EverybodyLovesPace

[KennyH]

So in 2020, the Bears "should" be competitive? I can see a president of a company appear before the B of D announces his plan to the group. "Myself and My Team are going to SLOWLY turn this company around and will be able to pull even with out competitors in 3-4 years". Yeah, that happens quite a bit in top organizations, right??

I would imagine it's not far from the conversation Jed and Theo had with the Ricketts family.

It's funny, it's pretty much the same complaints on here as was had on Cubs forums by people who wanted success 'now' even though they'd had a pretty bad century. Can't trade our existing talent, these kids will never make it, why the hell we get rid of good talent for jake Arrieta. I remember people moaning that Rizzo had failed twice with Theo and they just traded for him as they felt obliged to keep giving him a shot.

Bears eighteen months ago were in the same place as the Cubs were when Theo started to dismantle and rebuild.

You can't take the Bears from where they were when Pace took over and make them truly competitive in two years, especially if you expect that success to be sustainable. You have to get rid of the dead wood, trade/lose talent that is short term, allow younger players to have more reps and go for a complete rebuild.

As for having to wait four years, I'd bite your hand off for a Superbowl win in 2020

 

[Washington]

That's your opinion so you look at it how you want and i'll look at it how i want and Amos for a 5th round pick was a A.

Cam Chancellor in the 5th is an A. Amos, at this time, not so much. That could change but the grade is based on now not predictions.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

I would imagine it's not far from the conversation Jed and Theo had with the Ricketts family.

It's funny, it's pretty much the same complaints on here as was had on Cubs forums by people who wanted success 'now' even though they'd had a pretty bad century. Can't trade our existing talent, these kids will never make it, why the hell we get rid of good talent for jake Arrieta. I remember people moaning that Rizzo had failed twice with Theo and they just traded for him as they felt obliged to keep giving him a shot.

Bears eighteen months ago were in the same place as the Cubs were when Theo started to dismantle and rebuild.

You can't take the Bears from where they were when Pace took over and make them truly competitive in two years, especially if you expect that success to be sustainable. You have to get rid of the dead wood, trade/lose talent that is short term, allow younger players to have more reps and go for a complete rebuild.

As for having to wait four years, I'd bite your hand off for a Superbowl win in 2020

But but this guy Mongo on this board knows current Bears players and upper management and he says we are doing it all wrong.

 

[Burque]

Holy shit who is this?

That's Chun Li. I thought everyone knew that!

 

[Burque]

Would be interesting to know what people would regards as an acceptable level of progress?

I think games in December that are meaningful is what I consider good progress this year. Making the playoffs would be awesome, but being in the hunt the last few weeks at the very least I consider a step in the right direction, especially if we see the young core starting to develop into a team.

 

[DWBear]

3-4 years? Pace is "turning the tide"? ARe you shitting me? 3-4 years? This year's offense is going to be crap. Expect the paper bags out in droves at Soldier Field as the Bears try Robbie Gould from 70 yards out in desperately trying to score? Imagine what this team is going to be like in the following year when Jeffrey leaves, Who will be left that is skilled. Better give Long some reps at TE. because once Miller is knocked out, they will need soeone to both block and catch the ball.

I'm sorry, your assumptions have me somewhat perplexed. Because we didn't re-up Forte, traded Bennet, and Cut Slauson... the Bears will have a crap offense this year?

Matt Forte (Not known as the best short yardage back)
262 touches 1287 yards 7 TDs (4 Rushing, 3 Receiving)
Jeremy Langford
170 touches 816 yards 7 TDs (6 rushing, 1 Receiving)
* Matt Forte better YPC and Jeremy Langford better Yards per Reception

I would net this as a loss at the RB position, but not a big loss. We can only compare this season's trio to last season trio, when this season ends. New RB that could be a really good starter or rotational Back makes this only a small ? because Langford's stats are fairly close to Forte's

Martellus Bennett
53 catches 439 yards 3 TDs
*This is NOT production that is irreplaceable. I expect even "glass leg"(or whatever you haters call him) to be able to match, but will most likely exceed that production
TE weapon production will be replaced by WR weapon production... EASILY. We only need a decent TE to keep things equal - better

Matt Slouson
Good Guard I didn't like the release, but there was something that the Bears obviously didn't like about his play (whether it was injury or that he didn't fit the scheme) the Bears wouldn't have released him without thinking they had someone comparable or better (he wasn't making THAT much money)...
*Fan Unknown

There is nothing in these three losses that make me think. "OMG WE ARE SCREWED THIS YEAR!!!"

You either need better statistics to back up your assumptions, or you just need to be funnier with your trolling.

The Bears lost 6 games by 7 points or less last year; with a -4 turnover ratio. If the defense can bring us in the positive turnover ratio and the offense even remains as good, then the Bears are a much better team.

