Don't be a Trade Down Clown

[Omeletpants]

TTB is the best live band in the world and we are going to the show next year....my treat.

Looks like Remy has a Wah Wah

[video=youtube;PlO1bb1IYnQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlO1bb1IYnQ[/video]

 

[Runruffshod75]

Can’t miss:

-Barkley
-Fitzpatrick
-Nelson

In the order, the Bears should take.

Chubb would be a sweat pick if he fell to #8 too. IMO he's the type of player that could develop into a player that has a staggering effect for the better by making players around him more effective.

With Chubb the Bears could have a starting front of:

Base:

Hicks - DE

Goldman - NT

Urein - DE

Chubb - OLB

Floyd - OLB


Nickel:

Bullard - DE

Hicks - NT

Chubb - DE

Floyd - OLB

FA/D.P. Surrogate DB/OLB

Even with the need for another OLB I believe that Chubb would be the type of player that suddenly makes the Bears defensive front scary. Hicks is already an animal & I think he & a player like Chubb would suit each other efforts very well. If a player does fall to #8 I hope it's Chubb. I wouldn't even be mad if Pace moved up to get Chubb.

 

[RacerX]

Exhibit A, ladies and gents.....

That you weren't able to ascertain that I don't like trading down amidst my "word salad," well--that's on you.

It doesn't work as much as fans think. It seldom works.

Remember that Jim Harbaugh guy everybody wanted for HC? The guy and his GM/dipshit owner who traded down and accumulated a lot of picks from 2012-2014? He took AJ Jenkins, Lamichael James, Joe Looney, Darius Flemming, Trenton Robinson, Jason Slowey, and Cam Johnson in 2012? Care to guess how many of this wave of talent are still in the league?

2013 started off right with safety Eric Reid. who's an excellent player. Then Tank Carradine, who's still in the league but a back up rotational player and the 2nd round pick. Vance McDonald is still around too, but a back up tight end no longer in San Francisco. Then Corey Lemongier--no longer in the league, Quentin Patton, who's jobless, and Marcus Lattimore, who retired after a year and a half. Quentin Dial has bounced around the league and has a job being a bad back up NT for the packers. Nick Moody also has been out of the league.

Do you want me to go on to 2014? Oh boy, Jimmie Ward, Aaron Lynch, and Carlos Hyde! What happened with their other 9 picks?

The good times didn't stop there when Jim left for Michigan. 2015 boasted a ton of talent too. Arik Armstead disappeared after his strong rookie campaign. Jaquaski Tartt is a below average safety/nickel, Eli Harold sure is a difference maker too. Blake Bell isn't even on the roster, nor is Mike Davis, or DeAndre Smelter, or Ian Silberman, or Rory Anderson. Trent Brown still is on the roster as a backup OT.

What you missed in the "word salad" was how I called fans who love trading down idiots. Its never as easy as they think, and it takes not just one, but two teams to make a trade. And you'd think that'd stick after years of this bullshit.

If you don't have somebody ready to take at 8 and are just looking to get out of the pick for the sake of doing so, you're bad at your job as a GM/scout. That being said, unless somebody blows up Pace's phone with a trade he cant refuse because team X has to have their guy, I'll consider it then. But it doesn't seem likely this year. If you're Buffalo, why does the buck stop at #8? If you're looking to get your QB, they can move up a lot higher with those 2 firsts and 2 seconds they have this year as trade capital. Same with Denver. They aren't moving up to 8 to get the 3rd or 4th QB. They're going to 1-4 to get their guys.

The straw-men and generalizations are very helpful indeed, thanks.

Please allow me to cut to the chase: either party can "win" a trade, regardless of their relative positions. It's a simple matter of comparing total consideration exchanged.

If a party trading down receives more value then they gave up, they won the trade. If that winning party drafts shit players with the new consideration, that's an entirely different matter, and one that does not change the value of the underlying trade.

You are conflating the 2 pieces. We are only analyzing the trade, not the actual players selected with those picks.

 

[Xuder O'Clam]

Ommy Wiseau and Denny of the Northeast really should get a Room.

 

[Omeletpants]

Ommy Wiseau and Denny of the Northeast really should get a Room.

