Cubs Spring Training Discussion Thread

[SilenceS]

If Olt hits, I would trade him in a heartbeat if he was packaged for something good.

 

[CSF77]

If Olt hits, I would trade him in a heartbeat if he was packaged for something good.

I wouldn't until better solutions present themselves. Baez/Rizzo/Olt in the line up could cause some damage. I would wait and see with Bryant and Soler. If both get into top 25 prospect level and are ready then I would shop Olt. It is better to have a sure thing and by that point we will know what Olt is.

Regardless if he hits 30 HR's this year I am not trading him and I am using Soler for pitching and moving Bryant to RF.

 

[CSF77]

That is using Soler in trades for pitching.

If the team can pick it up in run production in the first half and Olt proves to be starter quality. What I mean with him is a .250/.330/.450 line and over 12 HR's by the ASG and him taking over 3B from Valbuena. Then I am thinking on adding Baez and cutting either Barney or Valbuena.

Then I am thinking of extending shark and putting together a deal for Price. I'm thinking that it would take Soler/Either Alcantara or Almora Vogelbach and a arm.

That puts the rotation at Price/Shark/Wood/Jackson/Arreta which is not that bad to be honest and worth moving some depth.

 

[SilenceS]

That is using Soler in trades for pitching.

If the team can pick it up in run production in the first half and Olt proves to be starter quality. What I mean with him is a .250/.330/.450 line and over 12 HR's by the ASG and him taking over 3B from Valbuena. Then I am thinking on adding Baez and cutting either Barney or Valbuena.

Then I am thinking of extending shark and putting together a deal for Price. I'm thinking that it would take Soler/Either Alcantara or Almora Vogelbach and a arm.

That puts the rotation at Price/Shark/Wood/Jackson/Arreta which is not that bad to be honest and worth moving some depth.

Olt wont hit for a high average. Bryant is a top 25 prospect already. He is in top 10 in some list. Soler they predict will be back in the top 25 if he has a good first half. I would sell high on Olt id he hits because we have a lot of depth now at third and I just dont trust his skill set at the plate. Yea, he has power but its not other wordly power like Baez and Bryant.

 

[CSF77]

Olt wont hit for a high average. Bryant is a top 25 prospect already. He is in top 10 in some list. Soler they predict will be back in the top 25 if he has a good first half. I would sell high on Olt id he hits because we have a lot of depth now at third and I just dont trust his skill set at the plate. Yea, he has power but its not other wordly power like Baez and Bryant.

Ok let me sum it up:

Almora CF, Castro SS, Baez 2B, Bryant RF, Rizzo 1B, Olt 3B, Lake LF, Castillo C.

Alcantara, Vogelbach, Soler, and 1 arm for Price

They have no need for Olt with Longora. If they want Almora fine move Alcantara to CF and move on with life.

 

[patg006]

Ok let me sum it up:

Alcantara, Vogelbach, Soler, and 1 arm for Price

I am so glad we live in a world of realism.

 

[CSF77]

It is not about who is best. It is who do you have that other teams want also. They are not going to be able to field every one and Price is out there for the taking.

 

[CSF77]

I am so glad we live in a world of realism.

How much control is on Price?

Can they pay to keep him?

this is not the 2 years of control that Garza or Shields had.

garza got 2 top 100 prospects with 2 years. Shields 2 years cost a top 5 and some.

Almora and Soler are top 50. Add Vogelbach who is a top 5 1B with plus power in a DH league and a quality arm is would be a solid offer.

Not many teams could match it with out draining their system.

Theo has done 1 thing right IMO. Build a deeper farm where they can pull a deal like this.

Add to it they were willing to go over 100 mil on a unknown SP. They should be able to retain Price.

 

[dabynsky]

How much control is on Price?

Can they pay to keep him?

this is not the 2 years of control that Garza or Shields had.

garza got 2 top 100 prospects with 2 years. Shields 2 years cost a top 5 and some.

Almora and Soler are top 50. Add Vogelbach who is a top 5 1B with plus power in a DH league and a quality arm is would be a solid offer.

