Did Pace pick the wrong QB again?

JesusHalasChrist

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Besides "expected" stats is kind of like "almost TD" something we have always mocked around here

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Here - I'll point you in the right direction.

 

PrideisBears

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Yeah not sure where your getting that 33 yards but looking at the total yards that both had this year (minus the one throw in the raiders game for Andy and the 2 throws that Field had in the rams game)

Fields averages 150 yards per game
Dalton averages 201 yards per game.

Now to be fair both QBs has had injuries and didnt finish games. So just looking at the games that they started and finished..

the full games that Fields has played he has averaging 173 yards per game.
The full games that Dalton has played he has averaged 250 yards per game..

77 yards per game improvement going with the "dink and dunk" system..
Dalton throws more than Fields
 

PrideisBears

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You have no idea what you're talking about.

Here - I'll point you in the right direction.

Wait why are you being disliked too?
 

Canth

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Agreed that Nagy should of been fired last year.. But the problem is that the game plan has been tailored to Fields skill set and it has been a disaster, so why should anyone temper expectations when the game plan that they used is the game plan that fits his playstyle?
If you think Nagy has displayed the ability to actually game plan to his players strengths, then I have no idea what games or videos you have been watching. It clearly has not been the Chicago Bears under Matt Nagy…..
 

remydat

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Pff has Daltons on target % at 69.8% so he was expected to hit 69.3 but he hit his target at 69.8? ok great i guess it was slightly better then expected.. his true 64% includes throw always and drops..

Besides "expected" stats is kind of like "almost TD" something we have always mocked around here

The point is that Dalton is hitting the WR.. the "its the WR fault for not getting separation" doesn't seem to effect Dalton

And Dalton is not even a good QB

Ok so if Fields expected is 61.7 and his adj comp % is 64% then that still means Fields was more accurate relative to expectation than Dalton.

Your bias is you only want to make such adjustments for Dalton. You are just wrong about this. Whether you look at PFF or NGS, Fields is more accurate once you factor in difficulty and depth of the throw.

You can whine about "almost" whatever but these are the things any talent evaluator looks at. They dont just look at raw stats. They would clearly take into account that 65-70% of Dalton's passes are 9 yards or less while 73% of Fields' pass are 10 yards or more.

Are you aware that accuracy is likely to drop the further the pass? If so, how does your analysis take this into account?
 
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dbldrew

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Ok so if Fields expected is 61.7 and his adj comp % is 64% then that still means Fields was more accurate relative to expectation than Dalton.

Your bias is you only want to make such adjustments for Dalton. You are just wrong about this. Whether you look at PFF or NGS, Fields is more accurate once you factor in difficulty and depth of the throw.

You can whine about "almost" whatever but these are the things any talent evaluator looks at. They dont just look at raw stats. They would clearly take into account that 65-70% of Dalton's passes are 9 yards or less while 73% of Fields' pass are 10 yards or more.

Are you aware that accuracy is likely to drop the further the pass? If so, how does your analysis take this into account?
Yes I'm aware that accuracy will go down with longer throws.. also the chance at drops goes up with the longer throws.. as does the chance of the OL not being able to hold long enough forcing a pressure or sack and with the chance of a holding call.. Its almost like it would be a better option to go with a QB with a more pro ready skillset?

I never said anything about Fields I said that Dalton had a 64% completion. You said he has an expected 69.3 not me.. I just pointed out that his on target % is actually higher then his "expected" completions.. I never mentioned anything about Fields..

But if you want to bring in Fields accuracy then lets look at his bad throw % where he is the worst passer in the whole league in "bad throw %" (that also does not count spikes and throw aways) so he is at 25% bad throws.. 1 out of 4 throws are terrible with fields.. probably why his TD/INT is so bad maybe? thats worse than any year that Mitch had.. thats worse then Glennon had.. worse then Chase Daniels, Foles, Dalton.. but not as bad as Tyler Bray! So we can all hang or hats on that! Not as bad as Bray! that has a nice ring to it.. we should see if we can get that chant started at the games.. think we can get that to catch on?