The sky is not falling, but if it makes you feel better to think so... at least keep the rest of us out of your fantasies.

 

[KennyH]

Baseball and football are two different animals. The turnaround/rebuild time in football is much shorter. Fewer games, greater impact of coaching, injuries to other teams, schedule, etc. Kyle Schwarber displays great MLB potential, breaks his leg, and the Cubs remain in 1st place. Kevin White doesn't make it to training camp, is replaced by Rich Mariani, Bears go 6-10 and remain in division cellar...Pace's 1st draft is termed a "success".

I guess the difference is twofold (in a nutshell)...Kris Bryant doesn't have a metal rod in his leg, and the Cubs waited until they had Zobrist before shipping Castro off. About the only similarity is that at one point the Cubs sucked, and right now the Bears sucked. Pace has done a great job of disassembling this roster...perhaps one day he will have a roster worthy of a .500 record!

I appreciate they're different beasts but I think when Theo arrived he was probably talking a five year plan - so I was using it as an analogy in reply to the point being made about no organisation being willing to wait four/five years for success.

To stretch the analogy a bit further - I don't think Pace is a Theo Epstein and I don't see Fox as being on the same level in terms of influence as Joe Maddon - they're both in a league of their own. But I do think that when Pace was appointed he was probably looking four/five years in advance - and I think the McCaskey's were on board with that. I certainly think the long game was reflected in his first draft where White was seen as a long term replacement for Marshall/Jeffrey and guys like Grasu and Goldman were seen as longer term prospects.

What I find surprising is the amount of people writing Pace off after one season where a number of young players started to show promise and where he has made a very strong statement in free agency and a second draft. That, and the fact Fox and Fangio appear to be on board for the long haul fills me with cautious optimism going forward. It doesn't however make me think that we can suddenly go from non competitive to challenging in so short a period of time and I accept the season coming will be another where I will probably be satisfied to see incremental improvement and a solidifying of a foundation on which to build a championship team.

 

[Bear Pride]

I have to laugh at the people who say that Pace/Fox are into 3 -4 year rebuild. Sorry to say, but you couldn't be more wrong, and HISTORY proves it. Fox took a losing Carolina team in the 1st year to the Super Bowl in his 2nd year.

Then he took a losing Denver team in his 1st year, to a 13 - 3 team in his 2nd year. Why in God's name would that make people think that Fox is in a 4 year rebuild with the Bears??? You can bet your house that Fox believes he can win it all this year.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

I have to laugh at the people who say that Pace/Fox are into 3 -4 year rebuild. Sorry to say, but you couldn't be more wrong, and HISTORY proves it. Fox took a losing Carolina team in the 1st year to the Super Bowl in his 2nd year.

Then he took a losing Denver team in his 1st year, to a 13 - 3 team in his 2nd year. Why in God's name would that make people think that Fox is in a 4 year rebuild with the Bears??? You can bet your house that Fox believes he can win it all this year.

Exactly. You don't get to that level without the attidude and mindset that you can achieve the highest outcome. They are always shooting for the highest, most challenging goal. A goal that is difficult but obtainable. This is how successful people think.

 

[Bear Pride]

I appreciate they're different beasts but I think when Theo arrived he was probably talking a five year plan - so I was using it as an analogy in reply to the point being made about no organisation being willing to wait four/five years for success.

To stretch the analogy a bit further - I don't think Pace is a Theo Epstein and I don't see Fox as being on the same level in terms of influence as Joe Maddon - they're both in a league of their own. But I do think that when Pace was appointed he was probably looking four/five years in advance - and I think the McCaskey's were on board with that. I certainly think the long game was reflected in his first draft where White was seen as a long term replacement for Marshall/Jeffrey and guys like Grasu and Goldman were seen as longer term prospects.

What I find surprising is the amount of people writing Pace off after one season where a number of young players started to show promise and where he has made a very strong statement in free agency and a second draft. That, and the fact Fox and Fangio appear to be on board for the long haul fills me with cautious optimism going forward. It doesn't however make me think that we can suddenly go from non competitive to challenging in so short a period of time and I accept the season coming will be another where I will probably be satisfied to see incremental improvement and a solidifying of a foundation on which to build a championship team.

Theo said it would be a 4 year plan and it ended up being a year early as they won 97 games in year 3. I'ts a lousy analogy, period. Theo had to purge guaranteed contracts unlike the NFL. He then had to completely rebuild the minor league system, which the NFL doesn't have.

Then he had to develop the young guys, which he did brilliantly. Not even close to how a NFL team goes about a rebuild, especially with Fox, who has rebuilt two teams already in 2 years.

 

[KennyH]

Theo said it would be a 4 year plan and it ended up being a year early as they won 97 games in year 3. I'ts a lousy analogy, period. .

