Fire Ozzie Guillen: He Needs To Be Fired Right Now

[Gunzaan]

And if I hadn't stressed it in my last post. I want Ozzie gone. NO doubt about it.

Unfortunately, I don't think that KW or Reinsdorf has the balls to do that. If not, ATLEAST FUCKING FIRE WALKER. Start with baby steps, atleast. If not Ozzie, then fire the worst hitting coach in baseball. Do it.

/end rant

(I feel better now )

 

[AE23]

And if I hadn't stressed it in my last post. I want Ozzie gone. NO doubt about it.

Unfortunately, I don't think that KW or Reinsdorf has the balls to do that. If not, ATLEAST FUCKING FIRE WALKER. Start with baby steps, atleast. If not Ozzie, then fire the worst hitting coach in baseball. Do it

/end rant

(I feel better now )

thats what i think, this teams problems started at the top and trickle down, seems like its gonna be gut wrenching to watch this season.

 

[daddies3angels]

KW bad decisions:

- Letting Magglio go
- Letting Carlos Lee go. Yes, we got Pods who had a great 2005 but Carlos has been the better player overall.
- Signing Teabag Teahan to a 3 year deal. He is a below average, platoon player, being payed average starter $$.
- Javier Vasquez deal
- Alex Rios' $$ is ridiculous. Toronto was estatic to get him off the books. He made $9.7 mil last year. $12 mil this year and next year. $12.5 million in 2013 and 2014. You don't think that money could be better spent?
- Manny Ramirez, while pretty minor, was a waste of $5 million (and yes, I know the Dodgers paid most of his salary, but the Sox still wasted $5 million on him)
- The Floyd deal is even questionable. Yes, we dealt Garcia (and then resigned him a few years later) but Floyd has been a .500 pitcher since we got him. For all of the "potential" he shows, he is still average at best.
- Trading away Gio Gonzalez to the A's for Swisher. Gio is a solid starter now, and Swisher sucked balls for the Sox.
- Jake Peavy. Yes, the dude has been one big IR mess, but he had a huge injury history before the trade, so the Peavy mess does fall on KW.
- Gordan Beckham looks like a bum. Sure, blame it on the scouts, but who makes the final decision?
- Too early to tell, but Dunn doesn't look like money well spent.

Has KW made some good moves? You bet. The Danks trade, bringing in Iguchi, AJ, Dye, Thornton, etc. There are good moves sprinkled in with his bone-headed moves.

Has Ozzie managed the team like a complete Special person the past 2+ years? You bet, as you have posted in multiple threads. I agree with all that you say about Ozzie.

But why does the blame have to STOP at Ozzie? Why can't KW be part of the problem? I completely acknowledge that Ozzie is a huge problem, but I also believe that KW is also a huge problem. Look at some of the smaller market teams that have a lot less $$$ to work with that have great teams. There are 15 other GM's I'd rather have for the White Sox, who would spend the $$ in a better way.

I think Sox fans have a tendency to look at the Cubs and how they mismanage their team to justifiy the Sox's average performances the past 3 years. Is Jim Hendry awful? Yup. Does he make KW look good? Yup. That shouldn't matter because we deserve and expect better than what KW has done over the past 5+ years.

KW takes way too many risks and the Sox have too big of a payroll to have THIS many busts. Just as Ozzie's managing has been unacceptable, KW's GMing has been unacceptable, IMO. This isn't about a reactionary move to the "NOW" as Dews keeps claiming. KW has been taking risky moves his entire GMing career for the Sox.

Can go through EVERY GM and find bad moves. Again this guy was the first GM to win Chicago a WS in 90+ years. Only 30 games in. People always say give 50-60 games before you judge. Look at BOS. They had horrible start but could be back to .500 if they win this morning (they still playing in 10th right now lol). I can see CHW getting back to .500 by Mid of June and dont see CLE running away with Division. MIN and DET also struggling which really helps CHW. I just dont see CLE and KC playing this well all year.