Not as bad as Bray! Not as bad as Bray! Not as bad as Bray!
 

Broc

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Yeah not sure where your getting that 33 yards but looking at the total yards that both had this year (minus the one throw in the raiders game for Andy and the 2 throws that Field had in the rams game)

Fields averages 150 yards per game
Dalton averages 201 yards per game.

Now to be fair both QBs has had injuries and didnt finish games. So just looking at the games that they started and finished..

the full games that Fields has played he has averaging 173 yards per game.
The full games that Dalton has played he has averaged 250 yards per game..

77 yards per game improvement going with the "dink and dunk" system..

169.5 y/g - 136.1 y/g = 33.4 y/g

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1639186322994.png
 

Broc

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not very accurate is it considering there is games where Fields threw 2 times and Dalton threw it once..

Again games where they played the whole game there is a 77yard increase with the dink and dunk

Cherry pick whatever stats you want the difference certainly isn't noticeable where it matters (i.e. - the scoreboard).

Both players have put the ball into the endzone the same 6 times.

Listen, if you want to act like the offense was lighting it up with Dalton and make believe Mac Jones would magically un-fuck Nagy's pathetic excuse for a "scheme" knock yourself out but please realize you sound like a fucking clown.
 

dbldrew

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Cherry pick whatever stats you want the difference certainly isn't noticeable where it matters (i.e. - the scoreboard).

Both players have put the ball into the endzone the same 6 times.

Listen, if you want to act like the offense was lighting it up with Dalton and make believe Mac Jones would magically un-fuck Nagy's pathetic excuse for a "scheme" knock yourself out but please realize you sound like a fucking clown.
I'm not cherry picking anything here.. I have been very hard on fields this thread and trust me pointing out that fields only is averaging 139 yards per game would be great ammo to tear him down.. but thats not fair or even close to accurate so im using full games..
 

remydat

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Yes I'm aware that accuracy will go down with longer throws.. also the chance at drops goes up with the longer throws.. as does the chance of the OL not being able to hold long enough forcing a pressure or sack and with the chance of a holding call.. Its almost like it would be a better option to go with a QB with a more pro ready skillset?

I never said anything about Fields I said that Dalton had a 64% completion. You said he has an expected 69.3 not me.. I just pointed out that his on target % is actually higher then his "expected" completions.. I never mentioned anything about Fields..

But if you want to bring in Fields accuracy then lets look at his bad throw % where he is the worst passer in the whole league in "bad throw %" (that also does not count spikes and throw aways) so he is at 25% bad throws.. 1 out of 4 throws are terrible with fields.. probably why his TD/INT is so bad maybe? thats worse than any year that Mitch had.. thats worse then Glennon had.. worse then Chase Daniels, Foles, Dalton.. but not as bad as Tyler Bray! So we can all hang or hats on that! Not as bad as Bray! that has a nice ring to it.. we should see if we can get that chant started at the games.. think we can get that to catch on?

Not as bad as Bray! Not as bad as Bray! Not as bad as Bray!

Sorry did you miss where I said his adjusted completion % is 64% while his expected throw percentage is 61.7%. Your bad throw percentage stat is irrelevant because either a pass is on target and catchable or it is not. So Fields is 2.3% above his expected completion percentage which is better than Dalton. Period. End of story.

You argument was that Dalton was more accurate. This simply is not true when you look at what % of passes they were expected to complete and what % of their passes were actually on target. You can't dispute this so now you move the goalposts to something that has nothing to do with their on target %.
 

baselman1974

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What's sad is Fields wouldve won the AZ game due to his running ability and doesn't throw 4 INTs.
 

dbldrew

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Sorry did you miss where I said his adjusted completion % is 64% while his expected throw percentage is 61.7%. Your bad throw percentage stat is irrelevant because either a pass is on target and catchable or it is not. So Fields is 2.3% above his expected completion percentage which is better than Dalton. Period. End of story.

