Cubs Spring training thread

[CSF77]

All players have trends. There is not a player in baseball that doesn't have a bad month. As long as his D is stable all year this teams has proven that it really doesn't need him to be the best hitter. If he has a rebound then this line up becomes a wrecking ball on major league staff's.

 

[Diehardfan]

Jesus...it is spring training, isn't it? Couldn't we at least hold off till things actually count?

 

[beckdawg]

Heyward is a professional being paid 180M. It's up to him to figure it out. Go to your boss and tell him you are going to suck April, May and June every year and see what happens.

You're acting like I'm trying to justify this as some sort of defense for him. All I'm saying is the dude has been noticeably worse in April so even if he struggles in ST/April that really shouldn't be a surprise. Certainly you'd like for him to perform all year round but that's where we are. Hopefully since he started working in January on his swing that he'll be more in May/June form by April.

 

[Omeletpants]

You're acting like I'm trying to justify this as some sort of defense for him. All I'm saying is the dude has been noticeably worse in April so even if he struggles in ST/April that really shouldn't be a surprise. Certainly you'd like for him to perform all year round but that's where we are. Hopefully since he started working in January on his swing that he'll be more in May/June form by April.

And I would love the guy to play well this year and for him to try to not suck

 

[anotheridiot]

And I would love the guy to play well this year and for him to try to not suck

I just want to know when Theo and Jed start taking some heat for this contract if he does suck, and Soler has 25 bombs by the all star game.

 

[Washington]

I just want to know when Theo and Jed start taking some heat for this contract if he does suck, and Soler has 25 bombs by the all star game.

I still believe in my heart that the signing was mostly made to put the screws to STL and I still feel confident STL is going to laugh last on the deal. I think they really dodged a bullet. I hope and pray I am wrong though and that Hayward can turn it around and get back to being at least a mediocre hitter.

 

[CSF77]

I just want to know when Theo and Jed start taking some heat for this contract if he does suck, and Soler has 25 bombs by the all star game.

The reason why they signed Heyward was because of Soler's D. Add to it he was a injury waiting to happen his whole career.

When you are running Bryant, Russell, Contreras and Baez you really are not needing another RH bat. If anything Heyward helps split them up.

 

[brett05]

Let's say Heyward bombs forever. I think Theo and crew take no heat for it. They won a WS. Pretty much get a free pass on any mistakes that were made in 2016. And rightfully so I add.

 

[anotheridiot]

The reason why they signed Heyward was because of Soler's D. Add to it he was a injury waiting to happen his whole career.

When you are running Bryant, Russell, Contreras and Baez you really are not needing another RH bat. If anything Heyward helps split them up.

I dont think that is completely true. Remember they claimed Heyward was replacing Fowler in center when he was signed.

 

[SilenceS]

I just want to know when Theo and Jed start taking some heat for this contract if he does suck, and Soler has 25 bombs by the all star game.

They just won the World Series. lol

 

[SilenceS]

I still believe in my heart that the signing was mostly made to put the screws to STL and I still feel confident STL is going to laugh last on the deal. I think they really dodged a bullet. I hope and pray I am wrong though and that Hayward can turn it around and get back to being at least a mediocre hitter.

Bad contracts are giving out all the time. No matter what happens with Heyward. It is not going to hamper the Cubs now or in the future.

 

[anotheridiot]

They just won the World Series. lol

So that should allow them one 200 million dollar mistake contract because the 200 million dollar outfielder gave a speech when mother nature gave them a time out?

 

[SilenceS]

So that should allow them one 200 million dollar mistake contract because the 200 million dollar outfielder gave a speech when mother nature gave them a time out?

Yes, they just ended a 108 years. I think the Cubs have shelled out far more than 200 million dollars over time and havent won jack shit. Now, they start signing a bunch of bad FA signings and the team starts to be mediocre then they should "take heat". Lol Relax man.

