FREE AGENT Signings

[TC in Mississippi]

Well here's my issue with Martin. One, he's no where near the age range of the rest of the team which I guess to an extent is the point. If he'd been say 29 I would have had less issue but catchers don't hold up well. Additionally, I think Castillo is a fine player. He obviously has some work to do but I think you can get the same kind of impact Martin would give you out of a lessor hitter to platoon with lefties similar to what they did in 2013.

For the most part I agree with this. Again I liked the idea of Martin as the veteran leader but all the points you mention made the signing only worth it for a price. 4 years/$60-$62 million would have been ok. The fifth year and the extra money made the move silly, and IMHO even sillier for Toronto who aren't looking for the veteran leadership. They signed him primarily on his numbers which don't add up to that contract. Bring in a low price, no hit veteran that can work with Castillo and continue to develop the guys in the system including Schwarber (who I still don't believe is a catcher but no harm in trying).

 

[TL1961]

I must have missed something.

I saw a suggestion that IF the Cubs were still looking to acquire a catcher, they COULD look to Montero.

Didn't see that they "were making Montero their top priority".

Montero is good defensively, and probably pretty similar to Martin offensively. But he would cost prospects. That's a huge negative. And he is owed $40 million.

I am not the biggest Castillo fan or biggest Castillo basher. I'd be OK with keeping Castillo, spending the $ elsewhere and not trading people, unless we somehow do this for "next to nothing".

 

[TL1961]

Per reports, Cubs expect Lester to return to Red Sox.

Also rumors that Braves may be a dark horse.

A dark horse team doesn't surprise me at all. I have expected there would be someone flying under the radar, much like the Phils did when they swooped in and grabbed Cliff Lee in one of the 4 times Lee changed teams.

 

[fatbeard]

Per reports, Cubs expect Lester to return to Red Sox.

Also rumors that Braves may be a dark horse.

A dark horse team doesn't surprise me at all. I have expected there would be someone flying under the radar, much like the Phils did when they swooped in and grabbed Cliff Lee in one of the 4 times Lee changed teams.

This smacks of expectation management. They're trying to prep for a gentle landing if they don't get Lester, especially after missing out on Russell Martin after everyone thought it was in the bag.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

This smacks of expectation management. They're trying to prep for a gentle landing if they don't get Lester, especially after missing out on Russell Martin after everyone thought it was in the bag.

It's posturing any way you slice it. Tempering expectations, sending a message to the Red Sox or signaling to Lester that if Boston offers something stupid they're out. The thing is I don't think the Cubs will be outbid on him. If he goes back to Boston it's because they came up enough and his wife and kids like it there. If Boston signs him I predict 6 years $135 million, if the Cubs get him I think 6 years $144 million. Of course if I'm right I'll pee myself. Who knows really?

 

[CSF77]

Not a fan of it. If they come up short on Lester I'm expecting them to sign Jason Hammel to a 2 year deal. That in it self is not bad. Not the TOR will become questionable.

If it is me I'm thinking one of 2 directions here on the trade front. 1 center a trade around Baez and get Cole Hamels. 2nd option center a trade around Castro and get a young starting pitcher with TOR potential.

In house Turner may become TOR potential but he has a ways to go. Youth is his saving grace here.

If it turns out they hold the deck it will be a failed offseason. Going into next year with Arrieta, Hendricks, Wada, Turner and Jackson in competition then Wood, Doubront and Jokisch in competition will fall flat after signing Maddon.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Not a fan of it. If they come up short on Lester I'm expecting them to sign Jason Hammel to a 2 year deal. That in it self is not bad. Not the TOR will become questionable.

If it is me I'm thinking one of 2 directions here on the trade front. 1 center a trade around Baez and get Cole Hamels. 2nd option center a trade around Castro and get a young starting pitcher with TOR potential.

In house Turner may become TOR potential but he has a ways to go. Youth is his saving grace here.

If it turns out they hold the deck it will be a failed offseason. Going into next year with Arrieta, Hendricks, Wada, Turner and Jackson in competition then Wood, Doubront and Jokisch in competition will fall flat after signing Maddon.

I agree. I'm not sold on Hammell though, I'd like Masterson personally, and McCarthy is intriguing. If they lose Lester and got two of those three and target someone else either in the spring or at the deadline it could be OK too. I like the ides of Lester for the message it sends as much as I like him as a pitcher.