You argument was that Dalton was more accurate. This simply is not true when you look at what % of passes they were expected to complete and what % of their passes were actually on target. You can't dispute this so now you move the goalposts to something that has nothing to do with their on target %.
I never originally brought up fields and his accuracy.. When all the blame was being put on the WR for Fields shortcomings all I did was point out that Dalton has a 64% completion with the same guys. Thats all I did and said. You brought up a bunch of hypothetical stats based on what should of happened.. OK and when you said that Dalton should of completed 69.3% of his passes and he only completed 64%.. then we can look to see why.. Well Daltons on target % is actually higher then his "expected" completions at 69.8% so its not on Dalton. So why is his comp % lower? Well his real completion % stat also includes, Throw aways, spikes, and WR drops.. so all of those added in are why his comp % is lower..

Now if you want to say that Fields real world completion % is so much lower because he is throwing deeper then that is completely reasonable and I agree with that. If you want to say that he is getting more drops because the deeper the ball is thrown, the harder it is for the WR to make the catch.. then sure we can agree with that as well..

But I have been saying that is one of the problems with trying to build an offense around a guy with Fields skillset.. there needs to be a perfect supporting cast around him to get consistent production. The OL has to hold longer to give the deeper routes time to develop. The deeper the ball is thrown the more the error in trajectory will happen, so the WR needs to have much more separation to help compensate for that. The Bears do not have that support system and lets be honest the chance of us having it before Fields is out of the league is not great.

Fields holds onto the ball to long and is not quick at reading a D and making quick decisions and throws BUT he is a very explosive player that has a fantastic deep ball, so even if we manage to get a great OL that will give him the time he needs to play to his strengths.. one injury on the OL crushes the whole production.

The great thing about Jones is he reads the D correctly makes quick decisions and can get the ball out quick.. and as we have seen in the video when the D dictates it he is pretty good at hitting the intermediate and deeper routes. So if we happen to get an OL that can hold longer, then Jones can hit more of the intermediate and deep passes.. if we get an injury he goes back to the dink and dunk and quick game to keep the chains moving.. His skillset is more versatile and is compatible with a wide range of supporting cast.

Fields theoretical potential is higher.. but that potential will never been seen.. at least not on the Bears..
 

Anytime23

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Im confused. Your thread from last year(mitchs 4th year) seems more like his faults are on Nagy and Pace, yet Pace picked the wrong QB in Fields because he's not playing as well as Mac Jones.

Why doesn't Fields get the benefit of being tanked by Nagy and the talent around him? dbldrew? More the DOUBLETHERACISM!
 

dbldrew

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@dbldrew have you had some time to collect your thoughts? Seemed like you were really struggling with meltdown mode last night. Nothing says I don't care like repeatedly telling others how much you don't care
Me mocking people wasting hours using the dislike function is having a meltdown? I have collected my thoughts and I'm still here posting the same things and have raked up 100s of more Negs.. if I cared I wouldn't be here with the hopes the negs would die down.. but I'm still arguing with Remy.. and one thing with Remy we might not agree on things but at least when he thinks I'm wrong he actually debates it and has an argument..

I don't know what's more pathetic.. someone thinking I'm wrong and rather then quote me and debate it instead they are so mad they are going to waist hours disliking me instead.. or thinking any normal person would put any value into an online rating system, if you think css rating system has any value to anyone then your living a sad life..

Keep at it guys I don't care.. it's not going to stop me from posting my opinion lol
 

dbldrew

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I'm still wondering why OP gave Mitch so many chances and years but is calling Fields a bust after 6 or so games?
I didn't call Fields a bust.. I said I think Pace drafted the wrong QB and that Fields is playing like garbage.. he is.. no matter how much you like fields.. you have to admit he has not played well..

As far as Mitch I was off the bandwagon early 2019 like most others where.

Again just like with Mitch.. if you guys wanted Watson that does not mean you where calling Mitch a bust year one or year 2..

It will be a few years before you can call Fields a success or a bust.. but I think Jones would of been the better QB and fields right now has played terrible..
 

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