Drafting the QB of the future

FirstTimer

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I'm still amazed at all of the people that want to keep Cutler and have him be part of another head coach!

People on Twitter are like "If the Bears draft a QB, there's no guarantee they'll be better than Cutler" Well no, but we're no damn good with Cutler now anyways.

Cutler still doesn't protect the football nor play intelligently yet.
This is the doom spiral of idiocy we dealt with last year. Bears can't draft a QB b/c they aren't as proven as Jay Cutler. QB can't prove himself unless he gets to play over Jay Cutler. Bears can't and shouldn't draft a QB to develop or prove himself b/c he's not better than jay Cutler right this second..maybe.

Jay Cutler is the Central American dictator of NFL QB's. He's Chicago QB until death. I think it's amazing that we see teams being led by the likes of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning drafting QB's in the early rounds but the Bears drafting a QB while having Jay Cutler is somehow so far off the reservation it shouldn't even be discussed.
 

FatBabiesHaveNoPride

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So basically you made a point that everyone already knows, you didn't give some ground breaking revelation that no one already knows. Basically all you did was tell us the sky was blue. So the point you were trying to say is the Bears should continue to settle for the mediocrity that is currently on the roster or draft for mediocrity which would cost a whole lot less in the nearer future.



So you list two teams that have hit the jackpot twice and you wonder why the Bears haven't been able to do that? Even if the Bears were to tank and have a the #1 pick your list shows that even the #1 pick in the draft is a crap shoot and isn't a sure fire elite QB...see Smith, Alex and Russell, JaMarcus.

The problem you are having is you are wanting an instant phenom instead of having the Bears do the one thing most teams have to settle for...actually developing a player. The QB's that were listed are young and are still learning the NFL style of play. You made the point that the QB position is one of the hardest positions in the NFL and that only a fraction of the players that get drafted actually go on to succeed.

Go back and look at Drew Brees' first 2 seasons as a starter, look at Roethlisberger's first 3 seasons as an NFL starter, Look at Brady's first season as a starter, hell even look at Peyton Manning's first season as a starter. A lot of QB's need time to develop, some take more time than others but they do need more than 2 years, so before clamor that Glennon, who has looked solid in his first two years as a pro, is some garbage player at least let him get another year under his belt. Not claiming he is the next Brees or Roethlisberger, just saying he doesn't look as bad as you claim he is.



And after all this "no shit" manifesto you just typed you came to the same solution that there is no solution and that more than likely teams will have to settle for good to above average players unless they get "lucky" enough to have a shitty season in a year where there is a surefire HOF QB coming out.

You just named players that have been in the league for 10 plus years.

That luxury is over. That's for proving my point.

Yes, the sky is blue. Elite QBs don't grow on trees. There has been 1 to come into the league in the last 10 years. And he was a #1 pick and arguably the most 'sure thing' to come out of college in the last 20 years. A once in a generation guy.

So, we go with your scenario - grooming a guy. Ok, great. Look at the guys over the last 10 years. Do you see any that are being groomed to go on to have enough success to win a SB? I don't. Wilson was the only notable exception and no one saw that coming. There are surprises (like Brady) and Wilson was one of them.

The Bears had many holes to fill. They didn't have a first round pick for two years. They had very significant holes to fill over the last few drafts and couldn't afford to take a 'take him or leave him' QB with a mid first round pick. It's the conundrum of a middle of the pack team with problems.

The days of a talent like Aaron Rodgers collecting dust on the bench learning from a HOFer are over. That NFL doesn't exist anymore.

The NFL of 10-15 years ago was one in which guys like Brady or Roethlisberger or Rodgers could get their sea legs about them. Unfortunately, the NFL is win now league and young mid-talent QBs are thrown into the mix and most suck. None of the mid round guys are having any impact of note (Wilson being the only exception and he was fortunate to a) come into a team with a TON of talent on both sides of the ball and b) have a unique quality that the NFL just wasn't and really isn't to this day, capable of accurately defending).

