Cubs Sign Ben Zobrist

SilenceS

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Try not being so literal for a change. I was generalizing about the overall attitude of the moves so far. How about we actually let the man complete his job for this off season? I'm mean up until this off season, he's done a pretty good job, right? And for someone who always tells me to 'be patient' and not 'over react', shouldn't you try using your own advice a little bit?

Who is over reacting? What is wrong with this board? You can not like moves the FO makes. Its called being objective with your own personal opinion. Its ok to not agree with everything. I am not over reacting. I do not like the moves. Period.
 

Bear Pride

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Not as an individual. More hitters like Zobrist in the lineup beat the Mets. He actually hit 95+ mph pitching yet you are negatively commenting about his age and anything but all the positives he brings to the team. The Cubs need less swing and miss in their lineup to win a WS. They just got one of those guys.

:dealwithit:

The Cubs were simply not ready for the Mets velocity last year. Zobrist's affect on the young Cubs hitters alone is a great addition let alone the fact that Ben can leadoff, play as well as Castro in the field, and bring better OBP, average, and flexibility than Castro.....
 

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The Cubs were simply not ready for the Mets velocity last year. Zobrist's affect on the young Cubs hitters alone is a great addition let alone the fact that Ben can leadoff, play as well as Castro in the field, and bring better OBP, average, and flexibility than Castro.....
I think he brings more flexibility and a more consistent OBP than Csstro, but I also want to be clear that his range will not be as good as Castro's IMHO. Starlin could make amazing defensive plays. It was the simple stuff he screwed up that left people scratching their heads.
 

Bear Pride

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Who is over reacting? What is wrong with this board? You can not like moves the FO makes. Its called being objective with your own personal opinion. Its ok to not agree with everything. I am not over reacting. I do not like the moves. Period.

Maybe try to not be so defensive as well. My post wasn't necessarily directed at you.
 

Bear Pride

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I think he brings more flexibility and a more consistent OBP than Csstro, but I also want to be clear that his range will not be as good as Castro's IMHO. Starlin could make amazing defensive plays. It was the simple stuff he screwed up that left people scratching their heads.

Yeah, I agree. It was mostly booting the easy plays that frustrated me, but he did a great job with them too in the 2nd half. Personally, defensively, I still like the combo of Russell and Baez in the middle the best defensively. I can see Ben play LF in those situations.
 

Bear Pride

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I'd like to add that it appears that the Mets and Giants both offered more money than the Cubs. Ben is motivated to come into Chicago and win a WS with the Cubs and play under Maddon again. This is a good thing, imo. I think people will look back on this differently after seeing how he fits in.
 

JZsportsfan

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I'd like to add that it appears that the Mets and Giants both offered more money than the Cubs. Ben is motivated to come into Chicago and win a WS with the Cubs and play under Maddon again. This is a good thing, imo. I think people will look back on this differently after seeing how he fits in.

Yeah, reports are the Nationals offered the most money, with the Mets coming in 2nd. Not sure where the Giants fell, but they were definitely up there. Notice all the teams offering this deal are ready to contend for a championship in 2016
 

Bear Pride

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Yeah, reports are the Nationals offered the most money, with the Mets coming in 2nd. Not sure where the Giants fell, but they were definitely up there. Notice all the teams offering this deal are ready to contend for a championship in 2016

I noticed. I also noticed he picked the Cubs. :crazydance:
 

Bear Pride

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Here's an interesting article on Zobrist for the metric heads..........

--------------------------

Cubs Add Ben Zobrist. Was It A Good Idea?

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Yesterday was a big day for the Cubs. Rather, yesterday was a huge day for the Cubs. I don't need to recap the deals for you all, but I will anyway: within about an hour of each other, the Cubs signed Ben Zobrist to a four-year, $56 million deal and then traded Starlin Castro to the Yankees for Adam Warren and Brendan Ryan.

