Free Agency Talk & Rumors - Bears get Dalman 3/$42M, Josh Allen is RICH ($330M contract), DK is a Steeler, Mack back to LAC

[dennehy]

It was much less common for coaches to get fired after one year in 1989 than today.

Also that tank, as well as the Bears 2022 tank, were planned by management.

 

[remydat]

You can make an organizational decision that you are rebuilding and hence trading short term assests away for long term assets.

However, in most cases regardless of that organizational decision coaches and players try to win. It is just that the resources they have to win are severely limited by the organizational decision above.

You dont want to get in the habit of coaching or playing to lose. You half ass it on the field and you are liable to get injured.

 

[bearsfan1977]

You can make an organizational decision that you are rebuilding and hence trading short term assests away for long term assets.

However, in most cases regardless of that organizational decision coaches and players try to win. It is just that the resources they have to win are severely limited by the organizational decision above.

You dont want to get in the habit of coaching or playing to lose. You half ass it on the field and you are liable to get injured.

Or in the case of players on their last year of a contract, they run the risk of losing money in FA if it was obvious that they just weren’t playing hard and giving full effort on the field.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Coaches make in game decisions on occasion that aren't focused on winning. They may opt to sit a questionable player with injury concerns to "rest him" or "save him for next year". Their play calling also is a tell tell sign they aren't all in trying to win. As to whether or not this is "tanking" can be debated, there are certainly times at the end of the season they are not all in for the win, for a variety of reasons. However, I do think they still expect 100 % effort from the players they do put on the field.

 

[TL1961]

Not holding a grudge. I think you are one of the dumbest people on ccs. Or else a child, in which case I apologize for being hard on you. If you are an adult, I apologize to society that darwinism hasn't taken care of you yet

Check his posts in the JF love fest thread.

 

[TL1961]

Or in the case of players on their last year of a contract, they run the risk of losing money in FA if it was obvious that they just weren’t playing hard and giving full effort on the field.

No. We’ve already established (apparently) that players become temporary HOF caliber players in the final year of their contracts.

 

[GoDJtop10]

Every single year in the NFL, there are discussions at the end of the season whether teams already locked into a playoff position will play their starters or not.

The opposite of losing is winning.

If they were simply attempting to win the game, there wouldn’t be any discussion about which players the team was allowing to play.

 

[TL1961]

Every single year in the NFL, there are discussions at the end of the season whether teams already locked into a playoff position will play their starters or not.

The opposite of losing is winning.

If they were simply attempting to win the game, there wouldn’t be any discussion about which players the team was allowing to play.

I think you’re making the opposite point of what you intended.

Teams sitting players when they’re already locked into a playoff position is 100% about rest and injury avoidance.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

Every single year in the NFL, there are discussions at the end of the season whether teams already locked into a playoff position will play their starters or not.

The opposite of losing is winning.

If they were simply attempting to win the game, there wouldn’t be any discussion about which players the team was allowing to play.

So what exactly are teams tanking here? They are already in the playoffs.

 

[GoDJtop10]

So what exactly are teams tanking here? They are already in the playoffs.

We’re not talking about tanking here.

You and others have made a position that teams always go all out to win. I have shown you that they don’t. Sometimes they couldn’t care less about winning.

 

[GoDJtop10]

Teams sitting players when they’re already locked into a playoff position is 100% about rest and injury avoidance.

Exactly my point.

Teams care more about resting players and avoiding injury to players than “winning” a meaningless game.

No different than me saying that teams care more about owning a better draft position than “winning” a meaningless game.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

We’re not talking about tanking here.

You and others have made a position that teams always go all out to win. I have shown you that they don’t. Sometimes they couldn’t care less about winning.

Again, technology has gone too far in limiting natural selection

 

[DefNextYear]

 

[Canth]

Exactly my point.

Teams care more about resting players and avoiding injury to players than “winning” a meaningless game.

No different than me saying that teams care more about owning a better draft position than “winning” a meaningless game.

I think the part you are missing is that the coaches and the players they -do- play are actually trying to win.

Yes, there is a lower likelihood of winning as they are sitting starters, but all the ones suited up and playing? They are 100% trying to win.

