah a contender who traded away a 15-year veteran for him.

Not every tank is an Astros tank even now when they have been good for a number of years they are still drafting well. Why can't the Cubs draft well at whatever position they end up in.

No reason not to try and compete while adding good draft picks and making smart trades along the way.
I am not arguing at all that about whether it was the right move to let them go. I am saying it is screaming “rebuild“ and you don’t hear it. I’m not saying rebuild is the wrong thing to do. I am simply saying this is the textbook example of a rebuild.
 

TL1961

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When did they spent to early? Maybe Hosmer, but they have a core of young talent. They are all in. I think the Padres did what they had to do and its not like its this season or bust.

They lost 4 in a row. Still a good chunk of season and Tatis Machado Soto trifecta is damn terrifying,
The Padres have been winners of the off-season since the off-season in which the cubs sign John Lester. The Cubs were on the cusp and Jon Lester and the Padres were the talk of the town. AJ Preller has been getting praise for eight years and his team is one exactly nothing zip zilch nada. Might they win now with that trifecta? Sure. If they make the playoffs that is. But they have nothing in the pipeline after this
 

TL1961

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I see ESPN has a ranking of all teams farm systems post trade deadline. I’m not asking anyone to repost the article that’s behind a pay wall but where do they have the Cubs ranked out of the 32 teams?
 

SilenceS

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The Padres have been winners of the off-season since the off-season in which the cubs sign John Lester. The Cubs were on the cusp and Jon Lester and the Padres were the talk of the town. AJ Preller has been getting praise for eight years and his team is one exactly nothing zip zilch nada. Might they win now with that trifecta? Sure. If they make the playoffs that is. But they have nothing in the pipeline after this
Their core is super young and even if they have to trade off. They could get a haul for most.

You have Tatis and Soto at 23. Machado is 30. Cronenworth is what 27. All pitchers are under 30. A couple right moves or production and this team easily has a 2 to 3 year window.
 

SilenceS

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I see ESPN has a ranking of all teams farm systems post trade deadline. I’m not asking anyone to repost the article that’s behind a pay wall but where do they have the Cubs ranked out of the 32 teams?
18th
 

knoxville7

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Their core is super young and even if they have to trade off. They could get a haul for most.

You have Tatis and Soto at 23. Machado is 30. Cronenworth is what 27. All pitchers are under 30. A couple right moves or production and this team easily has a 2 to 3 year window.
Darvish is 36, clevinger is about to be 32, manaea is 30, and snell and musgrove turn 30 this year. They aren’t the young core of pitchers you are making them out to be.
 

SilenceS

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Darvish is 36, clevinger is about to be 32, manaea is 30, and snell and musgrove turn 30 this year. They aren’t the young core of pitchers you are making them out to be.
The core is their hitters. There pitchers have years of production in them. They are all in but its not this one year of a go
 

TL1961

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The core is their hitters. There pitchers have years of production in them. They are all in but its not this one year of a go
Well, I agree it's not a one year window. The whole allure of Soto was that he would be there for three postseasons - assuming they can actually get there.
 

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Cubs To Release Jason Heyward At End Of Season

