Cubs Spring training thread

[CSF77]

Yes. The personal attacks he makes on posters shouldn't be tolerated.

I agree. Opinions are fine. Taking it personal is where I draw the line. No need for it. We are all fans of the same team.

 

[CSF77]

Rickett still has to agree to amount..no?

I'm wondering if Arrieta might finally be open to take a fair offer from Cubs because he coming to terms that at 32 he just might not get that 6-7 yr deal at 25-30 per he wants elsewhere...

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Whether the Cubs extend right-hander Jake Arrieta prior to free agency next winter will be up to president of baseball operations Theo Epstein and general manager Jed Hoyer, chairman Tom Ricketts told Mark Gonzales of the Chicago Tribune. “They have the right perspective on what they have to put a great team on the field this year but have a longer term perspective in realizing decisions that affect this year might hurt us in a few years,” said Ricketts, who added that the reigning World Series champions will be “thoughtful and strategic” in deciding when to exceed the luxury-tax threshold. The Cubs spent past the mark for the first time last year, but they’re on track to avoid the penalty this season, estimates Jason Martinez of Roster Resource and MLBTR. Allowing Arrieta to walk in free agency next year would help the Cubs stay under the limit in 2018, too, though they’d also lose the 2015 NL Cy Young winner and one of the game’s top starters. It seems that will happen, however, as Arrieta’s agent, Scott Boras, could push for a $200MM-plus deal. In the meantime, Arrieta will make $15.6375M in his final year of team control.

 

[FirstTimer]

Hayward's swing still looks like a mess. Really looks like he's "thinking" about it too much and doesn't look comfortable. Maybe he's trying to be really robotic right now to really set in the mmuscle memory of it but..ehh...

 

[CSF77]

So why didn't he get results sooner?

IDK. From your stat: OBA+ He high watered at 131 then in 2005 it jumped to 174. His first year with Chi it dipped to 118. New contract maybe.

2006 was his wrist injury. 2007 came back with a 130 which was where he was with FLA. following year 110. So another dive. Then after a bulging disc in the neck put up a 146.

What was happening in 2008-2009. Best record then following year A-Ram goes down. Huge expectations coming up short the Lee comes back to put up super human numbers (compared to what his norm is)

All I'm saying is it is suspect. There is no proof either way but with what was happening at the time it is suspect.

I would t blame him to be honest. Season going to the shitter and the team needed him back now. Can't blame the guy for doing it, if he did. Just showed he gave a dam

 

[beckdawg]

Did anyone see the latest Heyward swings from ST?

I posted a video of his swing from Shadev on the previous page. That's all the more I've seen about it though.

 

[SilenceS]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/o...m-wins-on-wild-pitch-during-intentional-walk/

Lol MLB changes the Intentional walk to automatic. Texas Tech wins on the same day with a wild pitch on a Intentional walk.

 

[RacerX]

Got ya. So you have no idea what you're talking about.

Thanks!

Dude, chill out, why do you feel a need to ****** it up with every other poster, it's just sports talk - hardly worth bickering over.

 

[Bronze65]

Dude, chill out, why do you feel a need to ****** it up with every other poster, it's just sports talk - hardly worth bickering over.

Just don't engage them. You're always wrong. And they're Gods about every sport and know everything. Or if you do engage, just post this in response every time:
:aj:

 

[beckdawg]

http://www.si.com/mlb/2017/02/21/chicago-cubs-chris-bosio-pitching-lab

 

[FirstTimer]

Since my post about Eloy got deleted(?) I'll ask again:

Is this a kid that we see in the bigs this year or is he a 2018 guy? Cup of coffee 40 man call up in '17 or any chance he flies through the minors this year. Hype train in full force on him.

 

[SilenceS]

Since my post about Eloy got deleted(?) I'll ask again:

Is this a kid that we see in the bigs this year or is he a 2018 guy? Cup of coffee 40 man call up in '17 or any chance he flies through the minors this year. Hype train in full force on him.

I would assume they will not rush him. Theo likes 500 AB's before promotions. The Cubs have a log jam in the OF. He also needs to become a better defender, but he has done well doing that. This kid is the mold of Jorge Soler. Keep him healthy and keep him progressing, but lets not rush him. Cubs have enough talent before him to fill any spots.