 

[chibears55]

I just have that feeling were all going to be deeply disappointed with the outcome of this offseason. ..

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I just have that feeling were all going to be deeply disappointed with the outcome of this offseason. ..

Maybe but I'll brush it off. As I just posted elsewhere I trust this FO to make this right sooner rather than later.

 

[brett05]

Maybe but I'll brush it off. As I just posted elsewhere I trust this FO to make this right sooner rather than later.

At what point does that opinion turn?

 

[TL1961]

I know the FO has to set their limits, and if Lester gets too much $ from Boston or Atlanta or Toronto, they will back off.

But I would rather see them throw an extra $10 million into the pot for Lester than turn around and trade Baez.

Not saying a trade for Hamels is a bad thing. I mean that $ is far more available than people. If you're faced with a choice of giving up more $ or prospects, give up more $. This is where fans say a team "overpaid", but when there is no cost in terms of prospects, that is not so bad.

 

[CuttyMarsh2012forOffice]

Maybe but I'll brush it off. As I just posted elsewhere I trust this FO to make this right sooner rather than later.

I think as Cubs fans and Bulls fans, we are used to every big free agent we want expressing interest to come here.....only to go everywhere but here. Then we sign some over the hill player. Shit gonna change!

Sent from my LG-C800 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Boobaby1]

At what point does that opinion turn?

When they start going downhill. Up to this point, they have went upwards. Albeit not as much as some would like, but it is still trending due North.

The frustration stems from fans feeling they are on the cusp of something special, and that a few key free agent acquisitions is what will punch the accelerator.

I would like the team to grow. It doesn't have to be all this year, but a TOR pitcher and a secondary is a step in the right direction IMO. Hell, Liriano and Hammel would suffice and leave them cash to make a move at the deadline.

I could live with them taking another year to assess the youth and position them wherever, and whether it is with the Cubs or not.

Two pitchers keeps the trend in all likelihood in an uptick. Then you hope that some of the youth bounce back, or maybe as in Bryant, hit the ground running and this team learns quickly that they are in a playoff race even if it doesn't last much past August.

 

[brett05]

When they start going downhill. Up to this point, they have went upwards. Albeit not as much as some would like, but it is still trending due North.

The frustration stems from fans feeling they are on the cusp of something special, and that a few key free agent acquisitions is what will punch the accelerator.

I would like the team to grow. It doesn't have to be all this year, but a TOR pitcher and a secondary is a step in the right direction IMO. Hell, Liriano and Hammel would suffice and leave them cash to make a move at the deadline.

I could live with them taking another year to assess the youth and position them wherever, and whether it is with the Cubs or not.

Two pitchers keeps the trend in all likelihood in an uptick. Then you hope that some of the youth bounce back, or maybe as in Bryant, hit the ground running and this team learns quickly that they are in a playoff race even if it doesn't last much past August.

So for you a record that is less than 73 wins assuming no cataclysmic injuries would be for you to turn away from your favorable opinion of the FO?

 

[TC in Mississippi]

At what point does that opinion turn?

Great question, seriously. Probably with more than 1 bust and one lesser bust but still MLB worthy player out of Soler, Baez, Alcantara, Bryant & Russell and an inability to fill the rotation with quality arms by 2016. Actually let me be more clear on that. We had a discussion a couple of weeks ago where I had found that in recent years top ten prospects had a success rate of 70% in terms of becoming starting MLB players. Alcantara was never top ten but I'll throw him in anyway. That would make 3.5 of those guys contributing players. In English I need three of those guys to be solid starters and another to be a contributing player either through a platoon system or general utility. I can certainly accept one buster out of the group.

The second part is that I need to start to see that their plan of exploiting market inequalities and building a team on power hitters based on league wide drops in offensive numbers over the traditional building by drafting top arms in the early rounds start to work. By this I mean that they can get those pitchers on the open market and/or through trades and reclamation projects. I'm not jumping off any bridges if they don't get any of the TOR guys this offseason but if by July all three of those guys signed with other teams and David Price, Jordan Zimmerman and Cole Hamels have been traded to other clubs I'm going to start to wonder where those top arms are coming from over a shrinking pool of talent.