 

[DewsSox79]

KW bad decisions:

- Letting Magglio go
- Letting Carlos Lee go. Yes, we got Pods who had a great 2005 but Carlos has been the better player overall.
- Signing Teabag Teahan to a 3 year deal. He is a below average, platoon player, being payed average starter $$.
- Javier Vasquez deal
- Alex Rios' $$ is ridiculous. Toronto was estatic to get him off the books. He made $9.7 mil last year. $12 mil this year and next year. $12.5 million in 2013 and 2014. You don't think that money could be better spent?
- Manny Ramirez, while pretty minor, was a waste of $5 million (and yes, I know the Dodgers paid most of his salary, but the Sox still wasted $5 million on him)
- The Floyd deal is even questionable. Yes, we dealt Garcia (and then resigned him a few years later) but Floyd has been a .500 pitcher since we got him. For all of the "potential" he shows, he is still average at best.
- Trading away Gio Gonzalez to the A's for Swisher. Gio is a solid starter now, and Swisher sucked balls for the Sox.
- Jake Peavy. Yes, the dude has been one big IR mess, but he had a huge injury history before the trade, so the Peavy mess does fall on KW.
- Gordan Beckham looks like a bum. Sure, blame it on the scouts, but who makes the final decision?
- Too early to tell, but Dunn doesn't look like money well spent.

Has KW made some good moves? You bet. The Danks trade, bringing in Iguchi, AJ, Dye, Thornton, etc. There are good moves sprinkled in with his bone-headed moves.

Has Ozzie managed the team like a complete Special person the past 2+ years? You bet, as you have posted in multiple threads. I agree with all that you say about Ozzie.

But why does the blame have to STOP at Ozzie? Why can't KW be part of the problem? I completely acknowledge that Ozzie is a huge problem, but I also believe that KW is also a huge problem. Look at some of the smaller market teams that have a lot less $$$ to work with that have great teams. There are 15 other GM's I'd rather have for the White Sox, who would spend the $$ in a better way.

I think Sox fans have a tendency to look at the Cubs and how they mismanage their team to justifiy the Sox's average performances the past 3 years. Is Jim Hendry awful? Yup. Does he make KW look good? Yup. That shouldn't matter because we deserve and expect better than what KW has done over the past 5+ years.

KW takes way too many risks and the Sox have too big of a payroll to have THIS many busts. Just as Ozzie's managing has been unacceptable, KW's GMing has been unacceptable, IMO. This isn't about a reactionary move to the "NOW" as Dews keeps claiming. KW has been taking risky moves his entire GMing career for the Sox.

bold- there were clubhouse issues with magglio. Didnt we win the world series right after he left?

Carlos Lee- cmon dude, again won the world series after he left.

Adam Dunn? 1 month into the season in a sox uni and you are questioning that? wow.

You are basing the floyd move off of w/l?

jesus christ you cannot blame KW for a draft pick that is not playing well. my god!

alex rios was a block move that failed. blocking the tigers, remember?

Manny? 5 million dude. just 5 million, we didnt give up kings ransom for him. did he produce? no. If I were to go back in time I would do it again, Manny>kotsay all day long

 

[Gunzaan]

Can go through EVERY GM and find bad moves. Again this guy was the first GM to win Chicago a WS in 90+ years. Only 30 games in. People always say give 50-60 games before you judge. Look at BOS. They had horrible start but could be back to .500 if they win this morning (they still playing in 10th right now lol). I can see CHW getting back to .500 by Mid of June and dont see CLE running away with Division. MIN and DET also struggling which really helps CHW. I just dont see CLE and KC playing this well all year.

I can respect that you are a cubs fan commenting in a sox discussion without being insulting, but based off of your earlier comments, you are happy with below average baseball just because this team won in 2005. You already stated you wouldn't care what the team did if you won it 6 years earlier, so I am sorry if I don't really listen to what you are thinking about how the sox are 6 years after a championship. Cubs fans just have an entirely different perspective. Sox fans want a winner every year.