 

[beckdawg]

Since my post about Eloy got deleted(?) I'll ask again:

Is this a kid that we see in the bigs this year or is he a 2018 guy? Cup of coffee 40 man call up in '17 or any chance he flies through the minors this year. Hype train in full force on him.

I'd be surprised if he plays in even in 2018 more than just a sept call up. Basically the easiest way to think about prospects is a year a level. That gets a bit weird in A ball because A- is only a half year league and A+ often ends up being a half year stop for high profile talent who start the year in A. But to use Eloy as an example, he spent all year in A ball last year. I believe what I've read is the plan is to start him in A+. Given he already spent a year in A I don't expect he'll spend all year there as there's not a huge talent difference between A and A+. Likely around midseason he'll get promoted to AA and spend the rest of 2017 there. In 2018 I'd imagine he might start in AA and have a quick promotion to AAA with an eye toward a late season call up.

On the other hand, it is possible a prospect goes nuts like say Schwarber or Bryant did. If that happens you don't really hold him back. That is what was so crazy about Schwarber because he went through all of the minors is right around a year after he was drafted. In Eloy's case though I think it's going to be difficult for him to do this because from what I've read he's not really a RF defensively. And they already have Schwarber for LF. So, unless there is an injury rushing him isn't really needed.

And in all honesty, I wouldn't be surprised if he's a trade chip used at the deadline to acquire starting pitching. The only real way he makes sense long term is if Heyward isn't around and if he matures defensively in RF but I'm not sure that's going to be the case.

 

[CSF77]

I was reading on what Eloy was saying. He feels that he is ready. Joe is saying to him keep up what you are doing.

I think he needs to see some MLB level pitching to figure out where he is at. It seems his ego is getting a little big from what I'm reading and seeing some MLB level stuff in S/T should push it down some.

What he is doing against A ball pitching means little. All it means is he needs the next challenge. Not bypass the minors.

 

[chibears55]

Since my post about Eloy got deleted(?) I'll ask again:

Is this a kid that we see in the bigs this year or is he a 2018 guy? Cup of coffee 40 man call up in '17 or any chance he flies through the minors this year. Hype train in full force on him.

I cant wait for this kid to come up, that said barring injuries I believe his full-time ETA won't be til 2019.

Kid only 20, still needs a full year at AA and some AAA..
With Schwarber and Heyward set in corner OF, only chance for Jimenez to see regular ABs in 2018 would be if Cubs trade one of Schwarber or Heyward or Injury.
So
No reason to rush him through now, let him grow and develop in system..
ROY candidate 2019

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[Parade_Rain]

The best players, the very best players can move through the system quickly and skip past AAA. Believe me.

 

[DanTown]

You traded Torres because under no circumstance was he going to be a SS so he's a 2B and that limits his value to you so getting Chapman made sense. Trading Eloy is a huge risk because in three + years, you're going to have a very expensive team so Eloy being a rookie in 2019 makes a ton of sense for the payroll/long term impact of the team, especially if Heyward is gone.

 

[beckdawg]

The best players, the very best players can move through the system quickly and skip past AAA. Believe me.

Not entirely accurate. Bryant took 330 PAs in AAA. Obviously he probably didn't really *need* those but the point is more that it's more a case by case thing. If we're talking Eloy there's a number of factors here. First of all he literally just turned 20. If he were to play in the majors this year that would be INCREDIBLY young. Russell for example was a real shock to get promoted at the time and he was still 21. And obviously the second thing is where do you even play him?

None of that is to say Eloy isn't talented but people far too often just assume talented prospects will breeze through levels of competition. The average age of A+ last year was 22.5. So he's on average going to be playing against players 3 years older than him. The average age at AA is 24.0. At AAA you're talking 26.4. It's entirely plausible that those players who are more physically mature will be able to exploit him which would obviously slow down his development. This is why you typically see college bats who are the ones who move quickly through the minors rather than HS bats. Bryant debuted in the minors at 21 as did Schwarber. Even if you want to compare Eloy to Rizzo(drafted out of HS) as a hitter, Rizzo didn't debut until he was 21 and when he did he hit(.141/.281/.242).

