Do we have to have an offensive-minded head coach?

[Mighty Joe Young]

I think the reality is the Bears let Nagy finish his contract next year. Then replace him. At that point there will be enough data to determine whether Desai can interview for the job or not.

Nope, can't risk it. You have Justin fields now. Keeping nagy means wasting another year of fields.

I love what Desai has done so far, but it's not like you can't find really good defensive coordinators.

It's all about fields. To hell with the rest.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

The names that most commonly get referenced as our next head coach are Brian Daboll (Buffalo) and Greg Roman (Baltimore). Overlooked in that conversation is how both coach under head coaches who aren't offensive guys. Certainly it hasn't been too much of an obstacle for them to get the most out of their respective young QBs and thus the offense as a whole. Another one to consider is Joe Lombardi bringing Justin Herbert along under Brandon Staley for the Chargers.

We've tried the whole "bring in an OC from a successful offense" thing and it hasn't worked out. Is it out of the question that perhaps the Bears, as a team that's always had defense as it's identity, should at least entertain the idea of bringing in a defensive guy as the next head coach and trust him to bring in the next Daboll/Roman/Lombardi?

Well, if the Bears want to have a football genius, maybe they should go the Baltimore Ravens route and bring back Dave Taub as HC.

Sure, he is not an OC but neither is John Harbaugh who served as the Eagles Special Teams coach for 9 years before becoming HC for the Ravens.

Some positive things about a Special Teams coach are that they naturally deal with the whole team because they are the the part of the team that uses players from both the offense and defense to make up the special teams. A Special Teams coach has to constantly adjust because it is the Special Teams that is most affected by the roster and injuries to the roster. A Special Teams coach is the only coach who does not even know who is going to be on his special teams until after the preseason cuts happen, thus, he gets no practice with his special teams unit until the week before the season starts.

Because of all this, special teams coaches are naturals at "being liked" because they deal with the whole team and most of the future grocery store workers too. And, thus, they already have the only skill that Nagy brings to the table.

Now let's talk Dave Taub specifically.

1. He has already proven that he is not only good at his job but also a genius level at his job.
2. He is already an assistant HC and hopefully, he is being shown the ropes on how to be a good HC from Andy Reid.
3. He has shown that he can create and call amazing plays (not childish plays like Nagy) albeit on special teams.
4. He is used to the coordinators being the coordinators of offense and defense while he does his job.
5. Unlike Nagy, he is not only liked but also respected by the Bears (don't forget how Foles and others have shat on Nagy already).
6. He already has a relationship with the Chicago Bears.
7. He already has a relationship with the Special Teams coordinator (Don't forget. He gave him life and he can end his life too).
8. He can not only keep the Special Teams coordinator, but can add his own insight, making the Special Teams unit much better.
9. He is respected enough around the NFL that he can bring in some of the better coordinators to fill out his squad, while a younger HC would probably not be able to land anyone with much experience.

Now I am not saying that the Bears should make Dave Taub the HC, but I am just adding him as a non-OC candidate who could still add a respectable offensive genius to be the OC and maybe bring back Fangio after his one stint as a HC in Denver.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

The premise that if your HC is also the primary architect of the offense then you will never lose your offensive identity still holds true.

This is an offensive League, most of the rules favor a good offense.

The premise that if your HC, who is also the primary architect of the offense, is called Nagy then you will never lose your offensive identity because you never had an offensive identity to lose in the first place also holds true.

This is an offensive league: most of the rules do not favor an offensive offense.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

The problem is that you need to rely on your HC to be able to find several OCs. If the offense does well, OCs are poached for HC jobs.

Well, he can find good older OCs who tried and failed at the HC gig. Thus, they would be good coordinators (both OC & DC) who would not be interested in a HC position. Think someone like Fangio or Rod Marinelli or Josh McDaniels who all failed miserably (well, Fangio still has hope) as a HC and found success as a coordinator again (again Fangio still a HC). I am sure that there are some older offensive minds who could be much better than Nagy and would not be so willing to become a HC.

I will give you one older coach who already knows more than Nagy. I am not saying that I want him (he should not be a candidate actually), but rather that the bar is currently set so low that almost anyone would be better. His name is Bill Callahan. Not a sexy coach but at least he knows:

As a coach, you're preparing all your guys to start.​

That must be shocking news for Nagy, who barely prepares 11 guys to start on offense and that is done poorly.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

Some of the best HCs are not offensive guys off the top of my head

BB
Harbaugh
Tomlin
McDermott
Staley
Carroll
Vrabell

Just get the best guy, I really don’t care what side of the ball they specialize in. Need a competent, disciplined, and respected guy that excels in game management and game planning. Must be organized, detailed, no ego, and able to hold guys accountable as well as himself. Oh yeah…adaptable. That’s a big one

Dave Taub ... all of the above.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

I want Justin to have consistency when it comes to OC. If you have a good OC, he will eventually get poached and that’s the last thing Justin needs is a rotating door of them.