 

[DewsSox79]

I can respect that you are a cubs fan commenting in a sox discussion without being insulting, but based off of your earlier comments, you are happy with below average baseball just because this team won in 2005. You already stated you wouldn't care what the team did if you won it 6 years earlier, so I am sorry if I don't really listen to what you are thinking about how the sox are 6 years after a championship. Cubs fans just have an entirely different perspective. Sox fans want a winner every year.

I disagree a little bit.

What the cubs fans are going through, I would imagine 1 title would be enough...maybe.

He is right on the fact about it being 1 month in with 5 months to go chasing the indians. That is the only thing keeping me somewhat interested.

If it was the twins and we were 10 back of them, id say put a fork in them.

so he does make good points.

I do however want to win every year.

 

[Gunzaan]

bold- there were clubhouse issues with magglio. Didnt we win the world series right after he left?

Carlos Lee- cmon dude, again won the world series after he left.

Adam Dunn? 1 month into the season in a sox uni and you are questioning that? wow.

You are basing the floyd move off of w/l?

jesus christ you cannot blame KW for a draft pick that is not playing well. my god!

alex rios was a block move that failed. blocking the tigers, remember?

Manny? 5 million dude. just 5 million, we didnt give up kings ransom for him. did he produce? no. If I were to go back in time I would do it again, Manny>kotsay all day long

Can't you just admit that KW is 50/50 at best?

- You list Floyd as a positive for KW. He is .500 at best. How is that positive?

- Yes, Magglio pissed off Ozzie. That's it. Not clubhouse issues, he just pissed off Ozzie. He won a batting title for the Tigers. Wouldn't that have helped the Sox?

- Carlos Lee - So, we won in 2005. If that's the case, then you have no problem with our failures after 2005. A great example of how I'm not looking just at the "now." Carlos Lee >>> Pods.

- Dunn - As I said, it remains to be seen. He is being paid a lot of money to hit more then .190 with a sub .300 OBS.

- Beckham - Sure as hell I can blame KW for a high draft pick that is playing like shit. His scouts, his decision, his bad move.

- Alex Rios - Block move? For $12 million a year? Let the Tigers have him. He is wasted $$. A better GM would have spent that money on better players.

- Manny - Yes, let's piss $5 million down the tubes so we could have more fans from the end of August to September on a 3rd place team, all for ticket sales. :clap:

Dude. Stop licking KW's nuts. Does Ozzie deserve blame for his poor managing skills? Yes, he does. Does KW deserve blame for his VERY risky moves that have an (at best) 50/50 chance of panning out, while trading good young talent and wasting tons of $$ that could be spent elsewhere? Yes, he does.

Why is it so insulting to criticize KW? He deserves it man. It is evident by the fact that your arguments with Peavy/Rios/Lee/Vasquez/Teabag/Gio Gonzalez/ETC/ETC aren't really valid.

I'm not asking you to say KW is the devil. Hell, I'm not asking anything of you but to just say that KW has been mediocore at best in the past 5 years.

To hell with Ozzie. If you don't want to be on board with "to hell to KW" that's fine, but stop defending some of his most asnine moves. He has made VERY poor decisions as a Sox GM.

 

[Gunzaan]

All i know is if u told Cub fans they would win WS with Quade in 2011 but would be horrible in 2017 (6 years later) i would take it ....i know its what have u done for me lately thing but Guillen is a good manager. CHW players just not doing what they suppose to. Dont know if it is the pressure getting to them or they just need warm weather. Wouldnt shock me to see lineup go crazy insane once it starts getting 70+

Dews - You defend this guy's statement about KW, but do you agree with his opinion about Ozzie, which is on page 2 of this thread?

If you agree with his statement about KW, then I would assume you agree with this.

 

[Gunzaan]

I disagree a little bit.

What the cubs fans are going through, I would imagine 1 title would be enough...maybe.

It took us 86-odd years for us to win... not that much of a difference.

 

[Gunzaan]

And let's look at teams GM'd better then the White Sox, considering the $$ each team can spend:

Braves, Twins, Red Sox, Giants, Cardinals, Rangers, Marlins, Angels, Rays, and Reds.

Sure, you can make the argument that the White Sox are better GM'd then some other teams, but considering the $$ the White Sox spend, we should be better off then we are.