 

[CSF77]

Heyward will be locked up until 2018. At that point the Cubs can trade him to a short list or he can opt out. He should be 29 at that point and could sign another mega.

Looking at it he was 26. Established as a player with top 2 RF D.

He had a first year that was plus on the D side but subpar on the O.

But he will have 3 years to prove his long term worth. At that point if he bounces back his deal looks great and he may jump out while he is peaking. If he still is Meh the Cubs could eat some contract to force a trade. His D is still worth 10 mil per alone.

End of the day it was not a bad deal and he is still only 27.

 

[beckdawg]

People conveniently ignore the 4 years prior to 2016 when Heyward averaged over 5 fWAR per season. Seemingly people are already sure one bad season means he's a terrible player. Also, the last bad season Heyward had was 2011 and he proceeded to go on that 4 year tear. I'm not trying to gloss over 2016 but the guy is 27 and hurt his wrist early in 2016. Wouldn't be the 1st time a player had an injury and over compensated some other way throwing their mechanics out of wack. He doesn't even have to hit amazingly to be a hugely productive player. Fangraphs had him losing around 1.9 WAR because he was that bad at hitting last year. If he just hits neutral(0 offense stat) which is roughly what Denard Span did last year at .266/.331/.381 and 96 wRC+ he would have been worth around 3.5 wins. That's basically what Russell gave the cubs last season which is appropriate given thus far in his career that's basically been the player Russell has been(meh bat great defense). It's also basically what Baez has been and Baez isn't that much younger(~3 years).

 

[TC in Mississippi]

People conveniently ignore the 4 years prior to 2016 when Heyward averaged over 5 fWAR per season. Seemingly people are already sure one bad season means he's a terrible player. Also, the last bad season Heyward had was 2011 and he proceeded to go on that 4 year tear. I'm not trying to gloss over 2016 but the guy is 27 and hurt his wrist early in 2016. Wouldn't be the 1st time a player had an injury and over compensated some other way throwing their mechanics out of wack. He doesn't even have to hit amazingly to be a hugely productive player. Fangraphs had him losing around 1.9 WAR because he was that bad at hitting last year. If he just hits neutral(0 offense stat) which is roughly what Denard Span did last year at .266/.331/.381 and 96 wRC+ he would have been worth around 3.5 wins. That's basically what Russell gave the cubs last season which is appropriate given thus far in his career that's basically been the player Russell has been(meh bat great defense). It's also basically what Baez has been and Baez isn't that much younger(~3 years).

I think a lot of this is just the "what have you done for me lately" aspect of baseball. I've been more tuned into the national baseball media over the last year or so and this isn't just about Heyward or Chicago, it's a common theme. Last week I heard a discussion about Andrew McCutchen and how the host felt that the Pirates couldn't count on him to help them improve and that he, and this is a quote, "fell off the map a couple of years ago" and that no one knew what kind of a player he was anymore. Say what? McCutchen is 30 years old and had a poor age 29 season. He's not at a stage where most players "fall off the map" and he had a series of injuries in 2016. To say that decline goes back 2 years is absurd on it's face as he was a 5.8 fWAR player in 2015. Is he going to ever be that 7-8 WAR player he was in his 25-27 seasons? Probably not but to say he likely won't help the Pirates is ignorant and misses the point of statistical outlier years in baseball, and yet plenty have been flapping their gums about it. If McCutchen is healthy I expect him to be somewhere between 4.5 and 5.5 WAR in 2017. I think that might help the Pirates right? C'mon.

Heyward had a much worse year at the plate than did McCutchen and his offensive game has never lived up to the expectations that were put on him early as the hometown kid made good in Atlanta. The Cubs don't need that guy anyway and based on his talent, dedication and frankly baseball history there isn't anything that suggests that in his age 28 season he won't at least get back to his career numbers which if he does that makes him a 5 WAR player or so. Baseball is a game of questions and the media and some fans always seem to be looking for hard answers and guarantees. Those don't really exist.