No, the last thing would be Nagy.

Now what you said could be second to last.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

bears had lovie smith (defensive minded) who went through 3 coordinators...turner, martz and tice...suffice it to say they were all terrible
john fox (defensive minded) had gase and loggains...another shit show
matt nagy (offensive minded) this is skewed imo, he had talent everywhere in KC and could blindly pick anything and it'd work...he also only called plays for half a dozen games or so another should have been red flag....

there are examples of guys who do call plays and are fine like lafleur, shannahan, payton, stefanski, kingsbury so there is no right way or wrong way...

the biggest takeaway is having a GM that can provide talent at key positions and hire a HC that can actually elevate players...nagy has not elevated one player since his hire...

I heard that Nagy told Cohen to stand on a small stool and he measured at 5 foot even.

So ... Nagy did elevate 1 player.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

So the answer to your question is why it is so tricky to find a good head coach.

No, you absolutely do not need for your head coach to be an offensive coordinator. But what you DO need for your team to be successful long term is for whomever you bring in to have a SYSTEM.

What I mean is, they may not have the details per se on the interview, but they need to be someone who has or is willing to develop a core identity of what the Bears do on offense. This can and should slightly change season to season as other teams in the NFL catch up to what you are doing, but there should always be a core identity there.

And whatever OC you bring in, is coming to run YOUR system, NOT theirs. Now, if they have some concepts they like to call that fit into YOUR system, you certainly can accomodate that as part of those year to year adjustments you make to the system. But it will never be completely THEIR system. It will be head coach's core philosophies, built on whatever synergy the coach wants with the defense.

The problem is that you don't have a lot of head coaches who are smart enough to want to give a team a total identity. Most Head Coaches only care about their side of the ball they came from, and let the other side have free reign. And because the league has become offensive in nature, teams fear losing good OCs, so they look for the next hot one to be their head coach, which they may not even be ready for.

Its why its so hard to find a good head coach - you have people like Nagy, who want to be OC in practice but still have that shiny HC title. Meanwhile he's woefully prepared to functionally run a team.

If it were me, I wouldn't look at OCs or DCs. I would look at the most successful Special Teams coordinators in the league for Head Coach. Because its the job closest to what a head coach has to deal with, not to mention you have to take the bottom third of the roster and make something good if not great out of that, and because it is the bottom third of the roster, you constantly have to deal with turnover, be it from the GM replacing the bottom parts of it, or because of injuries, some of your best guys are now pressed into service for the offense or defense.

If there are coordinators who are creative enough to stay on top of that well enough to consistently be top5 to top 10 special teams in the league over a period of 5 years or more, or if over a period of 7 years can rebound from a dip out of the top 5-10 and then reclaim that spot and keep it, THAT is someone I would have on the top of my list to be a head coach.

Because with all that change, someone that good at keeping Special Teams afloat will be a very flexible-minded individual, which means you don't run into the hubris you often see with these offensive and defensive "geniuses". And that means as a GM, if you want to develop an identity on the offense, and an overall Chicago Bears identity, a great special teams coach is going to be the most flexible in willing to listen, as well as the most creative in contributing ideas to BOTH sides of the ball....

To summarize: Dave Taub.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

Harbaugh is volatile, and not sure I'd go there - you may as well grab Roman instead if that's the thinking - all of the offensive insight, none of the drama.

If we are going special teams, I know this is an old name, but I would seriously kick the tires on Dave Toub....

I think he was talking about John Harbaugh, Ravens HC.

 

[circusboy666]

I don’t think we even have an able minded HC

 

[Myk]

Offensive minded vs defensive minded? Yes we need an offensive minded HC. Just look at Lovie, great ones all over defense, meh all over offense. The HC will have the ear of the GM on who to draft. A defensive mind will want to focus on defense unless they're otherwise a good HC who understands the importance of offense with today's rules.

Offensive minded vs good HC? No.

 

[Nelly]

Offensive minded vs defensive minded? Yes we need an offensive minded HC. Just look at Lovie, great ones all over defense, meh all over offense. The HC will have the ear of the GM on who to draft.

Worked out well with Nagy.

