Cub's Prospect Watch And Development Discussion Thread

[CSF77]

I just don't really see holding on to zambrano as every being a realistic option. He wasn't particularly good in 2012 or the year prior and hasn't pitched in the majors since not to mention the obvious personality issues there. I suppose you could make the argument for him being similar to what Jackson gave the cubs in 2013 but again I'm not sure that makes them any better. I'm not sure they would be that much worse either but Volstad was a young pitcher(25) who had pitched at a similar level to Zambrano the prior year. Clearly they were hoping for a Wood like deal and didn't get that.

At the end of the day I just don't see the point in this type of mental exercise. Even if you say Ramirez was the 5.7 WAR player he was with the Brewers what's that make the cubs? That's maybe a high 60's low 70's win 2012 and a mid 70's win team in 2013. And more importantly, Zambrano and Ramirez really don't offer anything towards a longer term team when you would hope to be more competitive. So, it's a largely irrelevant discussion.

How many one one losses did the Cubs suffer those 2 years?

 

[CSF77]

So for all the complaining here about some of the deals made 2 -3 yrs ago about players not even in the game today , it comes down to could've had LeMahieu over Barney now. Yet I bet most of you were all on the Barney train in 2012 when he was winning the GG and hitting a bit.
I think its time to move on from the crocodile tears from these minor moves made then and as a fan focus more on what going on now and their near future

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It is not just 1 move made. It was a move made to back fill 3B with a flop player. Vs giving A-Ram a 3 year deal. Which they could have paid as I illustrated. The fact they gave Jackson a contract like they did just proves that they did have the ability to retain.

It just felt like Theo just wanted his signed players on the field not Hendry's.

 

[SilenceS]

So for all the complaining here about some of the deals made 2 -3 yrs ago about players not even in the game today , it comes down to could've had LeMahieu over Barney now. Yet I bet most of you were all on the Barney train in 2012 when he was winning the GG and hitting a bit.
I think its time to move on from the crocodile tears from these minor moves made then and as a fan focus more on what going on now and their near future

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No, I never believed in Barney and thought BP should have won the GG.

Its not a big deal but its comical howb people say it was a wash. It was not. Even Theo admitted he jumped the gun on the trade. I dont know why fans cant admit the same trhing.

 

[chibears55]

No, I never believed in Barney and thought BP should have won the GG.

Its not a big deal but its comical howb people say it was a wash. It was not. Even Theo admitted he jumped the gun on the trade. I dont know why fans cant admit the same trhing.

Because It really doesn't matter today...
at the time of the trade I questioned LeMahieu being involved but to continue to harp on it today is pretty silly. ..
Im looking ahead to either Baez or Alcantara playing 2B for this team right now , not gonna spend my time dwelling on past moves that wouldn't of made much of a difference anyways to where this team finished the last 2 yrs.


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[chibears55]

It is not just 1 move made. It was a move made to back fill 3B with a flop player. Vs giving A-Ram a 3 year deal. Which they could have paid as I illustrated. The fact they gave Jackson a contract like they did just proves that they did have the ability to retain.

It just felt like Theo just wanted his signed players on the field not Hendry's.

would retaining A-Ram gotten us to playoffs ? Probably not

So all in all does it really matter he wasn't brought back ? No

as far as his guys over hendry, correct me if im wrong here.
Castillo barney castro lake samardzija. Russell Baez,
All Hendry guys ?

Most of those players from the last hendry team (2011) are not missed, so I wouldn't dwell too much on the roster being turned over with theo guys over hendry today...


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[CSF77]

Shark was never given a shot to start. theo got to prove Hendry wrong. Castillo stuck for 2 years in AAA being blocked by Soto.... Lake in A ball at the time.....Barney and Castro were the only 2 and they were cheap assets at that time.

Let's see: take over. Let let A-Ram walk. Trade Z. Trade Colvin and LaMaheu, let Flahaty and (forget his name) open to be snagged via rule V. Remember at AAA LaMaheu and Flarhaty were the 2B 3B combo and both are part of their teams. Both can play 3B. They got kicked out like trash.

Then they sign trade goods as back fill.

Even this year: What is Hammel anyways? Trade chip.


McDonnald is this years Baker.

They are not trying to win at all.

 

[CSF77]

All I'm saying is every move made has an adjenda. To be used as trade goods while the team takes a nose dive to get a better draft pick. There seems to be no end to this trend.

Look this year we could be looking at Hammel and shark traded. Boni sold high and the team really no better. Cheaper sure. Even if Hendricks promotes. Is he better than shark? I would guess no but he is sure cheaper.

I'm not a fan of the way they do busness.

 

[chibears55]

All I'm saying is every move made has an adjenda. To be used as trade goods while the team takes a nose dive to get a better draft pick. There seems to be no end to this trend.