By Darragh McDonald | August 8, 2022 at 6:15pm CDT

Cubs president of baseball operations Jed Hoyer spoke to reporters, including Jesse Rogers of ESPN, relaying that outfielder Jason Heyward will not be with the club in 2023. That would be the last year of Heyward’s contract, but it seems the club will go in a different direction. Heyward is currently on the injured list with a knee injury, which Hoyer says he is unlikely to return from this year, per Maddie Lee of the Chicago Sun-Times. That means it’s possible Heyward has already appeared in his last game as a Cub. Hoyer says that Heyward will eventually be released, but will stick around the clubhouse while on the IL for the rest of the year due to his respected clubhouse presence, per Patrick Mooney of The Athletic. Hoyer says that he and Heyward have discussed the situation “at length,” per Rogers, with the Cubs wanting to give more time to younger players but Heyward wanting to continue playing. By releasing him for the offseason, he can return to free agency and look for his next team this winter.
It’s a noteworthy but hardly shocking development, considering how Heyward has performed over the life of the contract. After five seasons with Atlanta and one in St. Louis, the Cubs signed Heyward in December of 2015 to an eight-year, $184MM contract. At the time, the Cubs had just come out of a rebuild, making the postseason for the first time since 2008, still looking to snap their World Series drought that had been ongoing since 1908. One year previously, the club had signed Jon Lester as a way to signal their return to competition and the Heyward deal was one of many in the 2015-2016 season that compounded the club’s serious intentions.
In the first year of the deal, Heyward still provided excellent defense the same way he always had, but his offensive production took a nosedive. He hit .230/.306/.325 for a wRC+ of 72, or production 28% below league average, after having a wRC+ between 109 and 121 over the previous three seasons. His glovework still allowed him to produce 1.0 wins above replacement on the year, per FanGraphs, but it surely wasn’t what the Cubs had in mind when they laid out that massive contract. Nonetheless, the Cubs won the World Series for the first time in 108 years, which surely helped washed down any bitter aftertaste for a while.
Heyward improved slightly in the years to come but still struggled to get back to the form he showed prior to coming to Chicago. From 2017 to 2019, he hit .260/.335/.406 for a 96 wRC+ He seemed to turn a corner in the shortened 2020 campaign, as he hit .265/.392/.456 for a wRC+ of 129, accruing 1.6 fWAR in just 50 games. However, he crashed back down to earth last year, hitting a paltry .214/.280/.347 for a wRC+ of just 68.
Despite those ups and down at the plate, he’s always been a productive player due to his defense. Even with last year’s mediocre output at the plate, he was still worth 0.1 fWAR on the year. Here in 2022, however, things have continued to slide, with Heyward hitting a meager .204/.278/.277 for a wRC+ of just 59, causing him to slip below replacement level for the first time.
Over the span of his contract, the Cubs shut their competitive window and entered another rebuild phase, with Kris Bryant, Anthony Rizzo, Javier Baez and other faces of their championship team sent elsewhere. With the roster now largely devoted to younger players, it seems they will devote their playing time to those guys, with Heyward getting nudged out. Hoyer mentioned Nelson Velazquez and Christopher Morel as two such players who could take over some of Heyward’s role, per Meghan Montemurro of the Chicago Tribune.
Heyward’s contract runs through 2023, with his salary set to be $22MM for that campaign. Given his performance in recent years, he will surely go unclaimed whenever he is placed on release waivers. He will then be free to sign with any team, with that club only having to pay the league minimum, with that amount being subtracted from what the Cubs pay.
Although this day has surely seemed inevitable for some time, it’s likely still emotional for many Cub fans. While there are segments of the fanbase that have grown impatient and been outwardly calling for this for some time, Heyward was still an integral part of one of the most important eras of Cubs’ baseball history, if not the most important. While he may have fallen short of some of the loftiest expectations, he was still a productive part of a team that broke a century-old title drought, making the playoffs in four out of his first five years with the club. Though Heyward could still land with another team next season, he will likely be forever associated with his time as part a legendary run of Cubs baseball.
 

JP Hochbaum

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Damn, my assumption was right, No Heyward next year. It had to go this way, too much young talent and he was well below replacement level.
 

Zvbxrpl

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And the Padres ought to be a great example for Cubs fans that spending wildly and trading away the farm too early, can be disastrous.
The cubs ought to be a great example for cubs fans that spending wildly and trading away the farm too early can be disastrous.

Unless you old coots are senile enough to have forgotten Jim Hendry.

FIFY

As for Heyward, nobody should be surprised.
 

knoxville7

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The core is their hitters. There pitchers have years of production in them. They are all in but its not this one year of a go
Okayyyy. I was responding to you saying “All their pitchers are under 30.” Well, they aren’t
 

SilenceS

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The cubs ought to be a great example for cubs fans that spending wildly and trading away the farm too early can be disastrous.

Unless you old coots are senile enough to have forgotten Jim Hendry.

FIFY

As for Heyward, nobody should be surprised.
The old Jim Hendry complaint. Guy was a solid GM with terrible ownership. He didnt even sign Soriano. That was Kenney to inflate the franchise for sale. Matt Garza was a last ditch effort to win now for ownership with MB. Hendry built a farm and teams to compete. Ownership was the problem.
 

Zvbxrpl

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The old Jim Hendry complaint. Guy was a solid GM with terrible ownership. He didnt even sign Soriano. That was Kenney to inflate the franchise for sale. Matt Garza was a last ditch effort to win now for ownership with MB. Hendry built a farm and teams to compete. Ownership was the problem.
Oh great. The dumbest mod on the board is here…

My response was in context to someone saying another team being an example of what not to do. But it’s funny that the shoes on the other foot now—back then I defended hendry and competing/rebuilding simultaneously and now you are and I’m the opposite.

Who needed Josh Donaldson when you could have damaged goods in Rich Harden?

The rays got Matt Garza’s best years, along with Chris Archer’s.

Wasn’t there a year or two they paid Milton Bradley and Carlos Silva’s salaries?

Dontrelle Willis for Matt Clement, anyone?

Sure, he fleeced a couple of teams. He made good moves, though I’m sure you’ll twist what I say. Fangraphs did a fantastic, brutally honest review of Hendry, and they were right. He fixated way too much on the wrong guys too much he couldn’t see the forest for the trees.