 

[DewsSox79]

Can't you just admit that KW is 50/50 at best?

- You list Floyd as a positive for KW. He is .500 at best. How is that positive?

- Yes, Magglio pissed off Ozzie. That's it. Not clubhouse issues, he just pissed off Ozzie. He won a batting title for the Tigers. Wouldn't that have helped the Sox?

- Carlos Lee - So, we won in 2005. If that's the case, then you have no problem with our failures after 2005. A great example of how I'm not looking just at the "now." Carlos Lee >>> Pods.

- Dunn - As I said, it remains to be seen. He is being paid a lot of money to hit more then .190 with a sub .300 OBS.

- Beckham - Sure as hell I can blame KW for a high draft pick that is playing like shit. His scouts, his decision, his bad move.

- Alex Rios - Block move? For $12 million a year? Let the Tigers have him. He is wasted $$. A better GM would have spent that money on better players.

- Manny - Yes, let's piss $5 million down the tubes so we could have more fans from the end of August to September on a 3rd place team, all for ticket sales. :clap:

Dude. Stop licking KW's nuts. Does Ozzie deserve blame for his poor managing skills? Yes, he does. Does KW deserve blame for his VERY risky moves that have an (at best) 50/50 chance of panning out, while trading good young talent and wasting tons of $$ that could be spent elsewhere? Yes, he does.

Why is it so insulting to criticize KW? He deserves it man. It is evident by the fact that your arguments with Peavy/Rios/Lee/Vasquez/Teabag/Gio Gonzalez/ETC/ETC aren't really valid.

I'm not asking you to say KW is the devil. Hell, I'm not asking anything of you but to just say that KW has been mediocore at best in the past 5 years.

To hell with Ozzie. If you don't want to be on board with "to hell to KW" that's fine, but stop defending some of his most asnine moves. He has made VERY poor decisions as a Sox GM.

gavin floyd-http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/floydga01.shtml
k/9 is descent, see his whip and era, Prone to giving up basehits. how did freddy do for the phils? it isnt about wins and losses. Jon Danks is 0-5 I guess he sucks too.

maggs/lee- we may never have gotten a championship with them here. maggs was an overpriced POS.

bacon- Who would you have drafted that was available?

Dunn- 1 month into the season? really? from a player who has been out a week from surgery already? is that KWs fault that he needed his appendix removed? If we trade him now, and he starts to do good, i bet you will say that was a bad deal.

Rios-bad move due to price.

 

[ChiSportsRich]

Didnt read all the responses 'cause to many were way to long. that being said, I dont care who gets fired, traded, released, shot or anything, the team still needs to hit. thats the long and short of it, new manager isnt going to help Dunn or Rios learn to hit or Pierre catch a ball.

 

[Gunzaan]

gavin floyd-http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/floydga01.shtml
k/9 is descent, see his whip and era, Prone to giving up basehits. how did freddy do for the phils? it isnt about wins and losses. Jon Danks is 0-5 I guess he sucks too.

maggs/lee- we may never have gotten a championship with them here. maggs was an overpriced POS.

bacon- Who would you have drafted that was available?

Dunn- 1 month into the season? really? from a player who has been out a week from surgery already? is that KWs fault that he needed his appendix removed? If we trade him now, and he starts to do good, i bet you will say that was a bad deal.

Rios-bad move due to price.

Still not sold on Floyd. He is average at best.

Danks has proven to be better, and as I mentioned, the trade for him was a big plus in KW's corner.

A bag of peanuts would be better then Beckham.

Dunn, I already stated was too early to tell, but as it looks it isn't looking good.

Not much support for his corner, nor much admission on KW's failings. Nor a response to the amount of teams that have better GMs then the Sox. Considering their payroll, I don't understand how KW can't be considered a failure. Not an EPIC failure, but a failure nonetheless.

 

[DewsSox79]

hey did KW decide to pitch to Smoak? just asking.

