Dwayne Bowe: Josh McCown has potential to be a top-five quarterback

[Bearly]

Define better.
Better runner, stronger arm? Cutler and plummer are almost exactly the same guy... And I would take Plummers 03-05 seasons over any 3 cherry picked seasons of Cutlers.

As for McCown, that is a really difficult call. Jay played some of his most consistent and arguably best football that he has played with the bears last year and the year prior.
After watching Jay have a lesser degree of success and accuracy in 2014 playing the exact same style of ball McCown did in his 2013 stretch, Watching less precise passes and lesser degrees of awareness of how a play was defended, I am inclined to say that Cutler is less talented in that regard.
I went in to 2014 thinking cutler was WAAAAAYYYY overpriced, but thought he was a touch better than McCown with his deep game and physical traits... but through the season he couldnt throw a deep ball to save his life, his pocket awareness was crap and he was getting stripped of the ball at an alarming rate.
With the 2 of them playing the same game, the differences were HUGE. even if you chalk up a percentage of jays struggles as bad luck, and chalk up McCowns success as incredibly great luck, there is still a gulf between their performances that you can see on a play by play level.

Correct me if I am jaded or being a little too rough here- Cutler was sold to us as a gunslinger who could push the ball deep and extend plays with his athleticism... something that was evident in denver.
Since being in chicago, he has had annual missed time injuries and a dissapointing season last year.. and he has struggled to be even remotely accurate hitting 3 incredibly talented guys with jump balls, let alone in stride. When he is moving in the pocket it is more stressful worrying that he will fumble or tear his groin than it is exciting that he is extending the play.
His potential attributes have been AWOL for years, and last year we were left with a high priced check down charlie that couldn't do it as well as McCown.

If you really believe that Cutler has a little gas in the tank and can get back to what he used to do- Yes, Cutler is better than McCown.
Personally, after 2014, I think those potential attributes are long gone and we are left with someone whos poor reading of the field makes him a lesser version of McCown.

None are the answer but you're banking on a guy, Plummer, that had exactly the same amount of INTs to TDs and a 74 rating. It's getting silly. Yes, Jay is way overpaid and very average overall. Big fucking deal. This is all just pissing in the wind until we actually find something better. Is Plummer making a comeback because I don't want him. Where's Rodney Peete? Until then, we deal with Jay's current contract and do what's best for the team.

 

[FatBabiesHaveNoPride]

Did anyone watch the Dallas game? Dallas literally dropped 4 easy picks.

Not to mention that one of the tds was the mother of all holy shit circus catches. And wasn't the other Alshon catch a josh throw?

As mentioned, against a good Rams D he was pedestrian at best

McCown is a great guy and apparently a smart player, hard worker and willing to help out others. That makes him a nice career back up

The fact that an NFL team is paying him big money to be a starter tells you how weak the talent is at QB in the NFL

 

[Jester]

Did anyone watch the Dallas game? Dallas literally dropped 4 easy picks.

Not to mention that one of the tds was the mother of all holy shit circus catches. And wasn't the other Alshon catch a josh throw?

As mentioned, against a good Rams D he was pedestrian at best

McCown is a great guy and apparently a smart player, hard worker and willing to help out others. That makes him a nice career back up

The fact that an NFL team is paying him big money to be a starter tells you how weak the talent is at QB in the NFL

This 100%. I like the guy, but come on. I would love him as a backup. Agreed on the Dallas game, but you can't tell some around here. The Dallas game earned a lot of money for Josh and I am happy for him.

 

[onebud34]

Did anyone watch the Dallas game? Dallas literally dropped 4 easy picks.

Not to mention that one of the tds was the mother of all holy shit circus catches. And wasn't the other Alshon catch a josh throw?

As mentioned, against a good Rams D he was pedestrian at best

McCown is a great guy and apparently a smart player, hard worker and willing to help out others. That makes him a nice career back up

The fact that an NFL team is paying him big money to be a starter tells you how weak the talent is at QB in the NFL

This is true of all QBs

The virtual INT is always one of my favorites.

 

[ClydeLee]

This is true of all QBs

The virtual INT is always one of my favorites.

Even the great super bowl champs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K36wgL4VLHM

But they're "almost" interceptions when Cutler does it and it's more negative on him.. Is Josh Gordon going to play for the Browns? That would be a significant factor to help Joshy but idk about all that mess

 

[onebud34]

Even the great super bowl champs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K36wgL4VLHM

But they're "almost" interceptions when Cutler does it and it's more negative on him.. Is Josh Gordon going to play for the Browns? That would be a significant factor to help Joshy but idk about all that mess

Isn't Gordon on perma-ban now?

 

[Tjodalv]

Isn't Gordon on perma-ban now?

The Nazi NFL mods banned hi for a year.

 

[Bearly]

This is true of all QBs

The virtual INT is always one of my favorites.

He's had way more of the actual type, so there's that. I think the point was that he's been an INT machine and it's shown in stretches that didn't record them. Jay throws a lot of picks. Josh has thrown significantly more.

 

[onebud34]

He's had way more of the actual type, so there's that. I think the point was that he's been an INT machine and it's shown in stretches that didn't record them.

