Game 3 IGT Blackhawks at Red Wings (Tied 1-1) 5/20/13 6:30 PM CT

[inactiveuser1]

Not looking good...running out of time

 

[KBIB]

Just another pathetic showing by the Hawks.

Two games in a row you see cheap work ethic from everybody and lazy play on both ends of the ice.

Wings aren't that good, but you wouldn't know it by how Babcock is out coaching Q here.


Ham

 

[Franko725]

Q needs to do something with this lineup, and dressing Carcillo is not the something that needs to happen. I would like to see the following:

1) Reunite the first line. Kinda self explanatory.

2) Convince Sharpie to play 2C like he should be. (Least likely to happen)

3) Dress Smith in place of Shaw. He will however dress Carcillo or Bollig.

4) Drop Bolland to either the third or fourth line.

He also needs to keep Crawford in net. He has been the only thing that has kept the last two games close. Emery is NOT the answer.

On the topic of Smith, he could possibly be the net front presence to help the PP. Anything that might help the abyss that is the PP is a plus right now.



On a positive note, how damn good is the PK?

 

[DewsSox79]

I am sure the meatballs will come out and make excuses. oh the penalties and stuufffz. in a nutshell babcock is out coaching Q. series isnt over but it doesnt look promising.

 

[Franko725]

I am sure the meatballs will come out and make excuses. oh the penalties and stuufffz. in a nutshell babcock is out coaching Q. series isnt over but it doesnt look promising.

The penalties were dumb, and they deserved every damn one of them. Could some more have been called the other way? Of course there could have been, but it is not like the Hawks would have scored any goals on the resulting PP's anyhow.

 

[DMelt36]

Just another pathetic showing by the Hawks.

Two games in a row you see cheap work ethic from everybody and lazy play on both ends of the ice.

Wings aren't that good, but you wouldn't know it by how Babcock is out coaching Q here.


Ham

These numbers thoroughly disagree with you.

http://timeonice.com/shots1213.php?gamenumber=30233

 

[KBIB]

These numbers thoroughly disagree with you.

http://timeonice.com/shots1213.php?gamenumber=30233

Corsi is kind of a flawed advance stat. I take it with a grain of salt.

It sure doesn't keep a stat of how the Hawks have basically slept walked thru two games, with the only person who showed up tonight being the guy who was benched the first two games.

Shaw is killing this team with dump penalties and he is lucky the Hawks PK is on an elite level. Sharp has pretty much played the perimeter refusing to rush the net and taking low percentage shots that have been easily stopped. Toews has yet to play beyond Zetterberg bullying him and has pretty much resigned to the fact that he is playing ***** to him. Hossa has looked slow, Kane is only giving about three or four shifts the last two games. Corsi doesn't identify that and no offense, I don't give the Wings any credit what so ever outside of Bab's being an expert coach. This is a mediocre team who is pretty much dominating the best team in the NHL. Its sad.




Ham

 

[KBIB]

Don't know what to do about Shaw. Officials are just waiting for him to do something stupid, and he eventually obliges. I think on the phantom disallowed goal, if anyone other than Shaw had been near the goalie, the goal would have counted. But when the ref saw it was Shaw, he immediately disallowed it.

That wasn't a goal even if it was somebody else who was draped all over Howard. Shaw has his hand on his shoulder, he should have known he put himself in such a bad position or that the defenseman was gonna do everything in his power to push him into Howard. Shaws hockey IQ shows up in both playoffs he has been a part of, its very small. Smith last year now every single shift he has the refs looking for him when he jumps over the boards. He did this to himself and is this close to being a liability out there.

Howard has played well for Detroit. Crawford was very good in Game 1, but just average in 2 & 3.

Goaltending hasn't been a problem. Crawford has let in a couple of softies, but the team in front of him hasn't shown up.

Aside from the penalty at the end, I think Bickell is trying to answer Detroit's physical play.

Nah, they are goading him into taking penalties and he is obliging. The Wings are doing the exact same thing they did the year before the Hawks Cup run. Both times the Hawks were the superior team and both times the Wings are getting them off their game and forcing them to play the game they want them to play. A soft,puck control team now suddenly wants to bang? Yeah, Babcocks hands are now puppeteering the Hawks. And the voice of the locker room, Toews, has been mugged for three games straight by the smarter player who knows how to get inside his head. The key to this series was Toews, and effort on the ice wasn't ever questioned, its his mentality. Zetterberg is controlling him and its sad to watch.

Toews is obviously spooked by Zetterberg and has been very ineffective. I disagree that Hossa "looks slow"...I think he is possibly the only player who looks to dominate when he gets the puck. He and Stalberg are the only two IMO who look like they have initiative when they get the puck. Everyone else is waiting for a teammate to do something.