 

[Nelly]

Well, if the Bears want to have a football genius, maybe they should go the Baltimore Ravens route and bring back Dave Taub as HC.

Sure, he is not an OC but neither is John Harbaugh who served as the Eagles Special Teams coach for 9 years before becoming HC for the Ravens.

Some positive things about a Special Teams coach are that they naturally deal with the whole team because they are the the part of the team that uses players from both the offense and defense to make up the special teams. A Special Teams coach has to constantly adjust because it is the Special Teams that is most affected by the roster and injuries to the roster. A Special Teams coach is the only coach who does not even know who is going to be on his special teams until after the preseason cuts happen, thus, he gets no practice with his special teams unit until the week before the season starts.

Because of all this, special teams coaches are naturals at "being liked" because they deal with the whole team and most of the future grocery store workers too. And, thus, they already have the only skill that Nagy brings to the table.

Now let's talk Dave Taub specifically.

1. He has already proven that he is not only good at his job but also a genius level at his job.
2. He is already an assistant HC and hopefully, he is being shown the ropes on how to be a good HC from Andy Reid.
3. He has shown that he can create and call amazing plays (not childish plays like Nagy) albeit on special teams.
4. He is used to the coordinators being the coordinators of offense and defense while he does his job.
5. Unlike Nagy, he is not only liked but also respected by the Bears (don't forget how Foles and others have shat on Nagy already).
6. He already has a relationship with the Chicago Bears.
7. He already has a relationship with the Special Teams coordinator (Don't forget. He gave him life and he can end his life too).
8. He can not only keep the Special Teams coordinator, but can add his own insight, making the Special Teams unit much better.
9. He is respected enough around the NFL that he can bring in some of the better coordinators to fill out his squad, while a younger HC would probably not be able to land anyone with much experience.

Now I am not saying that the Bears should make Dave Taub the HC, but I am just adding him as a non-OC candidate who could still add a respectable offensive genius to be the OC and maybe bring back Fangio after his one stint as a HC in Denver.

I'm sold. Not being Nagy is a strong selling point. ?

 

[BaBaBlacksheep]

Not reading this whole thread but my answer is yes. It’s yes because this is an offense driven league and I don’t want the Bears to find a legit OC, only to have him leave after 2-3 years and have Fields learn his 3rd offense instead of building on the one he alway knows. Get a legit offensive minded HC who will install his offense and get the right people to run it. Let the Dc thing figure itself out.

Didn’t Brady run pretty much the same offense the whole time he was in NE despite having several different coordinators?

 

[Anytime23]

Didn’t Brady run pretty much the same offense the whole time he was in NE despite having several different coordinators?

No clue honestly. I know McDaniels has been the coordinator there for like 15 years combined.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

I'm sold. Not being Nagy is a strong selling point. ?

I can make a case for the following person over Nagy:

He has the Andy Reid mustache going. That already makes him probably better than Nagy.

 

[mecha]

No clue honestly. I know McDaniels has been the coordinator there for like 15 years combined.

if ain't broke don't fix it. I thought he was a complete jackoff as a head coach, but as OC his gimmick works. he was wise enough to be made humble and go back. he scored some rings out of the deal.

the moral of the story is the league is always changing, offenses and defenses go through trends. if you can't do it yourself, you better have the right people underneath to adapt or you'll be another Black Monday victim someday. owes to the league's parity too, there's always teams trending up and down.

unless of course you're the Bears, you're consistently somewhere lodged in the middle.

 

[Leomaz]

Didn’t Brady run pretty much the same offense the whole time he was in NE despite having several different coordinators?

Charlie Weiss was the OC for the first 3 Super Bowl wins

 

[Chicago4Life]

Didn’t Brady run pretty much the same offense the whole time he was in NE despite having several different coordinators?

it was charlie weis the first 3-4 yrs of brady's career which i think was pretty run heavy given brady was still learning...then mcdaniels was there until he took the broncos job and fucked that up bad and took a year off or maybe coordinated for someone else...BOB was there for at least a yr or two and parlayed that into the texans HC job and then its been mcdaniels ever since i think...

whoever the coordinator, they molded the scheme to whatever players they had available, back with hernandez and gronk they went 3 TE heavy with play action, when they had speed with moss it was bombs away any chance they got.

 

[remydat]

Nope, can't risk it. You have Justin fields now. Keeping nagy means wasting another year of fields.

I love what Desai has done so far, but it's not like you can't find really good defensive coordinators.

It's all about fields. To hell with the rest.

I would prefer Nagy be fired but dont think it happens.