Give Theo time

[Chris J]

Rizzo is only one of the top first basemen in the league right now...

 

[Boobaby1]

Good plan however,
1. Maholm was brought in for the exact same reason as Stewart was, a stop gap who we were hoping to flip for more. Maholm worked out and we got Vizciano.
2 Bryd dropped off and wasn't he suspended for PEDs?
3 What's the Fielder deal? It's one thing to say we signed him but what did we give him because there is 0 chance we give him 10 years 214 mil so not sure how that would ever happen.
4. Marmol.... BLOWS
5. Soto.... blows
6. Colvin... meh
7. Zambrano.... he simply had to go. You couldn't keep him at that point. Look back at what happened and tell me big Z could have possibly been brought back, supported by management, players, and fans.
8. Even with those pieces, how far do you see us getting? Wildcard maybe?

The point of that would be that they tried. Wildcard maybe with the additional Wildcard added? Since the inception in 1994, the Wildcard spot has yielded

Won the WS Went to the WS

2011 Cardinals 2000 Mets
2004 Red Sox 2002 Giants
2003 Marlins 2005 Astros
2002 Angels 2006 Tigers
1997 Marlins 2007 Rockies

 

[The Bandit]

And we still have no farm... no future when Aram leaves or retires... no pitching once Dempster and Maholm are gone plus an aging Prince Fielder holding down 1st for 10 years... oh and no Closer

 

[CSF77]

Good plan however,
1. Maholm was brought in for the exact same reason as Stewart was, a stop gap who we were hoping to flip for more. Maholm worked out and we got Vizciano.
2 Bryd dropped off and wasn't he suspended for PEDs?
3 What's the Fielder deal? It's one thing to say we signed him but what did we give him because there is 0 chance we give him 10 years 214 mil so not sure how that would ever happen.
4. Marmol.... BLOWS
5. Soto.... blows
6. Colvin... meh
7. Zambrano.... he simply had to go. You couldn't keep him at that point. Look back at what happened and tell me big Z could have possibly been brought back, supported by management, players, and fans.
8. Even with those pieces, how far do you see us getting? Wildcard maybe?

The whole point was to win now.

So pointless to point out fan friendly ideas.

You win every problem goes away.

You lose every problem is magnified.


1. Maholm was brought in for the exact same reason as Stewart was, a stop gap who we were hoping to flip for more. Maholm worked out and we got Vizciano.

They would have signed him to be a #5. His option would have been picked up.

2 Bryd dropped off and wasn't he suspended for PEDs?

I covered it. I also posted it would have made more sense to go after Cespedes in a win now. Would have been Byrd in CF/Cespedes in RF. After Byrd poped Colvin would have moved over to RF from 5th OF.

3 What's the Fielder deal? It's one thing to say we signed him but what did we give him because there is 0 chance we give him 10 years 214 mil so not sure how that would ever happen.

Again this is a win now scenario. Seeing how if they signed him every thing would have been gearing to win in 12/13/14/15 etc

4. Marmol.... BLOWS

Didn't blow 2nd half last year...18 mil opened up from Zambrano opens up potential. And Cashner is still on the team......100 mph in the 9th has potential.

5. Soto.... blows

Expendable. Again this was a 2012 scenerio...Castillo would have still taken over.

6. Colvin... meh

Still has 20 HR potential. D is not bad at all. Not concerned.

7. Zambrano.... he simply had to go. You couldn't keep him at that point. Look back at what happened and tell me big Z could have possibly been brought back, supported by management, players, and fans..

Winning fixes a buttload of problems. Would be off payroll in 13...again your opinion is flimsy. You would rather have a crappy pitcher and no issues vs a pitcher that can win games but could blow up if the team sucks.

8. Even with those pieces, how far do you see us getting? Wildcard maybe?

I'd take that over 100 losses.

Rizzo is only one of the top first basemen in the league right now...

So?

 

[Boobaby1]

And we still have no farm... no future when Aram leaves or retires... no pitching once Dempster and Maholm are gone plus an aging Prince Fielder holding down 1st for 10 years... oh and no Closer

It was merely a foundation. Doesn't mean they still don't try and move Marmol, Soto, and Byrd to strengthen up the farm. Maybe Cashner is the new closer. The Cubs already drafted Baez, and it wouldn't have stopped them from getting Soler, and I guess they could have drafted someone other than Almora who was closer to major league ready.