Imo, Hossa's looked slow. He had two good shifts yesterday other then that he hasn't been able to keep up. The Wings took a cerebral approach to this series and the fact remains Babcock is completely out coaching Q in every facet outside of PK, which the Hawks have a decent system in place. Either Q changes up the lines and places a skill player on every one and uses his skill depth to his advantage the Hawks wont win another game. This idea of loading up one line is foolish when the Wings have one line that can stop them. They need to balance out all four.

Were Datsyuk and Zetterberg nicked up during the regular season? They've looked really good in the postseason.

Zetterberg is injured every year. Dats has been solid.



Ham

 

[DMelt36]

Corsi is kind of a flawed advance stat. I take it with a grain of salt.

It sure doesn't keep a stat of how the Hawks have basically slept walked thru two games, with the only person who showed up tonight being the guy who was benched the first two games.

Shaw is killing this team with dump penalties and he is lucky the Hawks PK is on an elite level. Sharp has pretty much played the perimeter refusing to rush the net and taking low percentage shots that have been easily stopped. Toews has yet to play beyond Zetterberg bullying him and has pretty much resigned to the fact that he is playing ***** to him. Hossa has looked slow, Kane is only giving about three or four shifts the last two games. Corsi doesn't identify that and no offense, I don't give the Wings any credit what so ever outside of Bab's being an expert coach. This is a mediocre team who is pretty much dominating the best team in the NHL. Its sad.

Slept walk? That's hilarious.

Never mind that the Hawks had more shots and chances than Detroit all night or, for about a 5-minute stretch early in the second, didn't even let the puck outside of Detroit's blue line. Yeah, slept walk.

Detroit capitalized on the few chances they had. I thought the Hawks played damn well through the first and the early second, but two big Chicago mistakes led to two quick Detroit goals and turned the momentum. That 3rd period no-goal would've been nice, for sure, but the calls for a penalty on Hjalmarsson before Kane's goal are not without merit, too.

As Rory said, Howard was better than Crawford in this game, and he had to be. It's also not all that surprising, because Howard has that kind of ability.

Still have plenty of faith in the Hawks, because I still have plenty of faith in the Wings defense to start playing like the trash heap they actually are. I'm still planning on watching these guys well into June.

 

[KBIB]

Slept walk? That's hilarious.

Never mind that the Hawks had more shots and chances than Detroit all night or, for about a 5-minute stretch early in the second, didn't even let the puck outside of Detroit's blue line. Yeah, slept walk.

Yeah, slept walk. They were bullied out of the slot almost the entire game or in Shaws case, pushed into the goalie when they were effective near the paint. Taking low percentage shots isn't gonna get the job done. Shots, chances, just useless stats that are used to amplify what little the Hawks did to make it seem like they actually put in some sort of effort. I watched the game. There wasn't a single moment last night where I said the Hawks look dominant outside of a couple minutes in the second and even then, they didn't score. So while anybody can point to how many shots they attempted and be content with that, I will point out how many goals they scored compared to the Wings and trump any other statistic the Hawks might have had an advantage at.

Detroit capitalized on the few chances they had. I thought the Hawks played damn well through the first and the early second, but two big Chicago mistakes led to two quick Detroit goals and turned the momentum. That 3rd period no-goal would've been nice, for sure, but the calls for a penalty on Hjalmarsson before Kane's goal are not without merit, too.

Momentum is just a word. Its like "Bear weather" and a useless expression. The Hawks played horrible and were horribly out coached for the second game in a row. Q has to be the luckiest coach in the playoffs right now considering the amount of talent he has and the fact with so much skill he can wing it on most nights but in the playoffs he needs to prove he can coach. It isn't coincidence the only time he won a Cup while as a HC is while manning one of the most ridiculously stacked teams since the lock out, and has failed every other time.

As Rory said, Howard was better than Crawford in this game, and he had to be. It's also not all that surprising, because Howard has that kind of ability.

Howard has been the best player in this series. True.

Still have plenty of faith in the Hawks, because I still have plenty of faith in the Wings defense to start playing like the trash heap they actually are. I'm still planning on watching these guys well into June.

I have no faith in Q. He makes stupid decisions and hasn't adapted to anything Babcock has thrown at him yet. He rewards mediocre play yet it hasn't hit him yet that Bab's isn't gonna change until Q figures out the Hawks two top lines are neutralized by the Wings top two and if he would take advantage of his skill depth the Wings don't have the personnel to combat it.