Not many teams could match it with out draining their system.

Theo has done 1 thing right IMO. Build a deeper farm where they can pull a deal like this.

Add to it they were willing to go over 100 mil on a unknown SP. They should be able to retain Price.

Price has two years at this point. Granted the Rays aren't likely to deal him until midseason at the earliest. That said Shields netted Will Myers. And Price is far better than Shields or Garza. So it is hard to imagine the Cubs being able to snag Price without giving up Baez or Bryant as the headliner. Quality is always better than quantity for the selling team.

 

[CSF77]

Price has two years at this point. Granted the Rays aren't likely to deal him until midseason at the earliest. That said Shields netted Will Myers. And Price is far better than Shields or Garza. So it is hard to imagine the Cubs being able to snag Price without giving up Baez or Bryant as the headliner. Quality is always better than quantity for the selling team.

It is not about a Will Myers type to nab him. It is about what other offers are on the table. Baez an Bryant are top 10. So another team would have to put up a top 10 to justify it.

The deal here is Shields should also be on the 1 end of the year rental/F/A. I doubt KC extends him. That affects Price in for a penant run add with out having to add to next year. Shields makes more sense. Shields on the market means the big spends can hold onto their chips.

Looking at farms with the quality the Cubs have:

Bo-Sox. Maybe. They already have solid pitching but wouldn't count them out.

stroes: too far away in impact talent. Core of team is bad.

Minn: not giving Bux or Sano. That team depends on self grown like TB.

Cubs make a good bed partner.

Not helping the enemy (Bo-Sox). Check

Has quality prospects. Check

All that matters and I don't see to many teams that are willing to give up a top 10.

Royals had and were on the brink. If they do not go to the play offs before Shields goes and they lose Myers for nothing then who looks stupid.

Basically gave up Rook of the year for nothing.

 

[patg006]

Royals had and were on the brink. If they do not go to the play offs before Shields goes and they lose Myers for nothing then who looks stupid.

Basically gave up Rook of the year for nothing.

So 228.2 IP of 3.15 ERA and the most wins for the franchise in almost 25 years is nothing? LOL!!!!

I guess we are also ignoring that at worst they will get a first round draft pick when he signs with another team or if they are out of it come July can trade him for prospects.

 

[CSF77]

If they never go to the play offs with Shields and he leaves via F/A yes it means nothing.

0 play off games for Will Myers. Pretty basic stuff.

They made the trade to push them to the play offs in a 2 year window.

How is that hard to understand.

Makes the same logic as you do when talking about lottery tickets.

 

[CSF77]

So 228.2 IP of 3.15 ERA and the most wins for the franchise in almost 25 years is nothing? LOL!!!!

I guess we are also ignoring that at worst they will get a first round draft pick when he signs with another team or if they are out of it come July can trade him for prospects.

#30 pick is not the same as a top 5 prospect.

Also not making a play off game.... Pretty steep price to pay.

Garza deal: Cubs we coming off of 2007/2008. 2009 was A-Ram injured. 2010 was a last shot at it. Came up short and continued to. But talent given up? 1 back end off the top 100 and a 2nd that became top 100 after he left and a bunch of trash. Nothing even top 50 at the time of the trade.

But when you give up...ok let me put it this way if this was the Angles we were taking about and they traded for 2 years of a comparable ace. And sold Trout...ya Mr MVP now and in that 2 year window they went to 0 games and Trout is pushing best player in baseball......If I'm the owner I'm firing that GM just to save face.

 

[patg006]

If they never go to the play offs with Shields and he leaves via F/A yes it means nothing.

Last season being the best season the team has had in close to 25 years means a lot more than nothing.

Going into this season with the highest expectations and highest payroll in team history means a lot more than nothing.

The only reason it means nothing is if you are ignorant enough to believe that everything other than winning in the playoffs is a total failure.