Look this year we could be looking at Hammel and shark traded. Boni sold high and the team really no better. Cheaper sure. Even if Hendricks promotes. Is he better than shark? I would guess no but he is sure cheaper.

I'm not a fan of the way they do busness.

My point remains the same, none of those players make much of a difference in winning a championship or not .
Do they win a few more games ? Maybe

Their agenda was to lower payroll and add quality depth to the system.
Was it at the cost of losing on major league level to use draft and take advantage of new money slot system ? Most likely yes

Does the trend end ? Eventually. it has lessened this year as only Hammels was signed the past off season to br a possible flip.

Nobody saying as a fan we have to like the route they chose, I dont.
But ive accepted it for the short term to see how it ends up for the long run.. for me this season number 3 is pivotal for them in adding more to the core by season end.. we shall see





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[JosMin]

I still can't believe we're fucking talking about Ramirez. What does this have to do with current Cubs prospects? Here guys, let me derail this stupid fucking fantasy that he wanted to return to Chicago after he became a free agent.

Ramirez, who played the past eight-plus seasons for the NL Central rival Chicago Cubs, said he considers the Brewers a team that will be in position to contend every year for the foreseeable future -- even if they do lose Braun for a chunk of next season and lose Fielder for good.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7...-ramirez-chicago-cubs-signs-milwaukee-brewers

In short -- Theo made it clear the Cubs were starting over in his introductory presser, meaning a guy like Ramirez who was in the later stage of his career, probably wanted to look elsewhere if a paycheck wasn't as important as being on a team that could contend.

Kinzer said Ramirez expects the Brewers to be a contender next season, a critical factor in his decision.

"That was one of his criteria," Kinzer said. "There were about four teams that he liked that were contenders, and Milwaukee was at the top of his list."

Ramirez had wanted a multiyear deal, and he didn't want to be part of a rebuilding project with the Cubs.

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/stor...ubs-3b-aramis-ramirez-heads-milwaukee-brewers

Once again -- he wanted to contend. He didn't want to be a part of a rebuilding team. It didn't matter how much money the Cubs offered, nor how long the contract was -- he had no interest returning there after the FO made their intentions clear.

So please, for the love of all that is holy, can we fucking get back on topic? Please?

 

[theberserkfury]

So please, for the love of all that is holy, can we fucking get back on topic? Please?

No way... the only thing that's worth talking about is how stupid and awful Theo Epstein/Jed Hoyer/the Ricketts are... especially on a thread that should be devoted to updates on Cubs prospects.

 

[nwfisch]

No way... the only thing that's worth talking about is how stupid and awful Theo Epstein/Jed Hoyer/the Ricketts are... especially on a thread that should be devoted to updates on Cubs prospects.

Lets talk about how great they are.....................*crickets*..............................................................

 

[patg006]

I think its time to move on from the crocodile tears from these minor moves made then and as a fan focus more on what going on now and their near future

Pure fanboy, slurping ignorance at it's finest.

I think it is time to move on from the fanboy, slurping, apologizing for or just plain sticking your head in the sand ignoring the poor moves and the dramatic reduction in talent at the major league level.

You say you want to focus on what is going on now??

You mean the start of the third season of what will be the worst three season stretch in the history of a franchise that is legendary for it's losing?

You do understand that a big reason of why the team is so bad right now is the lack of quality additions the last three off-seasons don't you?

So if you want to discuss the now, most of it is based on the past.

It is more wasteful to talk about the future than the past because the future is nothing but guess work and generally unrealistic expectations.

Exactly how is that more helpful?

Other than you can act like a teenage girl talking about your favorite member of One Direction or which guy in Twilight is hotter?

 

[patg006]

So please, for the love of all that is holy, can we fucking get back on topic? Please?

Castro, Rizzo and Olt yesterday were a combined 0-10 with 5 k's and 9 LOB.

Is that enough fucking on topic for you?

 

[theberserkfury]

Lets talk about how great they are.....................*crickets*..............................................................

The prospects? Well, everyone else seems to be doing it... weird that a forum for Cubs fans has so much trouble...

 

[patg006]

Lets talk about how great they are.....................*crickets*..............................................................

Let's talk about all the ways the team is improved now compared to 3 years ago.....


More crickets.

 

[patg006]

The prospects? Well, everyone else seems to be doing it... weird that a forum for Cubs fans has so much trouble...

Almost every other team the talk about prospects is secondary and takes a back seat to discussing the major league team.

Only with the ignorant Cub fans do prospects hold more value than the major league team.

 

[JosMin]

Almost every other team the talk about prospects is secondary and takes a back seat to discussing the major league team.

Only with the ignorant Cub fans do prospects hold more value than the major league team.