It's difficult to separate these moves given the position's of Zobrist and Castro and given that proximity of the moves to each other.

However, Castro was an asset independent of Zobrist and Zobrist's acquisition was its own move. In this piece, I'm just going to look at Zobrist.
So what exactly did the Cubs buy? And was it a good idea or not?

To put it mildly, Ben Zobrist has had an unconventional career path. He was selected in the sixth round (184th overall) by the Astros in the 2004 draft out of Dallas Baptist, and he zoomed through the Houston system on the strength of elite on-base skills: Zobrist had a .429 career minor league on-base percentage. The switch-hitter was dealt to Tampa Bay in a 2006 trade deadline deal that sent Aubrey Huff to the Astros.

Zobrist's Major League career got off to a rocky start as he posted -1.9 fWAR through his age-26 season in 2007. But the something clicked for Zobrist in 2008 as he posted 1.5 fWAR over a 62-game sample before producing one of baseball's great breakout seasons. In 2009, at age 28 and with a career fWAR of -0.4 to date, Zobrist erupted to top all of Major League Baseball with 8.6 fWAR as he provided elite value both with his glove and bat. Zobrist returned to earth with a strong 3.8 fWAR in 2010 before ripping off four straight years with at least 5 fWAR from 2011-14.

Zobrist was dealt to Oakland last winter, and he struggled mightily through his first two months with the Athletics, dragged down by a torn meniscus which eventually required late April surgery. Zobrist scuffled for about a week upon his return, but then he returned to form in June and didn't look back as the career .265/.355/.431 hitter posted a sizzling .282/.369/.461 line over the season's final four months primarily spent with the Royals. Zobrist was even better in October as his .303/.365/.515 tally paced the Royals in their pursuit of a championship.

Zobrist has long been known for his defense as he has consistently produced excellent value both at second base and in the corner outfield spots. 2015 proved to be a truly alarming aberration as his range seemingly evaporated. It remains to be seen to what extent this may have been driven by his knee injury.

Even with the defensive struggles in 2015 -- at least according to the metrics -- the player described above would normally command something in the neighborhood of $20 million per year on a deal cover six or more seasons. However, Ben Zobrist comes with one major drawback: he turns 35 in May.

Read more ......
 

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im a bit surprised to see so many on here dislike the move. they upgraded 2B Zobrist > Castro and in return for Castro they picked up a pitcher they have control of for the next 3 seasons that produced a 2.7 WAR last season in the AL East :shrug:
 

hyatt151

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And traded away another contact hitter. Isn't that counter productive?


YEAR TEAM GP AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS WAR
2010

CHC

125 463 53 139 31 5 3 41 29 71 10 8 .300 .347 .408 .755 1.4
2011

CHC

158 674 91 207 36 9 10 66 35 96 22 9 .307 .341 .432 .773 3.0
2012

CHC

162 646 78 183 29 12 14 78 36 100 25 13 .283 .323 .430 .753 3.4
2013

CHC

161 666 59 163 34 2 10 44 30 129 9 6 .245 .284 .347 .631 -0.6
2014

CHC

134 528 58 154 33 1 14 65 35 100 4 4 .292 .339 .438 .777 2.0
2015

CHC

151 547 52 145 23 2 11 69 21 91 5 5 .265 .296 .375 .671 0.7
Total Total 891 3524 391 991 186 31 62 363 186 587 75 45 .281 .321 .404 .725 --
Season Averages 148.0 587.3 65.2 165.2 31.0 5.2 10.3 60.5 31.0 97.8 12.5 7.5 .281 .321 .404 .725 --


His walk rates do not replace his contact numbers, he has little power, and has not improved there much, despite a large sample size. Add that to the fact he can't steal bases and is a below average base runner. In my book everything about the Zobrist replacement is PRODUCTIVE!
 

