Giants/Cubs talking trade?

[DewsSox79]

the season is over we aren't going anywhere we can replace him in FA he honestly is very overrated IMO. But again im old fashion i don't even know what WAR is im not into advanced baseball stats lol advance basketball is the only advanced stats i really follow.

Wins above replacement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is a guess of how many WINS a player is worth over a replacement player. it is by far the most subjective stat and should NOT be used alone to evaluate a player, let alone some of the people here stating it in their all star debates. This cubbies4ever is still not a STAT, again, because it is not known to be true.

 

[Rick]

Not sure what to think about trading Soto. I don't care for him much but when he plays well, he's nice to have on the team. I'm just sick and tired of his off and on years.

 

[poodski]

I want to hear about these catchers we can get to replace him with so easily though.

 

[nwfisch]

Castillo.

 

[dabynsky]

Castillo gives you none of the power or patiencethat Soto does. I think if your disapointed with the production of Soto your going to be pretty unhappy with Castillo who is only four years younger.

 

[Rice Cube]

If we were closer to contention I'd say keep Soto. As it is, Soto is more valuable to us as a trade chip rather than as another Latino whipping boy for the media :lol:

 

[nwfisch]

Only 4 years younger Guess the Cubs should trade him to Florida. :tiptoe: I agree with Rice 100% on this one. He's said everything I wanted to say.

 

[dabynsky]

I guess I don't see the point in trading him now. He is having a meh year which lowers his value. We control him for the next two years' so why not keep him and hope he performs like he has in even years so far in his career. I don't see why there is a pressing need to deal Soto now unless the Giants want to over0ay because of their need. If Soto rebounds then his value goes way up and maybe teh

 

[poodski]

I guess I don't see the point in trading him now. He is having a meh year which lowers his value. We control him for the next two years' so why not keep him and hope he performs like he has in even years so far in his career. I don't see why there is a pressing need to deal Soto now unless the Giants want to over0ay because of their need. If Soto rebounds then his value goes way up and maybe teh

Bingo Aka sell high not low.

Trading a player when his value is lowest isnt very smart.

 

[X]

it won't be soto anyway. they've got a catcher...he's just injured. Why would they give up prospects for a catcher they could control for several years, but have no need to?

 

[DewsSox79]

I want to hear about these catchers we can get to replace him with so easily though.

which doesnt translate into getting a ton of specs for soto. if that is your logic so be it, but just a heads up....your not getting top specs for soto.

 

[Rick]

There's more to replacing a catcher than another position player. Catchers have to get along with the pitchers and call good games. I've always thought Soto calls a pretty good game. Pitchers hated working with Michael Barrett when he was here so, in my mind, it's more difficult to replace a catcher because its a pretty important position defensively. Also like I said before, Soto is nice to have when he's playing well. His inconsistency is just maddening though.

 

[Rice Cube]

X-Factor is probably correct that the Giants won't blow a bunch of prospects to acquire Soto when Posey will likely be back the next season at catcher, but elite hitting catchers don't always stay at that position...eventually they will move to 1B or even the outfield to protect them from injury. That doesn't mean the Giants will do that, because Posey is so young, but it's good to keep an open mind...which I doubt Brian Sabean has :lol:

Soto has already turned 28 and has been injured and inconsistent. He is likely to bounce back to 2008/2010 levels, and if you gave him to a smart GM who understands that he has plate discipline and power and is also a decent defensive catcher, then you're likely to get something back. His age, injury and inconsistency preclude the possibility of retrieving the uber-hawt prospects in trade, but that doesn't mean you'll get shit in return either.

Think about it...Soto has two years of arbitration left, that is HUGE in determining trade value. Just because he's slumping now doesn't mean that you can't get something back, particularly if the team attempting to acquire him is desperate for some offense (i.e. the Giants or maybe one of the AL West teams). There's little point in retaining an (bears repeating) aging, potentially-declining, injury-prone, inconsistent catcher and hoping he turns into a superstar next season on the off-chance that you can contend. The alternative is to have a legitimate chance to restock the farm system. Considering that there is little point in marginal wins when only the top two teams in the division can even get to the playoffs, what would you rather do...hope that the Cubs play out of their skulls with the same basic core that has sucked this season, or trade the valuable pieces for new guys who will probably suck just as much at first, but will at least have some potential going forward to make the 2015 Cubs contenders?