Long story short, you have to a pretty special player to debut in the majors before age 21. And the thing is, there is relatively little downside to keeping him in the minors. It's one thing if he's posting .400+ OBP like Schwarber and Bryant did. Then I can see the argument of pushing him. But outside of that you're really not losing out by having him spend more time facing minors pitching.

 

[beckdawg]

You traded Torres because under no circumstance was he going to be a SS so he's a 2B and that limits his value to you so getting Chapman made sense. Trading Eloy is a huge risk because in three + years, you're going to have a very expensive team so Eloy being a rookie in 2019 makes a ton of sense for the payroll/long term impact of the team, especially if Heyward is gone.

Every scouting report I've read on Torres seems to indicate he'll stick at SS. He's not going to be Lindor there but most seem to think he's average defensively though given they Yankees have Didi Gregorius who's a superb defender I could see them moving him off SS. That being said, if I'm not mistaken the yankees moved Mateo over to 2B rather than Torres after the trade. Presumably if Torres were that poor at SS he would have moved.

As for Eloy, I don't really agree with that assessment. First of all, all the scouting I've read on him is that he probably should be playing LF. And more to that point, the cubs themselves played Eloy 741.0 of his 833.0 innings last year in LF. As for Heyward, I'm not sure he leaves even if he does rebound but if we humor the argument, Eddy Martinez is a legit prospect and a far better defender in RF. Hell he can probably play some CF and given they dealt Dewees this offseason he might actually play there this coming season.

I get why people like Jiminez. And I get why you wouldn't want to trade him. But we have seen this offseason what pitching costs. If the cubs are actually hunting for pitching at the trade deadline, every team is going to be asking for Happ and Jiminez as the head line pieces. That's just the way it is.

 

[DanTown]

Every scouting report I've read on Torres seems to indicate he'll stick at SS. He's not going to be Lindor there but most seem to think he's average defensively though given they Yankees have Didi Gregorius who's a superb defender I could see them moving him off SS. That being said, if I'm not mistaken the yankees moved Mateo over to 2B rather than Torres after the trade. Presumably if Torres were that poor at SS he would have moved.

As for Eloy, I don't really agree with that assessment. First of all, all the scouting I've read on him is that he probably should be playing LF. And more to that point, the cubs themselves played Eloy 741.0 of his 833.0 innings last year in LF. As for Heyward, I'm not sure he leaves even if he does rebound but if we humor the argument, Eddy Martinez is a legit prospect and a far better defender in RF. Hell he can probably play some CF and given they dealt Dewees this offseason he might actually play there this coming season.

I get why people like Jiminez. And I get why you wouldn't want to trade him. But we have seen this offseason what pitching costs. If the cubs are actually hunting for pitching at the trade deadline, every team is going to be asking for Happ and Jiminez as the head line pieces. That's just the way it is.

He wasn't going to be a SS on a team with Addison Russell or even Baez for that matter, that's why his trade value was always higher than his player value to the Cubs.

Regarding Eloy, the point is, he projects as a medium/high WAR player no matter where he plays. Maybe they trade him but I don't see them doing that until they know what Heyward does. If Heyward opts out, there isn't another 5 WAR player sitting around to be called up. I can see them trading Eloy (for the same reasons as Torres) but the main difference is that Eloy will be coming up when the Cubs will have a greater need for "cheaper" players as guys like Rizzo, etc mature in to new contracts.

It's worth asking if the Cubs would give Rizzo a major deal in 2021 or whatever and maybe move a guy like Eloy over there ala Pujols moving to first base in his early/mid 20s.

 

[brett05]

You traded Torres because under no circumstance was he going to be a SS so he's a 2B and that limits his value to you so getting Chapman made sense. Trading Eloy is a huge risk because in three + years, you're going to have a very expensive team so Eloy being a rookie in 2019 makes a ton of sense for the payroll/long term impact of the team, especially if Heyward is gone.

Better chance that the sun doesn't come up tomorrow. No way he opts out and unless the Cubs want to eat tens of millions no chance he is traded either. Best hope is he gets his bat back.