 

[FirstTimer]

I just want to know when Theo and Jed start taking some heat for this contract if he does suck, and Soler has 25 bombs by the all star game.

If the Cubs remain a 90-100 win team, keep going deep into the playoffs and perhaps add another WS title.....they never will.

If we have seen the highwater mark and they don't get another WS title....the Heyward contract will be a footnote.

 

[Diehardfan]

I think a lot of this is just the "what have you done for me lately" aspect of baseball. I've been more tuned into the national baseball media over the last year or so and this isn't just about Heyward or Chicago, it's a common theme. Last week I heard a discussion about Andrew McCutchen and how the host felt that the Pirates couldn't count on him to help them improve and that he, and this is a quote, "fell off the map a couple of years ago" and that no one knew what kind of a player he was anymore. Say what? McCutchen is 30 years old and had a poor age 29 season. He's not at a stage where most players "fall off the map" and he had a series of injuries in 2016. To say that decline goes back 2 years is absurd on it's face as he was a 5.8 fWAR player in 2015. Is he going to ever be that 7-8 WAR player he was in his 25-27 seasons? Probably not but to say he likely won't help the Pirates is ignorant and misses the point of statistical outlier years in baseball, and yet plenty have been flapping their gums about it. If McCutchen is healthy I expect him to be somewhere between 4.5 and 5.5 WAR in 2017. I think that might help the Pirates right? C'mon.

Heyward had a much worse year at the plate than did McCutchen and his offensive game has never lived up to the expectations that were put on him early as the hometown kid made good in Atlanta. The Cubs don't need that guy anyway and based on his talent, dedication and frankly baseball history there isn't anything that suggests that in his age 28 season he won't at least get back to his career numbers which if he does that makes him a 5 WAR player or so. Baseball is a game of questions and the media and some fans always seem to be looking for hard answers and guarantees. Those don't really exist.

I don't think it's just baseball, TC. You see it a lot in all sports. Players are getting tons of money....the cost of that relates into higher ticket prices, concessions, parking and just about anything else you can think of. Now if they don't perform, fans get pissed. Jonathan Toews is an example...long, long scoring drought from the end of last season till Feb of this year. Regardless of the fact that he did everything else asked of him at a very high level, the fact he wasn't scoring as he had in the past had a lot of fans turning on him. He's on a huge hot streak right now and everyone loves him again....that's all it will take for Heyward. Get on a streak, show fans what he can do and everything will fall into place for him.

 

[CSF77]

I don't think it's just baseball, TC. You see it a lot in all sports. Players are getting tons of money....the cost of that relates into higher ticket prices, concessions, parking and just about anything else you can think of. Now if they don't perform, fans get pissed. Jonathan Toews is an example...long, long scoring drought from the end of last season till Feb of this year. Regardless of the fact that he did everything else asked of him at a very high level, the fact he wasn't scoring as he had in the past had a lot of fans turning on him. He's on a huge hot streak right now and everyone loves him again....that's all it will take for Heyward. Get on a streak, show fans what he can do and everything will fall into place for him.

Inflation affects everything. Baseball just gets more notice due to a lack of a hard cap. But it used to be 10 mil per was unheard of until the Cubs gave it to Sammy to bash pointless HR's in the 90's.

It is called investing into a product. The better quality of the product the more it yields. Seeing how said investment yielded a 108 drought ending WS you really can not point the finger at the brain trust. Every move that they made dating back to the Rizzo trade has built this machine and a WS trumps all complaints.

 

[chibears55]

I'm hoping cubs keep SH Candalerio over LaStella

C. Contreras
C. Montero
IF. Rizzo
IF. Baez
IF. Russell
IF. Bryant
IF. Candelario
IF/OF. Zobrist
OF. Schwarber
OF. Jay
OF. Heyward
OF. Almora
OF. Sczur

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