Gay Marriage Ruling in Federal Court

bri

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[quote name="Mikita's Helmet"]



Are you saying that I don't really seem nice? ;)



RE Lawyers: I didn't like a lot of the people I went to law school with and took two years off after I finished law school - sold books and movies at Borders :lol: - before practicing law.[/quote]





I didn't realize there were so many lawyers on here. If I ever do anything naughty, I'll know who to call.
 

mikita's helmet

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[quote name="bri"]





I didn't realize there were so many lawyers on here. If I ever do anything naughty, I'll know who to call.[/quote]



Naughty is my specialty. :drool:
 

BlackHawkPaul

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[quote name="jakobeast"]I am still waiting for an intelligent argument that doesn't involve religion against gay marriage.[/quote]

Keep waiting.

The bolded presents an oxymoron.





I have a friend that lives in Boys Town that had an interesting topic for a documentary:

Gays and religion. More or less-- gays that start up their own churches, or gays that have very close spiritual connections to god.

I have many questions to ask.
 

TSD

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[quote name="BlackhawkPaul"]

Keep waiting.

The bolded presents an oxymoron.





I have a friend that lives in Boys Town that had an interesting topic for a documentary:

Gays and religion. More or less-- gays that start up their own churches, or gays that have very close spiritual connections to god.

I have many questions to ask.[/quote]



I suppose that depends on the religion. The greeks and romans had no problem with homosexuality. Caesar was known as the Queen of Bithnia because of his sexual relationship with the King of Bithnia (the insult wasnt because he had sex with men, but because Caesar preffered to take the submissive role.) So I suppose their religions had no problem with woman on woman man on man action.



As for christianity. Technically on Jesus Arrival the old testament should have been abolished (so why it is still included in the bible I dont know). I dont recall any references to homosexuality in the new testament (correct me if I am wrong). So technically if the old covenant with God is history and only the new covenant applies there is nothing in christianity that says its wrong to be gay.
 

Chief Walking Stick

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[quote name="BlackhawkPaul"]

Keep waiting.

The bolded presents an oxymoron.





I have a friend that lives in Boys Town that had an interesting topic for a documentary:

Gays and religion. More or less-- gays that start up their own churches, or gays that have very close spiritual connections to god.

I have many questions to ask.[/quote]



I don't think in the Bible it says that Gays can't go to Heaven... but that's what a lot of Christians think. I happen to be non-denominational Christian but I am by no means a "Bible Toater Gon' Throw My Views On You And Tell You You're Wrong", but I know my stuff in regards to Christianity.



In the Bible it says that all sins can be forgiven so that being said... a murderer who is truly sorry and remorseful for their crimes and accepts Jesus as their savior can go to Heaven, but someone who is gay cannot?



I always want to slap people who go the route of ALL GAYS ARE GOIN TA HELL!!!!
 

BlackHawkPaul

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[quote name="TSD"]



I suppose that depends on the religion. The greeks and romans had no problem with homosexuality. Caesar was known as the Queen of Bithnia because of his sexual relationship with the King of Bithnia (the insult wasnt because he had sex with men, but because Caesar preffered to take the submissive role.) So I suppose their religions had no problem with woman on woman man on man action.



As for christianity. Technically on Jesus Arrival the old testament should have been abolished (so why it is still included in the bible I dont know). I dont recall any references to homosexuality in the new testament (correct me if I am wrong). So technically if the old covenant with God is history and only the new covenant applies there is nothing in christianity that says its wrong to be gay.[/quote]



This point poses an argument.

Well, many arguments.

:)



The reason for it not being abolished is the existence of the Judeo–Christian rhetoric.

Simply put-- people borrowing form parts of the bible to suit their belief systems.
 

mikita's helmet

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In the order staying the District court order, the Ninth circuit concluded their order by stating:



"In addition to any issues appellants wish to raise on appeal, appellants are directed to include in their opening brief a discussion of why this appeal should not be dismissed for lack of Article III standing. See Arizonans For Official English v. Arizona, 520 U.S. 43, 66 (1997)." (emphasis added)



The article below further discusses why the Court of Appeals may not even get to the merits of the appeal when it reaches its decision.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

California gay marriage case hangs on technicality



(Reuters) - The next stage of California's gay marriage court battle rests on a procedural issue that could halt the case, leaving same-sex unions legal in California without a Supreme Court ruling to guide the nation.



A San Francisco federal judge struck down the California same-sex marriage ban known as Proposition 8 earlier this month, and the case was immediately appealed to the federal Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.



On Monday, those appellate judges set a hearing for December and put gay marriages on hold pending appeal. They made only one comment relating to legal issues, asking the pro Prop 8 team to say why the case should not be dismissed due to lack of standing -- a term for the right to appeal.



Strictly speaking, the California state government would be the proper body to represent the pro-Prop 8 case, but neither the governor nor the attorney general is willing to pursue it. The defense of the ban was so far made by an independent group that must prove its right to appeal.



