Give Theo time

[mountsalami]

The Cubs were playing better baseball in June and July. If they didnt trade Dempster, Soto, Malhom, and Johnson, they wouldnt have been as bad. But they still wouldn't have made the playoffs so there was no reason to hanging on to those players.

Same will happen this year with guys like DeJesus, Villanueva, Feldman, Garza

And the 'circle of despair' continues.........

 

[Boobaby1]

I forgot to mention. In Harper's first full year, he was on the same track as Baez. He spent the first half of the season in Middle-A and then was promoted to A+ after 72 games.

But it's not far to judge any prospect to Bryce Harper. We can all agree he is a once in a lifetime player.

Alright, by your judgment, Harper is a once in a lifetime player. Therefore, Baez is not going to excel at the rate Harper did then. Right?

Again, we are more than 2 years away from anything unless the pocket book opens.

Now if you had said that maybe Appel or Gray could be on this team, that I'll buy. However, there will still have to be complimentary players coming from somewhere.

 

[The Bandit]

I don't think any real fan of the Cubs with half a brain (ie. not the drunks in the stands or D3A) expected Theo to turn this team around in a year and a half. But the clock is ticking. He has maybe 3-5 years if he is lucky before the fan base give up hope on Theo and Jed. Yes the new rules hurt, yes we still have terrible deals on the books in Soriano and Marmol. But at some point we need to do something other then bring in stop gaps. Whether it be make some sort of real splash in FA or a decent trade to pick up someone. But it's gotta be something that shows we are moving in the right direction. We can't wait until all the bad from Jimmy boy is gone to get it done. Rizzo,Castro, and Jeff are great starts. Seriously great. But at the same time, literally 1 of those are the result of the new regime. I'm giving them the time but they gotta give me a bone at some point. And for christ sake would they take the ego hit and can Ian Stewart and dump him in Lake Michigan already!

 

[Willrust]

Oct. 19, 2011. Theo named Pres. Both Theo and Ricketts said each season is "precious" and there will not be any "throw away seasons" . By June, Theo is telling Cub fans that he has to blow the whole thing up and start from scratch, it may take many years. Theo, being as smart as he's made out to be, didn't realize the shambles the Cub farm system was in????? I think they gave false hope to the fan base, by saying payroll will be maintained, only to maintain ticket sales for at least one more year.

Might want to go back and look again, cause what you are spouting is complete bullshit.

1. Theo didn't sign with the Cubs until 10/22/11: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...ngton-cubs-chairman-tom-ricketts-theo-epstein

2. Theo really never changed his speach from his address to the Boston media in 2002 to his address to the Chicago media in 2011: http://browniepoints.mlblogs.com/2011/10/24/theo-backed-up-his-first-words/

3. There was also another snippet from his 2002 press conference: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20021125&content_id=180532&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=null Make note of "Our short-term goal is to win and win a World Series, and that starts with getting to the postseason. So if you need to write down what our goal is for 2003, it's to make the postseason." Just take out the words short-term and you have what he said in Chicago.

4. His entire quote on the goal of winning a world series can be seen here: http://chicagobrander.com/2011/11/04/6-cultural-changes-inspired-by-theo-epstein-pt-1/
Or if you don't want to link: “The goal is to win a World Series, but it’s about how we get there. We need to build a foundation for sustained success, including player development, for something that’s going to last. We don’t want to be the type of club that gets there and then disappears for 4 or 5 years. We want to be playing baseball every October someday.” Never anything said about precious or throwing away seasons.

If you really want an understanding of the approximate timeline for the Cubs deciding to "rebuild" take a look at this article posted at baseball prospectus in August 2011: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=14829

and more importantly these paragraphs:

"That’s the important takeaway from today’s announcement—not that Hendry is gone, but that Tom Ricketts and his fellow owners are starting to flex their muscles and exercise control of the team. And they have a plan:

Our focus will be on what we focused on the last couple years here, and that’s player development. We believe very strongly that the way to build consistent success in an organization is through identifying talented players, bringing them into the system and developing them into productive players at the major league level. … [The next GM will] have to share a commitment to player development. … We’ll look for guys that maybe have a stronger analytical background than we have here. … But I think we all have to keep that in perspective. The sabermetric stuff is important, but it’s just a piece. We’re not running the baseball organization by a computer model.