I look at the current crop of college QBs and none excite me. Same goes for last year. Does a mid round guy like AJ McCarron or David Fales excite you? Is that the guy to bring the Bears a SB in a division which he has to get past Aaron Rodgers? Hell, even guys that looked like they had all the NFL tools - Matt Barkley for example - go on to be just 'meh' guys.
 

FirstTimer

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I posted Cutler's career numbers and numbers with the Bears yesterday. I don't think people realize how mind numbingly average he has been. As a starter he's barely noticeably better statistically than Ryan Fitzpatrick. Mike Glennon apparently "sucks" or something and Cutler with the Bears has been pretty much o par with Glennon efficiency wise.
 

EcuadorianBearFan

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Any person that takes about dopey things like 'passion' and 'caring' and 'leading' and a) can't define them, b) can't articulate why the are or aren't the difference between a player playing well and c) has no way of knowing if said player exhibits these traits or not - is the one whose NFL - and sports in general - knowledge is in question.

But please, what the hell does 'heart' even mean? You want players to scream and yell like a dopey fan? You want players to act like you do?

You bring up Brady and Rodgers. Two of the best players - in the history of the fucking NFL - playing on teams with two of the best coaches in the game - in one instance, in the history of the game. THAT is your baseline? Aaron Rodgers said RELAX - because he's Aaron Fucking Rodgers.

Jay may care a lot. He may not care at all. He may have a lot of passion. He may have not at all. You think that is the reason why he is playing below average this season?

Lamarr Houston had a whole ton of 'passion' when he got a meaningless sack. What did that translate to?

Rex Ryan shows a ton of passion - as he coaches his team to the worst record in the NFL.

Seriously, enough is enough. Can we please officially ban the 'heart and fire and passion' bullshit from sports for the rest of time?

Obviously you have never played any sport in your life. You cannot understand HEART, FIRE, PASSION by reading it, you either know it or you don't.
 

FatBabiesHaveNoPride

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The 2012 Bears were 10-6. This included Jay Cutler going a combined 23-48 for 272 yards and 2 TD's and 5 INT's vs GB in those two losses. IMO Brunell doesn't do that and gives the Bears a chance to win. All of a sudden that Bears team is sitting there at 12-4 or 13-3 if he doesn't lay the turd against Minny Jay laid that year as well. The Bears would have been a better team with a prime Brunell at QB and they were already 10-6. If they can win ONE home playoff game they are in the NFCCG.

At this stage you can't even understand the point being made.

I'll restate it:

I don't know why the standard for a QB to replace an average producing non-PB making QB in Jay Cutler is the Bears have to hit on a sure fire HOF'er or a guy who is going to be maybe the best QB in the NFL someday. The Bears could find the modern day version of Mark Brunell and it'd be an upgrade over Cutler.

The Bears would not be mediocre with Brunell. If the Bears had the modern day equivalent of Mark Brunell for the last 5-6 years of this Cutler fiasco they likely would have made multiple NFCG and possibly a SB or two. The thing that kept the Bears mediocre for years has been Jay Cutler. Now that the defense has fallen apart people have seemed to forget how many years of elite defenses Cutler pissed away by not being able to protect the football and play intelligently.

And while those defenses were elite, the Bears had a shit o-line, 17 offensive coordinators, dogshit WRs, a TE who couldn't block and a head coach who had no concept of offense.

Yes, Cutler is not the guy, but let's not change history.

Sure doesn't sound like the type of teams that would win 'multiple' NFCGs with a middle of the pack QB (Brunnell) at the helm.
 

FirstTimer

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And while those defenses were elite, the Bears had a shit o-line, 17 offensive coordinators, dogshit WRs, a TE who couldn't block and a head coach who had no concept of offense.
Yet even with a marginal QB they went 10-6! You're acting as though I'm talking about a team that was 6-10 or 7-9.



Sure doesn't sound like the type of teams that would win 'multiple' NFCGs with a middle of the pack QB (Brunnell) at the helm.
I never said they'd "win" multiple NFCCG's. I said they would have GONE TO multiple NFCCG's and POSSIBLY a SB or two. I have zero doubt with a prime Mark Brunell type player those Bears teams make multiple NFCCG's. The SB's are a little tougher. Who do we play, where at etc?