 

[DewsSox79]

Didnt read all the responses 'cause to many were way to long. that being said, I dont care who gets fired, traded, released, shot or anything, the team still needs to hit. thats the long and short of it, new manager isnt going to help Dunn or Rios learn to hit or Pierre catch a ball.

typical ozzie love affair poster. awesome!

do you read the stat lines on his in game managing?

**** it, lets keep ozzie....he can pitch to justin smoak, pitch thornton for 2 innings with a fresh BP....smart baseball manager.....

 

[X]

typical ozzie love affair poster. awesome!

do you read the stat lines on his in game managing?

**** it, lets keep ozzie....he can pitch to justin smoak, pitch thornton for 2 innings with a fresh BP....smart baseball manager.....

Whoever plays the Mariners just need to walk Ichiro and Smoak every time. No one else on that team is going to beat you.

 

[Capt. Serious]

I forgot Ozzie is up there sucking major ass with the bat.

 

[Gunzaan]

hey did KW decide to pitch to Smoak? just asking.

Rofl, you are either mentally disabled or unable to read.

I have repeatedly said that Ozzie needs to be fired. I have agreed and "thanked" every solid post you have made explaining why Ozzie has failed with in-game managing strategies. I completely agree with you on this subject.

When I tell you to stop sucking on KW's nuts, I am not saying I don't agree with you about firing Ozzie. They are two different subjects.

You still haven't answered most of my KW complaints. But that's okay, there really is no answer for most of his failings so I can't expect the impossible. I just hope you can seperate the two subjects.

I am on board with the "Fire Ozzie" train. We agree to disagree about KW. Throwing a 'stupid Ozzie' moment at me to support your argument about KW doesn't really work.

 

[DewsSox79]

Rofl, you are either mentally disabled or unable to read.

I have repeatedly said that Ozzie needs to be fired. I have agreed and "thanked" every solid post you have made explaining why Ozzie has failed with in-game managing strategies. I completely agree with you on this subject.

When I tell you to stop sucking on KW's nuts, I am not saying I don't agree with you about firing Ozzie. They are two different subjects.

You still haven't answered most of my KW complaints. But that's okay, there really is no answer for most of his failings so I can't expect the impossible. I just hope you can seperate the two subjects.

I am on board with the "Fire Ozzie" train. We agree to disagree about KW. Throwing a 'stupid Ozzie' moment at me to support your argument about KW doesn't really work.

here is what is Special person:

Bitching how we traded Carlos Lee for Pods and Luis V during the offseason right before we won lets see....a WS.

Magglio? really? he was overpaid, simple. Again I bet we dont win the WS with him there.

basing the Gavin Floyd trade off of W/Ls. again how was freddy doing in Philly?

You are ripping on KW for spending money on Adam Dunn, bitching and moaning about how he hasnt lived up to expectations 1 MONTH into the season after having surgery.

 

[Gunzaan]

here is what is Special person:

Bitching how we traded Carlos Lee for Pods and Luis V during the offseason right before we won lets see....a WS.

Magglio? really? he was overpaid, simple. Again I bet we dont win the WS with him there.

basing the Gavin Floyd trade off of W/Ls. again how was freddy doing in Philly?

You are ripping on KW for spending money on Adam Dunn, bitching and moaning about how he hasnt lived up to expectations 1 MONTH into the season after having surgery.

Bitching and moaning? More like pointing out all of the flawed deals that KW has pulled the trigger on in the past.

I also pointed out A LOT more moves that have gone bad, that you seem to gloss over, because you have no defense for those trades.

You keep sticking with Gavin Floyd (and W's/L's are important. You want your pitcher to have an above .500 record if you are going to defend the trade. Bragging about trading for a sub-.500 pitcher is a weak argument) and Adam Dunn. (I have already admitted that the Dunn deal is TOO EARLY to tell).

I'm just going to drop the subject because you haven't proven shit in the defense of KW's past failings. For whatever reason, you like the guy and instead of arguing your point, you keep countering with Floyd, Dunn and Carlos Lee. There are just some people that are impossible to argue or discuss things with and I'll leave it at that.

Continue your love for KW :fap:, I will continue to dislike KW and will continue to explain WHY I have those feelings.