Dr. Death Dead

[winos5]

****, I didn't even think of that angle! You're a crafty mo-fo. Alas, the Japanese part is strictly postwar though dude. It only came into play because of the War so no fams were interred. Unless I was willing to dare pulling a scam of course. Really, I'd just have to be content with the land and the mule.





Back on topic though---Living Wills are the way to go IMO. They can be so beneficial. Failing that then at least DNRs relieve a tremendous burden off families.

Ding!!!!





I'm all for releaving pain and suffering in chronically ill patients but will never support euthanasia. Kevorkian garnered alot of criticism from his peers in medicine and rightly so. His expertice/skill in dealing with chronic pain, depression and family dynamics was suspect. These are key elements to providing end of life care. Apparently medical licensing boards and the justice system agreed.

 

[bookjones]

Ding!!!!





I'm all for releaving pain and suffering in chronically ill patients but will never support euthanasia. Kevorkian garnered alot of criticism from his peers in medicine and rightly so. His expertice/skill in dealing with chronic pain, depression and family dynamics was suspect. These are key elements to providing end of life care. Apparently medical licensing boards and the justice system agreed.

Whoa. . .back up the train. I was just commenting on the benefits of Living Wills and DNRs in general---I think they are of crucial importance especially with the baby boomers reaching retirement age now. I fully support medically-assisted suicide (and its legalization) for the terminally ill if it is their wish and they are of sound mind when they come to the decision. I would NEVER presume to inflict a quality of life that involves debilitating pain and anguish on someone who is wasting away and dying from their illness if they did not want that for themself.

 

[winos5]

Whoa. . .back up the train. I was just commenting on the benefits of Living Wills and DNRs in general---I think they are of crucial importance especially with the baby boomers reaching retirement age now. I fully support medically-assisted suicide (and its legalization) for the terminally ill if it is their wish and they are of sound mind when they come to the decision. I would NEVER presume to inflict a quality of life that involves debilitating pain and anguish on someone who is wasting away and dying from their illness if they did not want that for themself.

Euthanasia is a slippery slope. They are already pushing for new laws in the Netherlands to include people over 70 that are "tired of living" (What the **** does that mean). How soon before a law to include mentally handicapped people that are "tired of living" or Canuck fans that are "tired of living" (****, that's the same example).



Far too often the decision for this is made due to family dynamics and/or depression. Nor do I trust in the government to adopt rules and regulations to guide this practice or the ability of the government to effectively monitor/regulate it. State governemnts can't even effectively monitor nursing facilities. Hell, CPS fails miserably at protecting at risk children all across the country. You can't rationally tell me that every patient that is euthanized is done so being of sound mind at their request, just as some innocent people recieve the death penalty in criminal cases, some ill/sick/elderly patients will be euthanized against their will, when not of sound mind, or worse without even being included in the decision making process.

 

[BigPete]

Tired of living, is just the point. If they want to get off this train who the **** are you to stop them?



I would rather they do it in a clean and pain free manner than to blow their heads off with guns or hang themselves in a closet where a family member always ends up finding them.



Much like crime, you can't erradicate suicide. When a person has lived a full life or are stuck in a perpetual state of pain and suffering they should be allowed to end it on their terms.



But it takes a medical professional to assist in that life ending event.

 

[BigPete]

Nor do I trust in the government to adopt rules and regulations to guide this practice or the ability of the government to effectively monitor/regulate it. State governemnts can't even effectively monitor nursing facilities.

That is totally separate from this issue. You can set a standard or prescribed method for assisted suicide that can be evaluated after the fact by a court of law for criminal intent.



You are talking about monitoring nursing homes here that are private businesses. My wife works in that industry and until the State of Illinois (for instance) passes a law allowing for a Police State, an inspector will ALWAYS have to document, report upon, check up on, and then report upon again to a higher authority prior to revoking a private business's license to run said business.



Another thing to think about there: are you willing to pay for enough inspectors to more closely monitor poor conditions in nursing homes? What about assisted living homes? Retirement communities? That's a lot of state funded monitoring.

 

[supraman]

Here's the thing everyone has the right to die. They should have the right to end their life earlier than nature would. I mean sure you can go die without a doctor's help, blow your brains out, jump off a bridge, OD. But some of those are messy, some of those are scary, and hell some people might not know where to get drugs. Shit I sure as **** don't. So the easiest way would be to have a doctor give you some drugs that make you go to sleep and you don't wake up.