There's plenty to talk about yesterday's game:

**Samardzija looked pretty good and had nice command of both sides of the plate. He kept his pitch count down and got through seven innings against a scrappy lineup.

**Bonifacio showed everyone why he was essentially guaranteed a 25-man spot when the Cubs picked him up -- ability to put the ball in play, cause havoc on the base paths and work pitch counts. He's not going to get four hits everyday, but he's also not going to get caught sleeping at first and make that boneheaded play when he got caught in the run-down either. I like what he'll bring to the top part of the lineup, and his versatility in the field.

**The bullpen looked nice -- Strop showed the same ability as last year. Grimm put together a nice sequence against McCutchen and he made sure the one bad pitch he threw didn't cost him. Russell even got two solid outs. Shit, Villaneuva worked a 7-pitch AB until he made one mistake. Shit happens.

**Yesterday's game showed just how far ahead pitchers are as opposed to batters right now. Rizzo didn't show some of the pitch recognition that was evident in spring training and honestly, I don't think going up against a lefty was going to help any. His struggles last year against them were well documented. His performance yesterday disappointed me. But once again --it was Opening Day.

**I like two of Olt's ABs -- he saw 15 pitches total and looked to be aggressive. The Cubs don't need him to hit .300. They need him to put the ball in play and put together good at-bats so the guys around him have an opportunity to see better pitches.

You could, you know, always go to the IST we have going and talk about it. But just like Rizzo's struggles against southpaws is well documented, so is your inability to have a balanced conversation with everyone else when the opportunity presents itself. Can't say that I'm surprised.

 

[Boobaby1]

There's plenty to talk about yesterday's game:

**Samardzija looked pretty good and had nice command of both sides of the plate. He kept his pitch count down and got through seven innings against a scrappy lineup.

**Bonifacio showed everyone why he was essentially guaranteed a 25-man spot when the Cubs picked him up -- ability to put the ball in play, cause havoc on the base paths and work pitch counts. He's not going to get four hits everyday, but he's also not going to get caught sleeping at first and make that boneheaded play when he got caught in the run-down either. I like what he'll bring to the top part of the lineup, and his versatility in the field.

**The bullpen looked nice -- Strop showed the same ability as last year. Grimm put together a nice sequence against McCutchen and he made sure the one bad pitch he threw didn't cost him. Russell even got two solid outs. Shit, Villaneuva worked a 7-pitch AB until he made one mistake. Shit happens.

**Yesterday's game showed just how far ahead pitchers are as opposed to batters right now. Rizzo didn't show some of the pitch recognition that was evident in spring training and honestly, I don't think going up against a lefty was going to help any. His struggles last year against them were well documented. His performance yesterday disappointed me. But once again --it was Opening Day.

**I like two of Olt's ABs -- he saw 15 pitches total and looked to be aggressive. The Cubs don't need him to hit .300. They need him to put the ball in play and put together good at-bats so the guys around him have an opportunity to see better pitches.

You could, you know, always go to the IST we have going and talk about it. But just like Rizzo's struggles against southpaws is well documented, so is your inability to have a balanced conversation with everyone else when the opportunity presents itself. Can't say that I'm surprised.

Could we get back on topic.........Please?

 

[patg006]

There's plenty to talk about yesterday's game:

**Samardzija looked pretty good and had nice command of both sides of the plate. He kept his pitch count down and got through seven innings against a scrappy lineup.

Enjoy him the 3.5 months then until he gets traded and everyone goes nuts over the pennies on the dollar return the Cubs get in prospects.

**Bonifacio showed everyone why he was essentially guaranteed a 25-man spot when the Cubs picked him up -- ability to put the ball in play, cause havoc on the base paths and work pitch counts. He's not going to get four hits everyday, but he's also not going to get caught sleeping at first and make that boneheaded play when he got caught in the run-down either. I like what he'll bring to the top part of the lineup, and his versatility in the field.

See above.

**I like two of Olt's ABs -- he saw 15 pitches total and looked to be aggressive. The Cubs don't need him to hit .300. They need him to put the ball in play and put together good at-bats so the guys around him have an opportunity to see better pitches.

Put the ball in ball and put together good at bats??

Gotcha.

So all the Cubs need for him to do is something he has never been able to do as shown by his 26% strikeout rate on his plate appearances which goes up to about 30% when you included just AB's and that was against far inferior pitching then he will face in the majors.

The dude is a sub .260 hitter in the minors.

 

[theberserkfury]

Almost every other team the talk about prospects is secondary and takes a back seat to discussing the major league team.

Only with the ignorant Cub fans do prospects hold more value than the major league team.

This is a prospects' thread. What else should we be talking about here?

Lol... is this really that difficult to grasp?