It's called mutual admiration

 

[Washington]

Ommy Wiseau and Denny of the Northeast really should get a Room.

Rory and First Timer Take II.

 

[Suave Craig Conroy]

The "TRADE DOWN" is popular with fans that dont know much about the NFL. They think that with more picks that some of that shit will stick to the wall. It's a coward's strategy that doesnt trust their own scouting staffs to make a great pick

Its a fact that the higher you draft the better players you get, in the vast majority of the time. So, let's lose out on a better player in the hopes that 2 lesser players will be better? DUH

Hate when we trade up, hate when we trade down...

I think it would show more confidence, not less, in the scouring staff if you traded down that they could find a late first round hit as well as one in the middle rounds.
Also the real fact Is, outside the top 5 picks, players are generally a crapshoot. Best strategy going into a draft is for the scouts and GM to fin a guy or two they really like and make sure they draft him. If they like a guy above their spot, move up for him and if the player they like is lower on the respective board make a smart play and move back.

 

[Myk]

An NFL mock has us trading down to 15.
If Omelet says it do the opposite. Can't miss strategy.

 

[Omeletpants]

An NFL mock has us trading down to 15.
If Omelet says it do the opposite. Can't miss strategy.

Not buying it

 

[Midway Fields]

Not buying it

You are an idiot.

 

[Omeletpants]

You are an idiot.

Not buying it

 

[Myk]

Not buying it

That NFL has a mock where we trade down?
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...raft-allen-goes-no-1-bills-cardinals-trade-up

Or do the opposite of whatever Omelet says?
I don't like mocks that include trades, too may variables. But both are true.

 

[Xuder O'Clam]

It's called mutual admiration

Of course. Continue bonding.

 

[BornAnAngryBearsFan]

The "TRADE DOWN" is popular with fans that dont know much about the NFL. They think that with more picks that some of that shit will stick to the wall. It's a coward's strategy that doesnt trust their own scouting staffs to make a great pick

Its a fact that the higher you draft the better players you get, in the vast majority of the time. So, let's lose out on a better player in the hopes that 2 lesser players will be better? DUH

This is one of the rare occasions that I agree with you on something you posted. I truly hate the "let's trade down, and draft more mediocre players" idea.

 

[Warden of the Northeast]

Of course. Continue bonding.

 

[Omeletpants]

 

[circusboy666]

Lol ok I’m not seeing any way pace hasn’t spoken with Buffalo now....We need to work something out. They have no qb and have to move up. By middle of next week Buffalo will be without any of the starting caliber FA qb. Chances are with FA some of those top teams will no longer need to draft a qb. Buffalo could move up and grab their future.

 

[TL1961]

This is one of the rare occasions that I agree with you on something you posted. I truly hate the "let's trade down, and draft more mediocre players" idea.

I agree we don't want to draft more mediocrity if we can avoid that.

However, taking the stance that a team should NEVER trade down is to simply miss the entire point of the draft, which is to get the most and best value for your picks.

Scenario #1 - You want, for example, you are on the clock and 4 prospects you have rated equally are all still on the board. You trade down 2 or 3 spots, guaranteed to still get one of them, AND pick up another pick (or more). It is irresponsible - or just plain stupid - NOT to trade down.

To assume all "trading down" scenarios are the same is simplistic. Trade from 8 to 10 and get picks? Far different than trading from 8 to 20. The second scenario should net you more picks but will more likely lead to more mediocre players, vs stars. But the biggest flaw you make in a "NEVER trade down" mindset is to believe all great NFL players are selected in Round 1.

History has shown otherwise.

 

[circusboy666]

People act as if picks in the 20’s(2 of them at that)don’t have value compared to 8. The entire draft is a crapshoot. There are busts at every draft slot every year. I’d prefer to increase the odds of adding more pieces. ESPECIALLY if we add some key pieces over the next few days in FA.

 

[Huxster]

Not a fan of trade downs, however if the Bills is the trade than at 21-22 and our 2nd we could get one of the OLB and say a Billy Price and whichever one of the WRs that Nagy/Pace covert, does better value than that exist at 8 and 39 ??Not sure, Bills would have to really want that QB.

If we did trade back with Bills I could see Pace going back a bit further with one of them to get back a 3rd round pick.