The last part, and this is really more of a combination of the first two; if the Cubs go into 2016 on the heels of a disappointing 2015, which I would probably define as anything less than 83 wins, without a starting pitching staff that can go 1-3 with anyone and a lineup of 2-6 that can scare almost any pitching staff, well then I'd be off the bus. The thing is that seems very unlikely to me from where i sit. I've been behind this thing from day one but I will admit that eighteen months ago when I looked at the two key rebuilding plans in MLB, Chicago and Houston, I thought Houston in following a traditional/sabermetric hybrid approach emphasizing blue chip pitching looked to be outpacing the Cubs. Now though it looks different, they were unable to sign their top draft pick and they've had a rash of Tommy John surgeries in their second tier of pitching prospects. Seeing as that is exactly what Epstein and Hoyer were predicting (more surgeries, more development time for pitchers) I'm still inclined to believe in their plan.

Listen I'm one goofy ass fan, I've taken notes over the last few years when these guys have said something I thought was significant and particularly when they've said it twice or more. The arm trouble talk has been repeated more times than I can count and more recently there's been this said in a variety of ways so I guess not quite direct quotes but here they are "We plan on competing in 2015" and yet other times they say this "We plan on being a World Series contender beginning sometime in 2016". Both those things have been said so often that you have to try to figure out what "compete" and "contend" mean to them. I've got my theories and I won't repeat them here because I've posted them enough, but it's enough to say there is a difference and I believe they are telling the truth with both. So when do I jump ship? When the things I discussed above don't happen or it's clear we're being lied to. We're of course to use to that in Chicago because the Bears lie all the time, the Bulls have made it an art form and well hockey is to weird to figure out what the hell the're saying. These guys appear to be telling the truth through a sports lens of course. I'm on board for a while.

 

[Boobaby1]

So for you a record that is less than 73 wins assuming no cataclysmic injuries would be for you to turn away from your favorable opinion of the FO?

No! When the decline starts hitting baring injuries, meaning the players they bring in, and the young players coming up or currently on the team would not be performing too well if they had less than 73 wins.

The Cubs have been able to keep moving upwards despite sending most existing talent shipped off elsewhere other than Rizzo, Castro, and I'll throw Castillo (hesitantly) in there as well.

Other than that, this is a patchwork team that has steadily improved record-wise. So to drop off from where they currently are, and to now have young talent struggling mightily would definitely do it.

This whole team was hedged mostly on the youth. If they fail, the FO has failed, and we're fucked.

 

[chibears55]

Like i said at the start of this thread, the Cubs needs are..
SP, LF, and BU catcher

I want and expect to see them add a starter who will be not just better then wood and Jackson but significantly better and be a part of the core going forward. .
I don't want to see 1 or 2 yr deals on Masterson, Hammel, or McCarthy cause to me that standing pat or just simply band aiding the rotation for the year...

Other then Cabrera, there really no long term LFer available via FA that worthwhile. . I doubt they even attempt to nab him, so unless they make a trade for one i dont see them doing anything significant here besides finding someone to probably platoon with coghlin. ..

BU Catcher or Starter . .. now that Martin gone, again unless a trade is made which i doubt, we will see Castillo starting and most likely they will sign a LH veteran backup . . I like ryan doumit

So,, I dont know... i was actually feeling positive coming into the off season thinking they were going to add a couple of significant players to the core group going forward but now im beginning to feel their just gonna go the band aid route again and just plug those needed positions with 1-2 yr deals on "veteran" players to help the kids growth in 2015..

So, to me if they aren't able to add significant players to the core as they themselves said they hoped to be able to do , and just add band aids.. then this off season should be considered a disappointment and failure...

 

[beckdawg]

So, to me if they aren't able to add significant players to the core as they themselves said they hoped to be able to do , and just add band aids.. then this off season should be considered a disappointment and failure...

Didn't they say the would do that over the next 18 months?

 

[Parade_Rain]

My feeling was they would add several SP via FA. Beyond that I will be surprised. They have a core group of young players they don't want to mess with. A big FA signing for a position player makes little sense from that perspective.

 

[Shawon0Meter]

I just have that feeling were all going to be deeply disappointed with the outcome of this offseason. ..

Probably.

2nd on Anibal Sanchez, 2nd on Tanaka, now 2nd on Russell Martin, likely 2nd on Jon Lester

Nobody can take Edwin Jackson from us though.

Seriously, nobody will take Edwin Jackson from us.