It was an analogy to a response saying no one would ever go to an organisation presenting a four year plan for success - so your actually acknowledging it being an appropriate analogy and then saying it's lousy. Maybe you missed the original point I was responding to or the subsequent posts where I agree that baseball and football are different beasts.

If your just looking to argue, then sorry, not really that interested.

 

[SweetHomeChicago]

I have to laugh at the people who say that Pace/Fox are into 3 -4 year rebuild. Sorry to say, but you couldn't be more wrong, and HISTORY proves it. Fox took a losing Carolina team in the 1st year to the Super Bowl in his 2nd year.

Then he took a losing Denver team in his 1st year, to a 13 - 3 team in his 2nd year. Why in God's name would that make people think that Fox is in a 4 year rebuild with the Bears??? You can bet your house that Fox believes he can win it all this year.

I disagree those were different teams.

By that logic could one say that Fox drafted Julius Peppers and Von Miller, therefore Floyd should turn out as good as them , or is every situation different?

I don't disagree that he believes he can win now and that he may, but I do believe this is a rebuilding team trying to get younger. Just judging the evidence in the moves they make.

 

[Bear Pride]

It was an analogy to a response saying no one would ever go to an organisation presenting a four year plan for success - so your actually acknowledging it being an appropriate analogy and then saying it's lousy. Maybe you missed the original point I was responding to or the subsequent posts where I agree that baseball and football are different beasts.

If your just looking to argue, then sorry, not really that interested.

Not looking to argue, just talking on a Bears message board... I have to say that's exactly what Theo did, however, was tell people that it was going to be a 4 year rebuild. He basically said the Cubs were going to suck for a few year in not so many words.

He said there was no money cuz Rickets was investing in the minor league system, rather than salaries. They traded whatever talent every year that they had at the deadline. They plain were not trying to win.

I spent 2 years defending the Cubs for that when people said they should be spending more money. Everyone was calling Rickets cheap, but they had a plan, and they stuck to it, and it was sure not trying to win right away.

Fox, Pace, is the complete opposite of that as I stated. Maybe I did misunderstand, but the only point I was trying to make was that Fox expected to compete last year, but they were just not good enough.

After this off season, he definitely expects to compete and win. He's not in for a long term rebuild, and his history shows that.

 

[Bear Pride]

I disagree those were different teams.

By that logic could one say that Fox drafted Julius Peppers and Von Miller, therefore Floyd should turn out as good as them , or is every situation different?

I don't disagree that he believes he can win now and that he may, but I do believe this is a rebuilding team trying to get younger. Just judging the evidence in the moves they make.

I wouldn't say he expect's Floyd to be anything but himself. However, it show that Fox has a system to his rebuild, and that starts with adding a speed, athletic edge rusher. Based on doing the same thing as those other two teams method wise, I see no reason to think that he can't get the Bears to compete in his 2nd season as he did with those two teams.

 

[woopig101]

That Sig though.

Since somebody else brought it up, I gotta ask, is that supposed to be April O'Neil?

 

[modo]

Since somebody else brought it up, I gotta ask, is that supposed to be April O'Neil?

yes

 

[SweetHomeChicago]

I wouldn't say he expect's Floyd to be anything but himself. However, it show that Fox has a system to his rebuild, and that starts with adding a speed, athletic edge rusher. Based on doing the same thing as those other two teams method wise, I see no reason to think that he can't get the Bears to compete in his 2nd season as he did with those two teams.

If I hear you right you are saying that they are rebuilding with the goal of competing as early as possible.

In that case, I agree with you.

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

Nothing says "ripping the bandage off" like offloading a LG/C who has played pretty well in the 3 seasons he's been with the club and has a low salary. Meanwhile, the QB who has overseen the last 8 mediocre seasons and was once benched for Jimmy Claussen due to 'non-injury' reasons while being the highest-paid player in the league is still on the roster.

Truly a full rebuild.

Sure, he's played pretty good when he was on the field - what, 60% of the time? Cutler's contract was inherited and they're finally free of dead money (I think) so it will be interesting to see what happens next year, you know, when they won't have that boat anchor on the books.

So yes, Forte, Marshall, Bennett, Slauson they are in rebuild mode.

 

[Bear Pride]

If I hear you right you are saying that they are rebuilding with the goal of competing as early as possible.

In that case, I agree with you.

Yes, we are in agreement. Fox has a pretty distinct model for building a team, and he's doing it again with the Bears.

 

[CNiel36]

So in 2020, the Bears "should" be competitive? I can see a president of a company appear before the B of D announces his plan to the group. "Myself and My Team are going to SLOWLY turn this company around and will be able to pull even with out competitors in 3-4 years". Yeah, that happens quite a bit in top organizations, right??

Speaking of 2020, Hawk where is your 20/20 post draft mock draft? I am looking forward to seeing your picks. I expect them to blow my mind.