So the Cubs spent nearly a billion bucks on players under Hendry, the fourth-highest total of any team. And for all that, they only went .500 (749-748) under hendry.

But yeah. Ownership was the problem, not the guy who swung and missed far more than hitting on guys and left the farm so bare at the end a full tear down was necessary.
 

Diehardfan

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Their core is super young and even if they have to trade off. They could get a haul for most.

You have Tatis and Soto at 23. Machado is 30. Cronenworth is what 27. All pitchers are under 30. A couple right moves or production and this team easily has a 2 to 3 year window.
Interesting........in 2016.......Rizzo was 26......Baez, Bryant, Soler and Willy were all 24.......Schwarber 23 and Russell 22.

Only starter under 30 was Hendricks at 27.

Windows don't mean squat....a lot of things need to fall in place to win it all.

If the Padres are gonna get a WS ticket, it better be soon.
 

knoxville7

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Oh great. The dumbest mod on the board is here…

My response was in context to someone saying another team being an example of what not to do. But it’s funny that the shoes on the other foot now—back then I defended hendry and competing/rebuilding simultaneously and now you are and I’m the opposite.

Who needed Josh Donaldson when you could have damaged goods in Rich Harden?

The rays got Matt Garza’s best years, along with Chris Archer’s.

Wasn’t there a year or two they paid Milton Bradley and Carlos Silva’s salaries?

Dontrelle Willis for Matt Clement, anyone?

Sure, he fleeced a couple of teams. He made good moves, though I’m sure you’ll twist what I say. Fangraphs did a fantastic, brutally honest review of Hendry, and they were right. He fixated way too much on the wrong guys too much he couldn’t see the forest for the trees.

So the Cubs spent nearly a billion bucks on players under Hendry, the fourth-highest total of any team. And for all that, they only went .500 (749-748) under hendry.

But yeah. Ownership was the problem, not the guy who swung and missed far more than hitting on guys and left the farm so bare at the end a full tear down was necessary.
The rich harden trade at the time was loved by the vast majority. He was a stud when healthy, absolutely unhittable. and Matt clement wasn’t some scrub either…plus, that chin beard was on point

You’re using a bit of hindsight, but overall your point remains.
 

SilenceS

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Oh great. The dumbest mod on the board is here…

My response was in context to someone saying another team being an example of what not to do. But it’s funny that the shoes on the other foot now—back then I defended hendry and competing/rebuilding simultaneously and now you are and I’m the opposite.

Who needed Josh Donaldson when you could have damaged goods in Rich Harden?

The rays got Matt Garza’s best years, along with Chris Archer’s.

Wasn’t there a year or two they paid Milton Bradley and Carlos Silva’s salaries?

Dontrelle Willis for Matt Clement, anyone?

Sure, he fleeced a couple of teams. He made good moves, though I’m sure you’ll twist what I say. Fangraphs did a fantastic, brutally honest review of Hendry, and they were right. He fixated way too much on the wrong guys too much he couldn’t see the forest for the trees.

So the Cubs spent nearly a billion bucks on players under Hendry, the fourth-highest total of any team. And for all that, they only went .500 (749-748) under hendry.

But yeah. Ownership was the problem, not the guy who swung and missed far more than hitting on guys and left the farm so bare at the end a full tear down was necessary.
You seem very angry when you post. Are you the Lahey of your trailer park?
 

SilenceS

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The rich harden trade at the time was loved by the vast majority. He was a stud when healthy, absolutely unhittable. and Matt clement wasn’t some scrub either…plus, that chin beard was on point

You’re using a bit of hindsight, but overall your point remains.
Its all hindsight and dismissing the sale of a team and the inflation ownership called for. Hendry went through some bad luck with injuries to Prior and Wood and was hand tied due to waiting for them. Then, the push to win now while selling made him dump the farm and go for it.

He still ignores Soriano not even being signed by Hendry who was the biggest contract.

He also ignore the Derreck Lee for Hee Sop Choi and the vast majority of trades that were right. The 2008 team fell short but that was a good team.

Hendry wasnt perfect or the best GM in the league but he was giving a no win situation unless they won in that 2 year window.
 

SilenceS

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Interesting........in 2016.......Rizzo was 26......Baez, Bryant, Soler and Willy were all 24.......Schwarber 23 and Russell 22.

Only starter under 30 was Hendricks at 27.

Windows don't mean squat....a lot of things need to fall in place to win it all.

If the Padres are gonna get a WS ticket, it better be soon.
Yes, the window. Also, Machado, Tatis, and Soto are better than any of our core at that time.

They arent all in just for this year. My whole point.
 

Diehardfan

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Yes, the window. Also, Machado, Tatis, and Soto are better than any of our core at that time.

They arent all in just for this year. My whole point.
Subjective. They aren't better than anybody till they win something.
 

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