 

[beckdawg]

I'm no where near as convinced as some that Baez is destined for 2B/3B in the short term but whatever we've been over that. As for Olt, if he plays well I see no reason to move him until someone better replaces him. If Bryant is the real deal they can play him in the OF without much issue. I suppose if someone is willing to offer you some sort of ridiculously good deal then sure. But you could easily extract 2-3 years out of him before his FA comes and then consider moving him a year or two before he's eligible if you have as good or better options who are younger.

 

[CSF77]

Last season being the best season the team has had in close to 25 years means a lot more than nothing.

Going into this season with the highest expectations and highest payroll in team history means a lot more than nothing.

The only reason it means nothing is if you are ignorant enough to believe that everything other than winning in the playoffs is a total failure.

I never said winning in the play offs. I said making it to the play offs.

Which means:

They made that trade fulling knowing that it was a 2 year rental.

They made that trade to make it to the play offs in that two year window.

If they achieve that goal then good for them. They made their agenda. (I like that team's chances)

If they do not then that trade was a loss. They fell short of the the expectations dictated by that trade. (Other words they should have spent more to improve their chances)


If Myers ends up as good as his potential dictates then it blows it up even more. If he busts out then that trade becomes a non loss but not a win.

From a fans perspective:

Year 3 after the trade. My team fails to make it to the play offs. They get a lottery ticket...I call them cheap for not spending to retain Shields. Then I see Myers clubbing in TB keeping them in the play offs year in and out with a like small market. I start hating the stupidity of that trade even more.

If they go to the play offs but end up losing. Then lose Shields and Myers blows up. Ya I'm bitter. But I can't complain.

 

[SilenceS]

I'm no where near as convinced as some that Baez is destined for 2B/3B in the short term but whatever we've been over that. As for Olt, if he plays well I see no reason to move him until someone better replaces him. If Bryant is the real deal they can play him in the OF without much issue. I suppose if someone is willing to offer you some sort of ridiculously good deal then sure. But you could easily extract 2-3 years out of him before his FA comes and then consider moving him a year or two before he's eligible if you have as good or better options who are younger.

Olt has proven himself either. My point is I rather the Cubs try to sell high or letting him keep playing and being exposed. Olt is more likely a .230 close to 200 K hitter then a .270 150 K hitter. He will walk and hit homeruns, but he also will swing and miss a ton. People worry about Baez. Olt is way worse. Olt has never struck out less then 28% in the minors. He struck out over 30% percent of the time this spring. Add into that he is already 25 and will turn 26 during the season. To me, that scream if he does well sell high.

 

[SilenceS]

I dont want Price. The cost of prospects plus the cost of his contract make me shy away. He lost velocity last year and has a good bit of mileage on his arm. IF his velocity come back up this year then I would reconsider. But, I have seen to many times when a lost of velocity leads to big decline.

 

[CSF77]

I'm no where near as convinced as some that Baez is destined for 2B/3B in the short term but whatever we've been over that. As for Olt, if he plays well I see no reason to move him until someone better replaces him. If Bryant is the real deal they can play him in the OF without much issue. I suppose if someone is willing to offer you some sort of ridiculously good deal then sure. But you could easily extract 2-3 years out of him before his FA comes and then consider moving him a year or two before he's eligible if you have as good or better options who are younger.

On Baez it depends on his D. If he proves better than Castro at SS then it opens up Castro for trade. If he is worse at D than Castro than 2B makes sense. Now the Cubs see him as a IF regardless. Even though he played CF in HS I doubt they are going to push him there. Regardless he started in HS as a 2B. SS graduated he takes over. Hated SS moved to CF liked it. Moved back to SS and stuck. That was his history.

The ball is in Olt's court now. If he proves to be better than Valbuena there then he should get the playing time. Not based off of L/R match ups.

Bryant will be in AA with Soler so we are at least a year out from having that discussion.

 

[CSF77]

I dont want Price. The cost of prospects plus the cost of his contract make me shy away. He lost velocity last year and has a good bit of mileage on his arm. IF his velocity come back up this year then I would reconsider. But, I have seen to many times when a lost of velocity leads to big decline.

I can see that reasoning. But they are going to have to get an ace from somewhere. Who knows maybe (LOL) they decide to give up a pick for Shields. (ya right)