Gas Prices

[Larmer83]

I always chuckle when others feel they have to tear others down to build themselves up.



Nobody said it was THE issue but it is an issue in the greater scheme.



http://cnsnews.com/n...finery-colombia

Moreover, since 1985, when refinery capacity hit a low of 14.7 million barrels per day, we've seen over three million barrels of capacity added, or the equivalent to 23 average modern day facilities. A stark contrast to the misleading tidbit about having no new refineries built since the 1970's. So while we haven't seen new refineries open in new locations, we have virtually added the capacity of 23 of today's average size facilities—and that is nothing to scoff at.



http://www.usnews.co...acity-has-grown

So you are saying that if the POTUS and Congress wanted to move ahead with bringing more refineries online that they are powerless to do so?



One of the greatest ideas I had heard that has never been acted upon was building refineries on closed military installations.

So your proposal is to build refineries on closed military installations when oil companies are splitting/closing/selling refineries? But you post an article that states "we have virtually added the capacity of 23 of today's average size facilities—and that is nothing to scoff at".



How does that make any sense?(Edit: It does if you are a socialist)



I always chuckle when people that know so little, feel they have to show it to prove me right.

 

[IceHogsFan]

I always chuckle when people that know so little, feel they have to show it to prove me right.

 

[Larmer83]

Is that your agument to show that refining capacity is an issue? You can do better than that. Actually you can't.



Edit: The observant will note I paraphrased your quote that you quoted me.

 

[BigPete]

our president at the time said he was going to flood the market with supply. Even though OPEC cut production by 2.2million barrels/day at the end of 2008 it wasn't enough to keep the speculators from fearing huge losses.

This is the only practical way that the POTUS can screw with the pricing. I say practical as in 'application', not as in 'a good idea'. This is not the answer, it is a short term fix, a gimmick.

The real answer is to place more restrictions on trading the futures in the commodities market. This may not even be possible given the global nature of that market. The end all solution is for the US government to buy the light sweet crude, then allow independent manufacturers to buy it, refine it, and sell it at open market prices that are closely regulated to stave off price gouging and unreasonable market prices at the pump.



But that would be very close to socialism or communism. Control raw natural resources to control the market prices of finished product by selecting who gets to produce and sell what goods.

 

[TSD]

This is the only practical way that the POTUS can screw with the pricing. I say practical as in 'application', not as in 'a good idea'. This is not the answer, it is a short term fix, a gimmick.

The real answer is to place more restrictions on trading the futures in the commodities market. This may not even be possible given the global nature of that market. The end all solution is for the US government to buy the light sweet crude, then allow independent manufacturers to buy it, refine it, and sell it at open market prices that are closely regulated to stave off price gouging and unreasonable market prices at the pump.



But that would be very close to socialism or communism. Control raw natural resources to control the market prices of finished product by selecting who gets to produce and sell what goods.

Depending n what the product is, I don't really have a problem with that. When it comes to necessities, the consumer needs to be protected. I mean whats going on now is basically profiteering.

 

[BigPete]

Depending n what the product is, I don't really have a problem with that. When it comes to necessities, the consumer needs to be protected. I mean whats going on now is basically profiteering.

Don't forget about the subsidies helping Big Oil make great money too. The whole thing is fucked up, but I think someone said that already.

 

[Larmer83]

It was "printed" about 3 weeks ago, but still a good read.

http://www.economist.com/node/21549949



Americans are driving less, and they are buying more fuel-efficient cars. Net oil imports are well below their 2005 peak, which means more of the money Americans spend on costlier oil stays within its borders. The development of copious amounts of natural gas means gas prices have plunged. That, coupled with an unusually mild winter, has kept bills for home heating unusually low. In January the share of consumers’ spending on energy products was the second-lowest in 50 years. These factors do not imply that America is impervious to spiking oil, but they do suggest the impact of price rises to date will be modest.



Edit: The Economist is a regular advertiser on IHN. Look at the top of the screen, chances are that an ad for The Economist will appear on IHN.

 

[winos5]

Solar energy is the answer. Shine baby shine.....

 

[Larmer83]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/05/business/deltas-puzzling-interest-in-buying-an-oil-refinery.html?_r=1&partner=yahoofinance



Running an airline is a tough business. But running an oil refinery can be even more punishing.



So refining experts were puzzled this week when Delta Air Lines emerged as a possible buyer of a refinery near Philadelphia that ConocoPhillips is trying to sell.

.

.

.

So far, these closings have not much affected gasoline prices, since supplies were readily available elsewhere. That could change if Sunoco goes ahead with its plans to close another refinery near Philadelphia by July if it can’t find a buyer for that operation as well, according to a recent report by the United States Energy Information Administration.