It’s too easy for those of us who care about the “sabermetric stuff” to focus on the “computer model” comment and ignore the rest. One of the vestiges of the Tribune era of management has been the lack of an infrastructure in the front office. The team had the smallest front office in MLB under the Tribune and has been slow to adopt any kind of advanced analysis. They brought on Ari Kaplan as the manager of statistical analysis, but by himself he’d be hard pressed to do the sort of things teams like the Rays and the Indians (much less the Red Sox or Yankees) are doing. The Ricketts are sending a signal today that they’re prepared to change this. For the first time in decades, the Cubs truly have leadership. It’s yet to be seen whether or not it’s good leadership, of course, but it’s an encouraging first step.

It's not one that's likely to be well-recieved by Cubs fans, some of whom likely have visions of Albert Pujols in their heads as we head towards the offseason. This is a Cubs team that is girding itself for a long rebuilding, not a quick fix. Cubs fans are tired of being patient, so fireworks are to be expected. But if the Ricketts can pull it off, they can give the city of Chicago something new: a Cubs team capable of the sort of sustained competativeness they need to break their World Series drought."

Basically, Ricketts decided before Theo & Hoyer even came into the picture what he wanted for the Cubs direction. This is not to say that Theo didn't have the same mindset, but it points to the same thing. The Cubs plan since Ricketts took over was to spend time and money on "rebuilding." Given the majority of high dollar free agent signings over the past several years it appears that plan may have been more financially responsible. However, I am certain that the changes to the draft rules threw a monkey wrench into the whole process and the Cubs have had to alter their timelines and planning due to this. A 3-4 year rebuild plan that really began with the 2011 international signing period and draft has likely been extended by an additional year or two. Basically, the 2014-2016 estimates that have been repeated on here and over at CBS many, many, many times.

 

[CherokeeReds]

“The goal is to win a World Series, but it’s about how we get there. We need to build a foundation for sustained success, including player development, for something that’s going to last. We don’t want to be the type of club that gets there and then disappears for 4 or 5 years. We want to be playing baseball every October someday.”

...The Cubs plan since Ricketts took over was to spend time and money on "rebuilding."

What it comes down to is what's really more plausible:

a) The Cubs are in the midst of a frustrating rebuild that may or may not be successful, but they do have a plan and desire to succeed, OR

b) Ownership cares about nothing except maximizing profit and will keep feeding the fans b.s., and Epstein and Hoyer, oblivious to the affect on their reputations, willingly get on board

I'll go with a).

 

[SilenceS]

This is my thing. I understand we are going through a rebuild. I just dont understand how people think it is just going to turn out all peaches and cream at the end. You dont know that. I dont know that. Theo and them dont know that. People have a right to be upset for the darts they have thrown at the wall because many havent stuck. Now, some people take it over board just like some people defend Theo and them on every move. Just some advice, Theo and them have made bad moves already. Its ok. All GM's make them. Now, to the people who think Soriano and MArmol contracts are killing this team is foolish as well. Soriano has been solid the past year and change. He has stayed healthy and that has always been a key for him. People who blame Hendry for this team being bad is also stupid because this is Theos team now. It would be like blaming Bush for our country state even though Obama has been in for 5 years.(not being political, making an analogy). Hendry did the best he could with the resources he was given. He came up short, but the guy would have killed himself to brign a championship to the Cubs. So, the whole knock on him is ridiculous and you lose merit with me when he is brought up. Leave the past in the past. Now, for people who say Theo needs 5 years to change this team is ridiculous becaue the Cubs are not small market. They should be able to put a competitive team out there by next year. If they dont, then I question Ricketts and his motives. I think Theo and them do what they can, but Ricketts wont open up his pockets. Yes, they are renovating and everything else but it comes a time when you have to make a splash. This team could compete with some of the right moves in the off season. They need the right bats and for their pitching to stay together. The bullpen is a mess. That may be the hardest to fix. But, people need to stop hating on people for being upset. This has been some horrible Cubs teams. The biggest thing that gets me is how not fundamentally sound the team is. I thought Sveum was brought in to make the bad plays go away. Well, it is not happening. I like Sveum as a bench coach, but I dont see him here by the time the Cubs are really ready to compete. I see both sides of the argument, but it seems people are so dramatic about protecting their side. There is a middle ground. Wish people would see that.