Ham

 

[DMelt36]

Yeah, slept walk. They were bullied out of the slot almost the entire game or in Shaws case, pushed into the goalie when they were effective near the paint. Taking low percentage shots isn't gonna get the job done. Shots, chances, just useless stats that are used to amplify what little the Hawks did to make it seem like they actually put in some sort of effort. I watched the game. There wasn't a single moment last night where I said the Hawks look dominant outside of a couple minutes in the second and even then, they didn't score. So while anybody can point to how many shots they attempted and be content with that, I will point out how many goals they scored compared to the Wings and trump any other statistic the Hawks might have had an advantage at.

Shot chart at the bottom of this page

About half of the Hawks' 40 shots last night came from an area underneath and inside the faceoff dots. I'd say you've got, at least, a double digit shot count from an area within 10 feet of the goal.

As I said before, the Hawks just did not capitalize. But the chances were there.

Momentum is just a word. Its like "Bear weather" and a useless expression. The Hawks played horrible and were horribly out coached for the second game in a row. Q has to be the luckiest coach in the playoffs right now considering the amount of talent he has and the fact with so much skill he can wing it on most nights but in the playoffs he needs to prove he can coach. It isn't coincidence the only time he won a Cup while as a HC is while manning one of the most ridiculously stacked teams since the lock out, and has failed every other time.

I have no faith in Q. He makes stupid decisions and hasn't adapted to anything Babcock has thrown at him yet. He rewards mediocre play yet it hasn't hit him yet that Bab's isn't gonna change until Q figures out the Hawks two top lines are neutralized by the Wings top two and if he would take advantage of his skill depth the Wings don't have the personnel to combat it.

Having no faith in Q, fine. I'm not gonna call him the greatest coach of all-time, and Babcock is damn, damn good at what he does, and his players are incredibly disciplined in his gameplan.

But this idea you have that the Hawks were somehow not a threat at all during this game is something I just don't see. Aside from the goal they scored, they had another revoked on a questionable call, and they hit the post three other times. Toews had 7 shots alone, at least 3 of which, on that chart, came from the slot.

Again, the chances are there. Just finish them, and Game 5 at the UC is with the series tied at 2.

 

[DMelt36]

One of the nice things about having the load of talent that the Hawks do is that Q can be outcoached in every fucking game and the Hawks can still win.

 

[Sunbiz1]

I am sure the meatballs will come out and make excuses. oh the penalties and stuufffz. in a nutshell babcock is out coaching Q. series isnt over but it doesnt look promising.

To which I would reply:

Hawks were down 2-1 to Nashville 3 years ago...then won the cup.

 

[Diehardfan]

Shot chart at the bottom of this page

About half of the Hawks' 40 shots last night came from an area underneath and inside the faceoff dots. I'd say you've got, at least, a double digit shot count from an area within 10 feet of the goal.

As I said before, the Hawks just did not capitalize. But the chances were there.



Having no faith in Q, fine. I'm not gonna call him the greatest coach of all-time, and Babcock is damn, damn good at what he does, and his players are incredibly disciplined in his gameplan.

But this idea you have that the Hawks were somehow not a threat at all during this game is something I just don't see. Aside from the goal they scored, they had another revoked on a questionable call, and they hit the post three other times. Toews had 7 shots alone, at least 3 of which, on that chart, came from the slot.

Again, the chances are there. Just finish them, and Game 5 at the UC is with the series tied at 2.

With all this coach shit, I thought I was on the Cub forum with the annual cry of "fire the manager". You don't have to be a genius to be a coach in the NHL. The best coaches are the ones with the smartest players, players who execute the gameplan given them. They dont even have to be the best players just good players who will follow orders. Other than possibly Pittsburgh, the Hawks probably have the most talented roster but that doesnt always mean they're the best team. Just the most talented one. Is Babcock some kind of hockey genius? Not really, but he does more with less because his players are smart, dicsciplined and stick to his gameplan.

We've seen this same crap over and over for years in Chicago. Football players always jumping offside, constant late hits,outfielders that don't hit the cutoff man, pitchers cant lay down a bunt....all stuff that falls under game fundamentals and coaches and managers are blamed for not teaching them. Thats bullshit, they all are stressed but the players dont execute what they were taught.

No coach has ever won a Stanley Cup, World Series or a Super Bowl. Its the players....and it will always be the players.



"I'm not looking for the best players, Craig. I'm looking for the right ones." Herb Brooks

 

[KBIB]

Shot chart at the bottom of this page

About half of the Hawks' 40 shots last night came from an area underneath and inside the faceoff dots. I'd say you've got, at least, a double digit shot count from an area within 10 feet of the goal.

As I said before, the Hawks just did not capitalize. But the chances were there.

No, the chances wernt there. Your whole debate is trying to point out the shot accumulation the Hawks made yet fail to comprehend the Hawks took low percentage shots, mostly with defenseman in front of Howard. 40 shots means nothing if either Howard can see it, or the defenseman can scoop up the rebound, and even then Howard stopped and covered most of the night. Toews also got three of those 7 shots on one of his telegraphed wrap around attempts he always seems to do every single game. I counted maybe four decent scoring chances last night and every single time the defense of the Wings balled them out. With a team with as much high end skill as the Hawks that's unacceptable.