These refineries have suffered because the type of crude oil they process — light, sweet crude from the Atlantic — happens to be the most expensive. In recent months, the price for its benchmark, Brent crude, has soared well above other grades of oil that are refined in other parts of the country. Even as crude oil prices soared, and gasoline demand dropped, refiners have faced a glut of gasoline-refining capacity around the world.

 

[winos5]

Stark reality for hybrids or electric vehicles. Not much savings there for the majority of them.



http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/blog/2012/04/savings-come-slowly-for-hybrid.html



http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/04/04/business/the-cost-of-higher-fuel-economy.html?ref=energy-environment

 

[jaxhawksfan]

Stark reality for hybrids or electric vehicles. Not much savings there for the majority of them.



http://www.bizjourna...for-hybrid.html



http://www.nytimes.c...rgy-environment

But you are saving the environment and the world!

 

[R K]

Only in California!

 

[Rex]

Only in California!

because electricity isn't made out of coal!

 

[Tater]

because electricity isn't made out of coal!

And the batteries don't contain chemicals that are harmful when disposed of.

 

[Rex]

And the batteries don't contain chemicals that are harmful when disposed of.

we have now used Sarcasm to the power of 4. I don't even know what we are saying anymore.

 

[jaxhawksfan]

I think most of us are saying it is all bullshit.

 

[Rex]

I think most of us are saying it is all bullshit.

well, I know that's what I was saying lol

 

[IceHogsFan]

I think most of us are saying it is all bullshit.

And the part that nobody gets is where are we headed? They ***** and moan of where we are with prices but then just throw their hands up in defeat and take it rather then asking the serious questions. Questions like, what is our national energy plan? What are we doing to address issues today? Where does the government see us in a year, three years, ten years? I get railed for my dislike of Obama but it is reasons such as his position on green energy that I distrust him. It's a damn the torpedo's philosphy with no back up plan at least from I have seen. Does anyone really think with his green energy platform that he cares about the cost today or even the next four years?



And anyone who does not think the federal government does not get involved in cost is ignorant. All you have to do is look at fuel mixes, EPA issues, federal gas taxes, etc. to see they are also a direct component in the cost per gallon we pay. And there is a monumental difference between the government regulating and the government running a commodity.

 

[Rex]

And the part that nobody gets is where are we headed? They ***** and moan of where we are with prices but then just throw their hands up in defeat and take it rather then asking the serious questions. Questions like, what is our national energy plan? What are we doing to address issues today? Where does the government see us in a year, three years, ten years? I get railed for my dislike of Obama but it is reasons such as his position on green energy that I distrust him. It's a damn the torpedo's philosphy with no back up plan at least from I have seen. Does anyone really think with his green energy platform that he cares about the cost today or even the next four years?



And anyone who does not think the federal government does not get involved in cost is ignorant. All you have to do is look at fuel mixes, EPA issues, federal gas taxes, etc. to see they are also a direct component in the cost per gallon we pay. And there is a monumental difference between the government regulating and the government running a commodity.

Same shit going on up here in Ontario. Our Premier has invested hundreds of millions of tax payer dollars into his "green initiative" which is just windmills. Shitloads of windmills anywhere that isn't downtown Toronto (the only place that he gets votes.) These windmills have done nothing but been an eyesore, and have caused the cost of electricity to go up about 7x.



But the way the media spins it, if you hate the windmills, you hate the environment, and you are a no good "Neo Con" who should move to America, since there is no room for Conservatives in Canada.

 

[TSD]

And the part that nobody gets is where are we headed? They ***** and moan of where we are with prices but then just throw their hands up in defeat and take it rather then asking the serious questions. Questions like, what is our national energy plan? What are we doing to address issues today? Where does the government see us in a year, three years, ten years? I get railed for my dislike of Obama but it is reasons such as his position on green energy that I distrust him. It's a damn the torpedo's philosphy with no back up plan at least from I have seen. Does anyone really think with his green energy platform that he cares about the cost today or even the next four years?



And anyone who does not think the federal government does not get involved in cost is ignorant. All you have to do is look at fuel mixes, EPA issues, federal gas taxes, etc. to see they are also a direct component in the cost per gallon we pay. And there is a monumental difference between the government regulating and the government running a commodity.

Pretty much, because nothing is ever going to get done on anything because there is too much conflicted interest invested in the politicians. Why bother with it, we can ***** and complain all we want, nothings going to happen. What did Occupy Wallstreet accomplish? It provided a bunch of hippies with an "I got pepper sprayed" story. That's about it.