:cubs:

 

[Rice Cube]

There's more to replacing a catcher than another position player. Catchers have to get along with the pitchers and call good games. I've always thought Soto calls a pretty good game. Pitchers hated working with Michael Barrett when he was here so, in my mind, it's more difficult to replace a catcher because its a pretty important position defensively. Also like I said before, Soto is nice to have when he's playing well. His inconsistency is just maddening though.

If they want a catcher they like, just keep Koyie Hill because he's cheap and will help the Cubs earn high draft picks each year

 

[Rick]

If they want a catcher they like, just keep Koyie Hill because he's cheap and will help the Cubs earn high draft picks each year

There's not an ounce of potential in Koyie Hill. I'd take a fat, bad Soto over Hill any day.

 

[X]

I'd just assume have yadier molina behind the plate for us next season anyway :shrug:

 

[Rice Cube]

There's not an ounce of potential in Koyie Hill. I'd take a fat, bad Soto over Hill any day.

Yeah, but the point I'm trying to make is that you want younger potential so you're not stuck with fat, bad, AND expensive Soto when the Cubs can't contend.

 

[Rick]

Yeah, but the point I'm trying to make is that you want younger potential so you're not stuck with fat, bad, AND expensive Soto when the Cubs can't contend.

He's only getting 3 million this year and isn't signed for next year. He's in no position to earn or demand a long term, big money contract. I want to see this team blown up but if Soto is one of the players they plan on keeping, I wouldn't be too upset about it because you're getting a decent defensive catcher with some potential on offense. If they choose to get rid of him, I won't be upset about that either. I'd be willing to give the guy one more year and see if he can produce with the bat again.

 

[Captain Obvious]

X-Factor is probably correct that the Giants won't blow a bunch of prospects to acquire Soto when Posey will likely be back the next season at catcher, but elite hitting catchers don't always stay at that position...eventually they will move to 1B or even the outfield to protect them from injury. That doesn't mean the Giants will do that, because Posey is so young, but it's good to keep an open mind...which I doubt Brian Sabean has :lol:

Soto has already turned 28 and has been injured and inconsistent. He is likely to bounce back to 2008/2010 levels, and if you gave him to a smart GM who understands that he has plate discipline and power and is also a decent defensive catcher, then you're likely to get something back. His age, injury and inconsistency preclude the possibility of retrieving the uber-hawt prospects in trade, but that doesn't mean you'll get shit in return either.

Think about it...Soto has two years of arbitration left, that is HUGE in determining trade value. Just because he's slumping now doesn't mean that you can't get something back, particularly if the team attempting to acquire him is desperate for some offense (i.e. the Giants or maybe one of the AL West teams). There's little point in retaining an (bears repeating) aging, potentially-declining, injury-prone, inconsistent catcher and hoping he turns into a superstar next season on the off-chance that you can contend. The alternative is to have a legitimate chance to restock the farm system. Considering that there is little point in marginal wins when only the top two teams in the division can even get to the playoffs, what would you rather do...hope that the Cubs play out of their skulls with the same basic core that has sucked this season, or trade the valuable pieces for new guys who will probably suck just as much at first, but will at least have some potential going forward to make the 2015 Cubs contenders?

:cubs:

No one is expecting soto to turn into a superstar, we're expecting him to be the soto he has shown he can be. We understand this year is a wash, we do. But next year isn't. Assuming we get prince, we're gonna need geo. Those prospects won't help us out then(more than likely). For those of you who don't think we will contend next year, why do you want to move him now? When we can move him next year, or the next year? His value will certainly be higher at some point as opposed to now.

 

[Rick]

This is a list of free agent catchers in 2012, age in parenthesis going into 2012:

Rod Barajas (36)
Henry Blanco (40)
Ramon Castro (36)
Ryan Doumit (31) - $7.25MM club option for 2012, $8.25MM club option for '13 with a $500K buyout
Ramon Hernandez (36)
Jason Kendall (38)
Gerald Laird (32)
Jose Molina (36)
Yadier Molina (29) - $7MM club option with a $750K buyout
Dioner Navarro (28)
Ivan Rodriguez (40)
Brian Schneider (35)
Kelly Shoppach (29) - $3.2MM club option with a $300K buyout
Chris Snyder (31) - $6.75MM club option with a $750K buyout
Matt Treanor (36)
Jason Varitek (40)



There is nobody on this list that I would want other than Yadier Molina and I'm pretty sure he'll end up staying with St. Louis. As bad as this may sound, I'd rather have Soto than any one of these guys...honestly.