Leave Jay out of this

 

[modo]

I step away from the forums for a while and come back to this shit.........


its like I never left

 

[onebud34]

Welcome home!

 

[airtime143]

Did anyone watch the Dallas game? Dallas literally dropped 4 easy picks.

Not to mention that one of the tds was the mother of all holy shit circus catches. And wasn't the other Alshon catch a josh throw?

As mentioned, against a good Rams D he was pedestrian at best

McCown is a great guy and apparently a smart player, hard worker and willing to help out others. That makes him a nice career back up

The fact that an NFL team is paying him big money to be a starter tells you how weak the talent is at QB in the NFL

You can holler about the dropped picks, which happens to every QB, but the fact of the matter is this-
If you absolutely have to count those 4 interceptions, and you feel you must take 2 touchdowns away from him... he still would have had a 2-1 td to int ratio, and he still would have had a 98 passer rating if you count his attempts, completions, yardage the same and give him only 11 tds and 5 ints.

Nobody is saying he is awesome, and everyone outside of Bowe realizes top 5 is laughable.
But the body of work in chicago was outstanding. Most people realize he caught a couple lucky breaks vs dallas. we covered what his numbers would look like if you swipe the tds away and add the ints.
If you just plain threw that game out, he would have a 9td, 1 int, 105 passer rating season which is still damn fine.

In all honesty, given the hot mess at OC in tampa, and using chicago as a gauge, I think signing McCown is not a bad deal. It is certainly far less insane than Cutler getting the deal he got.

Some poor bastard in cleveland had to look at what was out there, they saw McCown, they likely understood the hot mess he was in there, and decided to look at his chicago performance and took him based on that...
Maybe they applied the Cutler excuse formula to his 2014.
1.His OC didnt just stink, he was awol.
2.He was sacked over 3 times a game
3. He was injured.
4. His defense was the 7th worst in the league.
5. He had a brand new coach
6. His WRs were an over the hill guy whos best years are long gone and a rookie.
his running game did not exist... the leading rusher had less than 500 yards in 11 games, the second leading rusher had just over 400 in 15 games.

Cleveland likely understands what he is- someone who is right between the outstanding numbers he put up in chicago and the shit show they saw in tampa last year.
He is a backup compared to the top 10 or 12 guys, even with a handful of guys, and better than the bottom 10 where Cleveland is residing. Without being able to score Foles or Bradford, without being able to grab the top 2 in the draft, Cleveland made the best move they could have made at a reasonable price.
It still wont be good enough for a winning record in that division though.

 

[Aesopian]

 

[Boochee Man]

Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Peyton Manning
Andrew Luck
Ben Roethlisberger
Tony Romo
Phillip Rivers
Russell Wilson
Matt Ryan
Cam Newton
Joe Flacco
Matthew Stafford
Eli Manning
Ryan Tannehill

Yep.....not gonna happen.

Not to nitpick, but Romo and Big Ben have had much better careers than Andrew Luck statistically. Luck is too turnover prone to rank him in the top 5.

 

[Bearly]

You can holler about the dropped picks, which happens to every QB, but the fact of the matter is this-
If you absolutely have to count those 4 interceptions, and you feel you must take 2 touchdowns away from him... he still would have had a 2-1 td to int ratio, and he still would have had a 98 passer rating if you count his attempts, completions, yardage the same and give him only 11 tds and 5 ints.

Nobody is saying he is awesome, and everyone outside of Bowe realizes top 5 is laughable.
But the body of work in chicago was outstanding. Most people realize he caught a couple lucky breaks vs dallas. we covered what his numbers would look like if you swipe the tds away and add the ints.
If you just plain threw that game out, he would have a 9td, 1 int, 105 passer rating season which is still damn fine.

In all honesty, given the hot mess at OC in tampa, and using chicago as a gauge, I think signing McCown is not a bad deal. It is certainly far less insane than Cutler getting the deal he got.

Some poor bastard in cleveland had to look at what was out there, they saw McCown, they likely understood the hot mess he was in there, and decided to look at his chicago performance and took him based on that...
Maybe they applied the Cutler excuse formula to his 2014.
1.His OC didnt just stink, he was awol.
2.He was sacked over 3 times a game
3. He was injured.
4. His defense was the 7th worst in the league.
5. He had a brand new coach
6. His WRs were an over the hill guy whos best years are long gone and a rookie.
his running game did not exist... the leading rusher had less than 500 yards in 11 games, the second leading rusher had just over 400 in 15 games.

Cleveland likely understands what he is- someone who is right between the outstanding numbers he put up in chicago and the shit show they saw in tampa last year.
He is a backup compared to the top 10 or 12 guys, even with a handful of guys, and better than the bottom 10 where Cleveland is residing. Without being able to score Foles or Bradford, without being able to grab the top 2 in the draft, Cleveland made the best move they could have made at a reasonable price.
It still wont be good enough for a winning record in that division though.

Again. This 6 game stretch vs everything he did before and after. I'm not a -3 handicap if I play the the next 6 holes of golf at 1 under. I need to count all my strokes for quite some time. Lets check his last 11 games. 70 rating, 14 INT, 11 TD, 10 FUM, 6.7 YPA. That's been his MO. More fumbles than games started. More INTs than TDs, a 6.6 YPA, a 76 rating and that includes his streak here.