Having no faith in Q, fine. I'm not gonna call him the greatest coach of all-time, and Babcock is damn, damn good at what he does, and his players are incredibly disciplined in his gameplan.

Q hasn't given me any reason to have faith in him. He has never beaten Bab's in a playoff series and is showing, yet again, he is out numbered in the brain department one to none when they go head to head. Bab's right now is coaching the Hawks. He's telling them to be emo and try and out hit his Wings when that's not the game the Hawks play and is doing a rather impressive job working two benches while Q stands there with Tampon wondering why the Hawks PP is a complete joke.

But this idea you have that the Hawks were somehow not a threat at all during this game is something I just don't see. Aside from the goal they scored, they had another revoked on a questionable call, and they hit the post three other times. Toews had 7 shots alone, at least 3 of which, on that chart, came from the slot.

There was nothing questionable about the Shaw call. He was draped all over Howard. That gets called 10 times out of 10.

Again, the chances are there. Just finish them, and Game 5 at the UC is with the series tied at 2.

Well, somebody better tell Q to have a team meeting and smarten them up a bit if that's gonna happen. Because right now the Hawks are on the ropes and don't look like the team that started the year head and shoulders that much better then everybody else.



Ham

 

[KBIB]

One of the nice things about having the load of talent that the Hawks do is that Q can be outcoached in every fucking game and the Hawks can still win.

Sure, when playing a bottom feeder. In the playoffs, not so much.


Ham

 

[DMelt36]

With all this coach shit, I thought I was on the Cub forum with the annual cry of "fire the manager". You don't have to be a genius to be a coach in the NHL. The best coaches are the ones with the smartest players, players who execute the gameplan given them. They dont even have to be the best players just good players who will follow orders. Other than possibly Pittsburgh, the Hawks probably have the most talented roster but that doesnt always mean they're the best team. Just the most talented one. Is Babcock some kind of hockey genius? Not really, but he does more with less because his players are smart, dicsciplined and stick to his gameplan.

We've seen this same crap over and over for years in Chicago. Football players always jumping offside, constant late hits,outfielders that don't hit the cutoff man, pitchers cant lay down a bunt....all stuff that falls under game fundamentals and coaches and managers are blamed for not teaching them. Thats bullshit, they all are stressed but the players dont execute what they were taught.

No coach has ever won a Stanley Cup, World Series or a Super Bowl. Its the players....and it will always be the players.

"I'm not looking for the best players, Craig. I'm looking for the right ones." Herb Brooks

Said much better than I could've.

Coaching is great and all, but it does have its limits. You can only tell a player so many things and put him in the right positions. Ultimately, he has to perform.

But there has to be a scapegoat, for some reason. Not saying Q is innocent (or guilty, for that matter), but it's always easier to blame one than it is to blame 18. That's why you'll hear calls for Q's head should the Hawks lose this series.

It's not like Babcock is inventing some brand new style of play. He's got his team clogging up the neutral zone to keep the Hawks from gaining speed on the rush and he's got them taking away any time and space when the Hawks are in the offensive zone. He is not the first coach to do this, and he won't be the last. But his players are also executing the hell out of that gameplan. They also haven't made some of the crucial turnovers that the Hawks have.

 

[Beyer Fan]

With all this coach shit, I thought I was on the Cub forum with the annual cry of "fire the manager". You don't have to be a genius to be a coach in the NHL. The best coaches are the ones with the smartest players, players who execute the gameplan given them. They dont even have to be the best players just good players who will follow orders. Other than possibly Pittsburgh, the Hawks probably have the most talented roster but that doesnt always mean they're the best team. Just the most talented one. Is Babcock some kind of hockey genius? Not really, but he does more with less because his players are smart, dicsciplined and stick to his gameplan.

We've seen this same crap over and over for years in Chicago. Football players always jumping offside, constant late hits,outfielders that don't hit the cutoff man, pitchers cant lay down a bunt....all stuff that falls under game fundamentals and coaches and managers are blamed for not teaching them. Thats bullshit, they all are stressed but the players dont execute what they were taught.

No coach has ever won a Stanley Cup, World Series or a Super Bowl. Its the players....and it will always be the players.



"I'm not looking for the best players, Craig. I'm looking for the right ones." Herb Brooks

Totally agree

 

[DewsSox79]

One of the nice things about having the load of talent that the Hawks do is that Q can be outcoached in every fucking game and the Hawks can still win.

that didnt happen in game 2 or game 3.

 

[DMelt36]

that didnt happen in game 2 or game 3.

No shit.