 

[winos5]

That is totally separate from this issue. You can set a standard or prescribed method for assisted suicide that can be evaluated after the fact by a court of law for criminal intent.



You are talking about monitoring nursing homes here that are private businesses. My wife works in that industry and until the State of Illinois (for instance) passes a law allowing for a Police State, an inspector will ALWAYS have to document, report upon, check up on, and then report upon again to a higher authority prior to revoking a private business's license to run said business.



Another thing to think about there: are you willing to pay for enough inspectors to more closely monitor poor conditions in nursing homes? What about assisted living homes? Retirement communities? That's a lot of state funded monitoring.

Disagree. Legalizing assisted suicide/euthanasia is state sanctioned taking of life. The government is terrible at monitoring health/human services. The list of examples I could give you is legion. You make my point for me. You basically ceded that the government does a poor job monitoring health services and you imply we are unwilling to fund more government monitoring, yet your perfectly okay with government adopting standards to allow the weak, ill, handicapped, Canuck fans and elderly to be euthanized.

 

[supraman]

Disagree. Legalizing assisted suicide/euthanasia is state sanctioned taking of life. The government is terrible at monitoring health/human services. The list of examples I could give you is legion. You make my point for me. You basically ceded that the government does a poor job monitoring health services and you imply we are unwilling to fund more government monitoring, yet your perfectly okay with government adopting standards to allow the weak, ill, handicapped, Canuck fans and elderly to be euthanized.

Actually as long as it is not a government institution doing the euthanasia it is not state sanctioned. It is the lack of sanction. It is liberty and freedom.

 

[winos5]

Actually as long as it is not a government institution doing the euthanasia it is not state sanctioned. It is the lack of sanction. It is liberty and freedom.

If the government passes legislation to allow it, adopts standards/protocols/policies for doing it, monitoring and regulating it, how can you say its not sanctioned by said government?

 

[Tater]

Disagree. Legalizing assisted suicide/euthanasia is state sanctioned taking of life. The government is terrible at monitoring health/human services. The list of examples I could give you is legion. You make my point for me. You basically ceded that the government does a poor job monitoring health services and you imply we are unwilling to fund more government monitoring, yet your perfectly okay with government adopting standards to allow the weak, ill, handicapped, Canuck fans and elderly to be euthanized.

Good post.

I love how you slipped in the bolded part too!

 

[supraman]

If the government passes legislation to allow it, adopts standards/protocols/policies for doing it, monitoring and regulating it, how can you say its not sanctioned by said government?

is free speech sanctioned?



Freedoms arent state sanctioned

 

[MassHavoc]

is free speech sanctioned?



Freedoms arent state sanctioned

Actually, I thought it was sanctioned by the first amendment in the constitution? Not all people have that sanctioned right in this world unfortunately.

 

[supraman]

Actually, I thought it was sanctioned by the first amendment in the constitution? Not all people have that sanctioned right in this world unfortunately.

There are 3 unalienable rights, Life, Liberty (i.e. freedoms) and the pursuit of happiness. If killing yourself go for it.



There is of course one cause to all of it, do no harm to others.

 

[MassHavoc]

There are 3 unalienable rights, Life, Liberty (i.e. freedoms) and the pursuit of happiness. If killing yourself go for it.



There is of course one cause to all of it, do no harm to others.

Those too are also only rights because they were granted to man, by man.

 

[supraman]

Those too are also only rights because they were granted to man, by man.

Nope God.





We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

 

[MassHavoc]

Nope God.



We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

You say that, but again, it was man who wrote that and man who can just as easily take that away. All people are not created equal, and you only have to look at how other countries treat their citizens. Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness(whatever the **** that is suppose to be) can all be taken away through legislation just as easily as they were granted. And if you don't seem a lot of your rights slowly eroding over the years as it is, well. I don't know what to say.

 

[supraman]

You say that, but again, it was man who wrote that and man who can just as easily take that away. All people are not created equal, and you only have to look at how other countries treat their citizens. Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness(whatever the **** that is suppose to be) can all be taken away through legislation just as easily as they were granted. And if you don't seem a lot of your rights slowly eroding over the years as it is, well. I don't know what to say.

Oh our rights are gone, been gone, just the loss of those rights are unconstitutional.



The point is those rights aren't supposed to be taken away from you.