You're not even understanding the point.

I don't know why the standard for a QB to replace an average producing non-PB making QB in Jay Cutler is the Bears have to hit on a sure fire HOF'er or a guy who is going to be maybe the best QB in the NFL someday. The Bears could find the modern day version of Mark Brunell and it'd be an upgrade over Cutler.

The point of this exercise is to improve the QB position. The Bears don't need to hit on Andrew Luck to do that. They could hit on a perfectly good player in the arena of Mark Brunell and do that. You're so damn hung up on pissing and moaning about an example to prove the larger idea that you don't even understand the underlying and base premise.
 

gwharris2254

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We are stuck with fucler for two more years.
Just go QB in the 2nd round both upcoming years and we should get a better starter than fucler.
1st round has to be McKinney and a CB again like fuller
 

FatBabiesHaveNoPride

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I posted Cutler's career numbers and numbers with the Bears yesterday. I don't think people realize how mind numbingly average he has been. As a starter he's barely noticeably better statistically than Ryan Fitzpatrick. Mike Glennon apparently "sucks" or something and Cutler with the Bears has been pretty much o par with Glennon efficiency wise.

Most NFL QBs are mind numbingly average.
 

bearmick

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Precisely.

As I stated earlier - there are 32 men - in a planet of 7B - that can do this job.

LOL 7 billion, get real. A few hundred actually make their lives about trying to be a QB. Most of these 7 billion don't know or care what a QB even is. There are thousands of better and more skilled athletes all over the planet than Jay Cutler. Probably tens of thousands.

Finding a quality - not excellent - just quality QB is a nearly impossible task. There have been two 'sure things' in the NFL in the last 15 years - Payton Manning and Andrew Luck. There are no 'sure things' on the horizon at the college level.

So never even TRY to find a QB until you're in the #1 overall spot in a year when the next sure thing breaks out? Come on. The vast majority of superior QBs to Jay Cutler are guys who aren't named Manning or Luck.
 
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FatBabiesHaveNoPride

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Obviously you have never played any sport in your life. You cannot understand HEART, FIRE, PASSION by reading it, you either know it or you don't.

I played every sport under the sun as a little kid. I played baseball for 4 years in high school. Football for 3. As a grown up father of three, I play in a competitive softball league and a rec softball league. I play in a rat hockey league that starts this Sunday.

None of that has anything to do with NFL football.

I don't, nor have I ever played NFL football. Neither have you.

This isn't coach Eric Taylor on Friday Night Lights encouraging 16 years with a fire and passion speech. These are the highest caliber players on the planet getting paid tens of millions of dollars to do so. There is no comparison of some dopey 'heart and passion' nonsense.

Mike Singletary was the most 'HEART, FIRE, PASSION' coach the NFL has seen in many years. And guess what? None of that mattered. The AFC East features two coaches - one of which has a tremendous amount of FIRE AND PASSION. And he'll be fired at the end of the season. The other has zero FIRE. He's most likely going to appear in his 5th SuperBowl this year.

You have no idea what you are talking about. You are doing silly fan projection. You want players and coached to act like dipshit fans. I don't. I want players and coaches to make smart decisions, outsmart their opponents and play mistake free football. I could give one tenth of one shit about 'passion'.
 

FatBabiesHaveNoPride

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So then why exactly should the Bears NOT aggressively look to upgrade?

I'm not saying they shouldn't be. They absolutely should be. I'm simply saying that latching on to Elite QB - hell, even a very good one - is a tough thing to do. The Bears, or any other team, had better be prepared to spend a first round pick on one (a luxury they didn't have with the massive repairs they needed to the Oline after the '12 season and the defense after the '13 season and frankly, the needs at safety and LB after this season).

Now, if you want to talk about 'grooming' a mid round player - which is rarely successful - fair enough. That just doesn't happen on a team that swaps out it's offensive coordinator every Christmas Eve.
 

FatBabiesHaveNoPride

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Cutler's turnover proneness is not average.