 

[justaChifan]

Must have struck a nerve? The date I posted was from Wikipedia. During one of the press conferences they (Theo and or Ricketts) DID say how each season is "precious" and they won't throw away any season. You must not remember. Not saying they are going about the rebuild the wrong way. But, they sure waited to drop the bombshell of a complete, long, rebuild till well after '11 tickets went on sale.

 

[KBisBack!]

What it comes down to is what's really more plausible:

a) The Cubs are in the midst of a frustrating rebuild that may or may not be successful, but they do have a plan and desire to succeed, OR

b) Ownership cares about nothing except maximizing profit and will keep feeding the fans b.s., and Epstein and Hoyer, oblivious to the affect on their reputations, willingly get on board

I'll go with a).

Theo was about to get shitcanned in Boston. With the money Theo and Hoyer will make from this deal, do you really think they care what their reputations with the fans are?

Incredibly stupid point.

I'll go with b).

You know, the option with all the facts to support it so far.

 

[KBisBack!]

Must have struck a nerve? The date I posted was from Wikipedia. During one of the press conferences they (Theo and or Ricketts) DID say how each season is "precious" and they won't throw away any season. You must not remember. Not saying they are going about the rebuild the wrong way. But, they sure waited to drop the bombshell of a complete, long, rebuild till well after '11 tickets went on sale.

You did strike a nerve with the biggest crybaby on the board.

The meat of what you said was 100% accurate, but he will get his panties in a bunch and call your complete post inaccurate cause your date was off by 3 days. Like somehow the three days is a major deal.

 

[brett05]

There is a reason Theo and Jed are working for one of the most historic franchises in baseball and all of sports and you're sitting at home.

Illogical argument. Bad debate tactic Chris J. You are implying that any move a fan disagrees with from management that the fan is wrong.

Also the franchise isn't historical for anything good. So it is historical, but historically bad.

 

[KBisBack!]

yes we still have terrible deals on the books in Soriano and Marmol.

Dumb.

The cutting of payroll by nearly $40M hurts the Cubs more than those two deals.

The Volstad deal hurt the Cubs more than those two deals.

The Stewart deal hurt the Cubs more than those two deals.

The idiots need to stop whining about Soriano. There are 5 everyday position spots that need more attention than LF. There are probably 3 rotation spots that need more attention than LF. The entire bullpen needs more attention than LF.

We can't wait until all the bad from Jimmy boy is gone to get it done.

Probably at least 75% of the roster has been turned over from when Hendry was here.

Only morons still place any blame of this team on Hendry.

 

[AmericanFlyer1]

What it comes down to is what's really more plausible:

a) The Cubs are in the midst of a frustrating rebuild that may or may not be successful, but they do have a plan and desire to succeed, OR

b) Ownership cares about nothing except maximizing profit and will keep feeding the fans b.s., and Epstein and Hoyer, oblivious to the affect on their reputations, willingly get on board

I'll go with a).

I couldn't help but laugh at this post...

First off, A isn't even an option because it remains to be seen on whether it is true. Based on what has been seen by management and what they have been "doing", the only logical conclusion is that this statement is false. It is true that they have a plan, but actions dictate that they have no desire to succeed.

Fail.

Option B is the same except based on what has been seen and heard, it is more likely to be true. For the exception of their "reputation" comment, which is flat out dumb.

So what it comes down is that A is only plausible who believe it to be factual and not a matter of opinion. That says more about the person choosing it than anything. I think in the political circles, those people would be known as "sheeple".

The fact is that most of Option B is what is happening. Not what is more plausible.

But thanks for the laugh though!

 

[AmericanFlyer1]

Dumb.

The cutting of payroll by nearly $40M hurts the Cubs more than those two deals.

The Volstad deal hurt the Cubs more than those two deals.

The Stewart deal hurt the Cubs more than those two deals.