 

[dabears70]

Jimmy Johnson was 1 - 15 his first year in Dallas as the team tanked.

 

[remydat]

Every single year in the NFL, there are discussions at the end of the season whether teams already locked into a playoff position will play their starters or not.

The opposite of losing is winning.

If they were simply attempting to win the game, there wouldn’t be any discussion about which players the team was allowing to play.

That isnt really tanking as they arent actively trying to lose the game for better draft position. They are resting players so they are fresh for more important games.

Exactly my point.

Teams care more about resting players and avoiding injury to players than “winning” a meaningless game.

No different than me saying that teams care more about owning a better draft position than “winning” a meaningless game.

No that is entirely different. In the first instance while players may get rested the players that play and the coaches are trying to win. There are obvious clear examples of this at the end of the season.

By contrast, tanking for a better position would suggest players are not playing to win. There is very little evidence to support. Certainly not the Bears this year and not the Texans the year they converted a 4th and 20 and lost the No 1 pick. So not sure what team you have observed where you can say the players that played were not trying to win.

 

[TL1961]

We’re not talking about tanking here.

You and others have made a position that teams always go all out to win. I have shown you that they don’t. Sometimes they couldn’t care less about winning.

No. You’ve missed the point again.

When the Kansas City Chiefs sat Patrick Mahomes, because they had already locked in their playoff position, Carson Wentz did everything he could to win the game. He did it with fewer starters and he did it with Carson Wentz level talent so naturally, he did not win the game. But that doesn’t mean he wasn’t trying to.

The point that has been made repeatedly and continues to go over your head is that the players on the field are not intentionally missing tackles, dropping balls, fumbling, etc. The players that are put on the field may not be the best in order for the team to win, but the players on the field are trying to win. They are not trying to lose.

Resting players so you don’t get a quarterback ACL blown out in a meaningless game when you’re locked into your playoff position is not tanking. Nor is it intentionally trying to lose.

I seriously can’t believe this is taking this much explanation.

 

[nc0gnet0]

No. You’ve missed the point again.

When the Kansas City Chiefs Saint Patrick Mahomes, because they had already locked in their playoff position, Carson Wentz did everything he could to win the game. He did it with fewer starters and he did it with Carson Wentz level talent so naturally, he did not win the game. But that doesn’t mean he wasn’t trying to.

The point that has been made repeatedly and continues to go over your head is that the players on the field are not intentionally missing tackles, dropping balls, fumbling, etc. The players that are put on the field may not be the best in order for the team to win, but the players on the field are trying to win. They are not trying to lose.

Resting players so you don’t get a quarterback ACL blown out in a meaningless game when you’re locked into your playoff position is not tanking. Nor is it intentionally trying to lose.

I seriously can’t believe this is taking this much explanation.

But is sitting a player that is borderline injured (but could play if it was a meaningful game) at the end of the season tanking, if that team is already out of the play-off picture?

 

[--CyBear--]

Have you ever paid attention to the draft?

Trades to jump ahead of other teams happen all the time.

Simply standing pat because the team with the pick before you doesn’t have the same needs is foolish.

If there's obvious value there, you could be bidding against other teams for the spot.

 

[Canth]

But is sitting a player that is borderline injured (but could play if it was a meaningful game) at the end of the season tanking, if that team is already out of the play-off picture?

I think it's a similar deal. It's tanking in the sense that the front office and coaching staff have decided to sit players, not activate players, or in the case of a front office, not putting together the best roster they could. So, they have made it harder to win with roster decisions before the game starts.

However, during the game itself, I really do believe that the coaches and players are doing everything they can to win. Not putting forth a strong effort means putting out bad tape and their careers relay on that tape. So, I don't think any of those guys will ever intentionally want to look bad. There is too much money riding on it for them and their next contracts, incentives, etc.

If that was not enough, with the increases in gambling, the teams, coaches, and players have to be damn careful there too. It can lead to accusations of fixing the outcomes of games, investigations, fines, suspensions, loss of draft picks, and if organized enough, it can also lead to prosecution and criminal offenses.