SilenceS

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YEAR TEAM GP AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS WAR
2010

CHC

125 463 53 139 31 5 3 41 29 71 10 8 .300 .347 .408 .755 1.4
2011

CHC

158 674 91 207 36 9 10 66 35 96 22 9 .307 .341 .432 .773 3.0
2012

CHC

162 646 78 183 29 12 14 78 36 100 25 13 .283 .323 .430 .753 3.4
2013

CHC

161 666 59 163 34 2 10 44 30 129 9 6 .245 .284 .347 .631 -0.6
2014

CHC

134 528 58 154 33 1 14 65 35 100 4 4 .292 .339 .438 .777 2.0
2015

CHC

151 547 52 145 23 2 11 69 21 91 5 5 .265 .296 .375 .671 0.7
Total Total 891 3524 391 991 186 31 62 363 186 587 75 45 .281 .321 .404 .725 --
Season Averages 148.0 587.3 65.2 165.2 31.0 5.2 10.3 60.5 31.0 97.8 12.5 7.5 .281 .321 .404 .725 --


His walk rates do not replace his contact numbers, he has little power, and has not improved there much, despite a large sample size. Add that to the fact he can't steal bases and is a below average base runner. In my book everything about the Zobrist replacement is PRODUCTIVE!

Zobrist cant steal bases and had a negative base running last season. I don't doubt that Zobrist can be an upgrade from Castro. I just don't see him being an upgrade for 4 seasons at that price. I watched him a good amount last year and he turned it on. But, in the beginning, he had an injury and he looked old and slow. He was able to bounce back. Good for him. My concern is when it happens again, and it will, can he bounce back? With Peds not being as rampant, players aren't performing late into their careers like did for a stretch. Now, the Cubs are relying on two very old players to get them over the hump. Man, that is some risk. Especially, if the Cubs truly have a ceiling on spending. It could handicap them from going out and getting what they need. I will come around when the season starts but I just don't care for the move. I didn't mind the Lackey move but this move I have my reservations. Zobrist healthy is a productive player. I don't dispute that. I think people over sell him but he is productive. I just don't see the over the top aspect for the money and what you had in house.
 

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Zobrist cant steal bases and had a negative base running last season. I don't doubt that Zobrist can be an upgrade from Castro. I just don't see him being an upgrade for 4 seasons at that price. I watched him a good amount last year and he turned it on. But, in the beginning, he had an injury and he looked old and slow. He was able to bounce back. Good for him. My concern is when it happens again, and it will, can he bounce back? With Peds not being as rampant, players aren't performing late into their careers like did for a stretch. Now, the Cubs are relying on two very old players to get them over the hump. Man, that is some risk. Especially, if the Cubs truly have a ceiling on spending. It could handicap them from going out and getting what they need. I will come around when the season starts but I just don't care for the move. I didn't mind the Lackey move but this move I have my reservations. Zobrist healthy is a productive player. I don't dispute that. I think people over sell him but he is productive. I just don't see the over the top aspect for the money and what you had in house.
Agreed from a money standpoint. This was done for position flexibility imho. Also knowledge of how to approach big fastball pitchers, etc.
 

TC in Mississippi

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Agreed from a money standpoint. This was done for position flexibility imho. Also knowledge of how to approach big fastball pitchers, etc.

Every single indication is that TV deal will be signed sometime in 2017 at which point long term budgeting will become clear. If Zobrist is a very expensive utility player beyond 2017 it could very well be OK. I think this was to set up the first competition window of the run for 2016-2017. I think the team will look very different after that. As far as right now goes Zobrist checked a lot of boxes. I firmly believe this is a better team right now than 2 weeks ago.
 

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They still need to address CF. if they are still looking at Heyward seriously they will need to move Hammel's contract. I believe Heyward's floor will be 150 mil.
 

TC in Mississippi

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Yeah, that's probably likely although the way they've structured the contracts so far has been very creative by having bonuses applied to the 2015 salary budget. I don't know if there's anything left there or not but it's clear they know how to structure to get what they want.
 

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