The appeals court will make its decision on standing as the first step in its ruling on the case after the December hearing. If it decides that the Prop 8 proponents don't have standing, the judges won't even look at the main argument, following standard judicial policy of making rulings as narrow as possible.



Proposition 8 passed in November 2008, unleashing a nationwide furor as liberals wondered how the trend-setting state could fall in line with the roughly 40 others that ban same-sex unions and social conservatives boasted their cause truly had national backing.



That sparked the federal court case, with a very unusual twist -- the state defendants, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, a Republican, and Attorney General Jerry Brown, a Democrat, did not defend the ban and will not appeal the pro-gay-marriage decision.



Federal District Court Chief Judge Vaughn Walker has questioned whether the group which defended the ban can appeal on its own.



"As it appears at least doubtful that (Prop 8) proponents will be able to proceed with their appeal without a state defendant, it remains unclear whether the court of appeals will be able to reach the merits of proponents' appeal," he wrote.




University of California, Berkeley, law professor Jesse Choper said the appeals court seemed to see standing as a "genuine issue." Legal analysts are uncertain how the court might rule.



Prop 8 supporters say they have the right to appeal since California's leaders will not, and that the institution of marriage will be harmed by allowing same-sex unions.



http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE67G4Y820100817
 

mikita

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[quote name="TSD"]

As for christianity. Technically on Jesus Arrival the old testament should have been abolished (so why it is still included in the bible I dont know). [/quote]



That is a matter of much debate. Old Testament law is referenced many times in the New Testament. Jesus even proclaims in Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets;I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them". On the other hand, some of Jesus' words do seem to contradict the Old Testament. As with secular law, it's all in the interpretation of the reader.





I dont recall any references to homosexuality in the new testament (correct me if I am wrong)



Well, actually there are. Romans 1:26-27 "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."
 

mikita

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[quote name="Stu Grimson"]

In the Bible it says that all sins can be forgiven so that being said... a murderer who is truly sorry and remorseful for their crimes and accepts Jesus as their savior can go to Heaven, but someone who is gay cannot?

[/quote]



They absolutely can be forgiven and saved!
 

BlackHawkPaul

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[quote name="mikita"]



They absolutely can be forgiven and saved![/quote]

Saved from what?

The sin of homosexuality?
 

genefoley

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Wow, what a joke. Let them get married. What a waste of time, energy and money. Who are they offending? Someone please tell me.



Also, not to derail this thread or make this a god existing or non-existing, but, how can god create you in his own likeness and damn the homosexuals to hell for eternity for liking the same sex when god is the one who made them like that? Something doesn't add up.
 

BlackHawkPaul

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[quote name="genefoley"]Wow, what a joke. Let them get married. What a waste of time, energy and money. Who are they offending? Someone please tell me.



Also, not to derail this thread or make this a god existing or non-existing, but, how can god create you in his own likeness and damn the homosexuals to hell for eternity for liking the same sex when god is the one who made them like that? Something doesn't add up.[/quote]

Those people say that being gay is a choice (the free will argument from Genesis). Therefore, a sin. Funny... how many straight people choose to be straight?



Now, to the offending question. They are offending religious people that are scared of something that they have no comprehension of. Many religious people vote. That will suede politicians to use that issue as a political platform. Hello votes!
 

mikita

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[quote name="BlackhawkPaul"]

Saved from what?

[/quote]



Saved as in salvation.
 

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[quote name="mikita"]



Saved as in salvation.[/quote]



The legality of gay marriage is NOT a religious discussion.
 

mikita

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[quote name="puckjim"]

The legality of gay marriage is NOT a religious discussion.[/quote]



The comment was in response to a previous post that was religious in nature. I have long said that gay marriage will ultimately be legalized under the 14th amendment. I think this is a battle that cannot be won. However, I do enjoy seeing the democrats on the losing end in the battle of public opinion during an election year.
 

TSD

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[quote name="BlackhawkPaul"]

Those people say that being gay is a choice (the free will argument from Genesis). Therefore, a sin. Funny... how many straight people choose to be straight?



Now, to the offending question. They are offending religious people that are scared of something that they have no comprehension of. Many religious people vote. That will suede politicians to use that issue as a political platform. Hello votes![/quote]





More hilarity ensues when the most outspoken proponents of homo hate always seem to get caught filandering with members of the same sex.





If anyone honestly thinks being gay is a choice/temptation, then.....drum roll please.....your fuckin gay, whereas strait people have no temptation to have gay sex.



Its as simple as that. You would swear by what the bible says everyone must want to fuck members of the same sex a hell of alot more than the opposite and its a tempation we all must over come lest we be smited. I reckon the bible was written by a bunch of closeted homosexuals that didnt understand what they were and assumed everybody had the same wants and desires as them.
 

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