While this is true, the skills he does have are not average either. We've all seen balls he throws that very few other QBs in the NFL can't make.

That is what is so frustrating about him - has all of the tools and abilities. Just can't stop the mistakes and get out of his own way.

That is what makes him average. Some average QBs do a number of things averagely. Some average QBs do some things very well and some things poorly. That's what makes them average.

The reality is that Jay Cutler is a middle of the road NFL QB. Kyle Orton is also a middle of the road NFL QB. The difference is that Kyle Orton won't make critical crippling mistakes like Jay Cutler will. And neither guy is the answer for their middle of the road teams.

He is the Derrick Coleman of the NFL.
 

Warrior Spirit

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We are stuck with fucler for two more years.
Only if the Bears want to be. The most opportune time to let him go would be after next season cause the Bears would still save some of that guaranteed money and a lot of cap space. I wouldn't give up on letting him go before the start of next year either. It seems crazy to think any team would want to trade for him but I'm sure the Jets will be looking for 3 or 4 QBs before the start of next season.
 

FirstTimer

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I'm not saying they shouldn't be. They absolutely should be. I'm simply saying that latching on to Elite QB - hell, even a very good one - is a tough thing to do. The Bears, or any other team, had better be prepared to spend a first round pick on one (a luxury they didn't have with the massive repairs they needed to the Oline after the '12 season and the defense after the '13 season and frankly, the needs at safety and LB after this season).

Now, if you want to talk about 'grooming' a mid round player - which is rarely successful - fair enough. That just doesn't happen on a team that swaps out it's offensive coordinator every Christmas Eve.

Well no shit. But why is that even a point? The next Bears QB does not have to be "elite" to be an upgrade over Jay Cutler. That standard is absurd. That's why I brought up Mark Brunell. He was easily a better QB than Jay Cutler. Wasn't "elite". I have no idea why when a discussion about moving on from Cutler comes up the other side jumps to "elite QB's aren't easy to find!!" Ok. Cutler isn't a tier below elite and you could find a non-elite QB and still have it be an upgrade..so ummm...WHATS YOUR POINT?!?!
 

FirstTimer

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While this is true, the skills he does have are not average either. We've all seen balls he throws that very few other QBs in the NFL can't make.

Those skills are completely irrelevant at this point because they don't lead to production that matches them.

Cutler's physical tools at this point are completely moot and meaningless.
 

Warrior Spirit

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While this is true, the skills he does have are not average either. We've all seen balls he throws that very few other QBs in the NFL can't make.

That is what is so frustrating about him - has all of the tools and abilities. Just can't stop the mistakes and get out of his own way.

That is what makes him average. Some average QBs do a number of things averagely. Some average QBs do some things very well and some things poorly. That's what makes them average.

The reality is that Jay Cutler is a middle of the road NFL QB. Kyle Orton is also a middle of the road NFL QB. The difference is that Kyle Orton won't make critical crippling mistakes like Jay Cutler will. And neither guy is the answer for their middle of the road teams.

He is the Derrick Coleman of the NFL.
Let's stop this BS about his "skills". It comes down to the one skill fans get enamored with and that's the big arm. It's an overrated "skill". There's been plenty of real big arms w/QBs who have failed miserably at being a QB and there are plenty of great QBs who weren't noted has having that "skill". Most QBs in the league today can make all the throws required of them so I piss on that "skill".
 

FatBabiesHaveNoPride

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Well no shit. But why is that even a point? The next Bears QB does not have to be "elite" to be an upgrade over Jay Cutler. That standard is absurd. That's why I brought up Mark Brunell. He was easily a better QB than Jay Cutler. Wasn't "elite". I have no idea why when a discussion about moving on from Cutler comes up the other side jumps to "elite QB's aren't easy to find!!" Ok. Cutler isn't a tier below elite and you could find a non-elite QB and still have it be an upgrade..so ummm...WHATS YOUR POINT?!?!

The point is that most of the QBs in the NFL - including most draft picks - are frightfully average.

All of this could net the exact same result.

Regardless, this team will go nowhere with this defense.
 

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