The idiots need to stop whining about Soriano. There are 5 everyday position spots that need more attention than LF. There are probably 3 rotation spots that need more attention than LF. The entire bullpen needs more attention than LF.



Probably at least 75% of the roster has been turned over from when Hendry was here.

Only morons still place any blame of this team on Hendry.

What I can't wait for is what is going to happen when Marmol and Soriano are gone and there is nobody left. I have a feeling that it will still be Hendry's fault.

But let's face it, it should be. One of the more successful GM's of the franchise....it's obviously his fault. It has nothing to do with the facts you posted about the current regime and their incompetency's.

 

[AmericanFlyer1]

And to the topic of this thread...how much time???

10 years?

15?

Hell, let's just say that he can do anything and wins don't matter. Meanwhile, good luck on shearing day!

 

[patg006]

Yes the new rules hurt, yes we still have terrible deals on the books in Soriano and Marmol.

Didnt know a guy who hits 32 home runs and drives in over 100 runs is a terrible deal on the books. Hell at the going rate of 18 million--thats a deal now.

But at some point we need to do something other then bring in stop gaps. Whether it be make some sort of real splash in FA or a decent trade to pick up someone.

Why? So you can complain about how the big splash will be a terrible deal on the books? What should the next 'big splash' be?

As for the OP--You either are drunk or lost a bet. This thread is Special person......

 

[The Bandit]

Dumb.

The cutting of payroll by nearly $40M hurts the Cubs more than those two deals.

The Volstad deal hurt the Cubs more than those two deals.

The Stewart deal hurt the Cubs more than those two deals.

The idiots need to stop whining about Soriano. There are 5 everyday position spots that need more attention than LF. There are probably 3 rotation spots that need more attention than LF. The entire bullpen needs more attention than LF.



Probably at least 75% of the roster has been turned over from when Hendry was here.

Only morons still place any blame of this team on Hendry.

Way to completely misquote me. Really. Good Job. I'm not putting any blame on Hendry. I'm not whining either, I simply said that we can't wait until every single bad deal (I'm sorry you gonna tell me Soriano is worth everything he is making and so is Marmol?) is off the books. As an example I listed two bad deals. Nowhere did I put blame on Hendry. Or say get rid of Soriano. Might wanna learn how to read before you ***** and complain and misquote.

Didnt know a guy who hits 32 home runs and drives in over 100 runs is a terrible deal on the books. Hell at the going rate of 18 million--thats a deal now.



Why? So you can complain about how the big splash will be a terrible deal on the books? What should the next 'big splash' be?

As for the OP--You either are drunk or lost a bet. This thread is Special person......

I don't think you were here when I used to post. I suppported Garza. I supported all the big fish we brought in. I never complained. I only hopped on the rebuild bandwagon when it was evident that it was all that could be done. So you can misquote just like that last Special person. Simply put, Soriano is a bad deal still on the books do I look like I care? He's fine till the deal is done, never said anything about getting rid of him, if there is one bad deal that needs to go it's Marmol. Also I wasn't aware that you wanted us stuck in mediocrity forever and ever. Sorry I'm talking to a "true fan" who wants it done right. It's one thing to do it right it's another to wait to long. At some point you have to bring in a "big fish" that is literally in the simplest words I can (just for you since you can't read correctly) put.

 

[The Bandit]

Dumb. The Stewart deal hurt the Cubs more than those two deals.

Hardly hurt us. Colvin sucks.

 

[Chris J]

I forgot guys, Ricketts is looking to just make tons of money. He isnt spending $500 million on renovation. Trust me, Ricketts isnt worried about money. He has enough of it.

 

[KBisBack!]

I simply said that we can't wait until every single bad deal (I'm sorry you gonna tell me Soriano is worth everything he is making and so is Marmol?)

Probably 75% of the players produce less worth than they are making.

To whine about players who don't produce equal to what they make is completely failing to grasp reality.

 

[KBisBack!]

I forgot guys, Ricketts is looking to just make tons of money. He isnt spending $500 million on renovation. Trust me, Ricketts isnt worried about money. He has enough of it.

You know what guys with lots of money like to do??

They like to make more money.

So you really think Ricketts bought the Cubs to not make money?

Really?

He is spending that $500 million on renovation to make billions in return.