I don't see where trying to win at the parent level completely stunts the growth at the minor league level. That is why Theo hired who he did like McLeod. They and the staff are the ones who are suppose to find the best players in the draft and scout the best players around the league.

You don't always need a #1 or #2 pick to net good picks. Does it increase the chances? Yes. But it is not a guarantee.

 

[CSF77]

And we still have no farm... no future when Aram leaves or retires... no pitching once Dempster and Maholm are gone plus an aging Prince Fielder holding down 1st for 10 years... oh and no Closer

Wow you are the whinny sort of tool in the bag.


A-Ram under contract until 2014. Who is in K/C right now? Jeimer Candelario. Lake and Vitters are still on the team....not seeing the issue.

Maholm had a team option.....so he could still be on the team.
They signed Feldman this year...still could have.....

and so on....

 

[The Bandit]

Wow you are the whinny sort of tool in the bag.


A-Ram under contract until 2014. Who is in K/C right now? Jeimer Candelario. Lake and Vitters are still on the team....not seeing the issue.

Maholm had a team option.....so he could still be on the team.
They signed Feldman this year...still could have.....

and so on....

Not whining. Just saying, we had no hope of just retooling like that. So many things would have had to go right just for a successful year. You act as if we were a piece or two away from a deep playoff run... we weren't.

 

[waldo7239117]

Don't bother.

 

[Willrust]

Holy fucking revisionist history Batman!

1. Guess everyone forgets what Colvin put up in 2011 and focuses on his 2012 numbers at Coors. BTW, where is Colvin right now?
2. Bring back Ramirez? He was fucking gone the minute Ricketts gave Hendry his walking papers.
3. Prince Fielder is a fat fucking slob. Giving him 9 years will bite the Tigers in the ass. I give him 2-3 years max before he starts coming down with some health issues with his back, knees or diabetes (Wilford Brimley says Diabeatus).
4. Fucking Zambrano? You mean the nut job that couldn't cut it in Miami? Sure Volstad sucked, but so did Z.
5. Cashner, bring him up when he makes it through a season without injury.

For the people that continue to talk about Jim Hendry, why do you focus so heavily on the good trades he pulled off and remain oblivious to the terrible moves that he made? What did he get for Sammy Sosa, Mark DeRosa, Derrek Lee, Ted Lilly, et all. Sure he did very well at selling some over-rated prospects to get Ramirez & Lee, but outside of that, he had some completely fucking horrendous trades. I have also come to realize just how bad the Cubs 2010 draft class was. If you want a glimpse into justification why Hendry was fired, look directly at that!

Now, on to Theo & Jed. Have they made some bad moves. Absolutely. Signing Conception was a bad move. Trading for Ian Stewart was a bad move. Giving a rotation spot to Chris Volstad was a bad move. However, some people are so focused on the Cubs trading 2 minor league players for 2 minor league players, and trading Zambrano for Volstad that they refuse to see anything else. Perhaps, Volstad was the best offer they had. For some reason, teams don't want guys that go ballistic on their own teammates on multiple occasions... Go Figure.

Even with that, why is there so little credit given for them getting Travis Wood (A SP) Dave Sappelt and Ronald Torreyes for a 7th or 8th inning RP? Hell not even little credit, there are still some that think that was a terrible trade! Then there is the Cashner for Rizzo. Some people continue to call that a terrible trade. All I have to say at this point is Cashner is responsible for 1 of the Cub wins this year. Several of the Cubs "financially responsible" moves have also been sound moves. These moves include DeJesus, Schierholtz, Maholm, Camp (last year), Valbuena (guy has been money this year) & not spending on Pujols or Hamilton. There is also the decision to give Samardzija a full shot at the rotation.

 

[The Bandit]

Holy fucking revisionist history Batman!

1. Guess everyone forgets what Colvin put up in 2011 and focuses on his 2012 numbers at Coors. BTW, where is Colvin right now?
2. Bring back Ramirez? He was fucking gone the minute Ricketts gave Hendry his walking papers.
3. Prince Fielder is a fat fucking slob. Giving him 9 years will bite the Tigers in the ass. I give him 2-3 years max before he starts coming down with some health issues with his back, knees or diabetes (Wilford Brimley says Diabeatus).
4. Fucking Zambrano? You mean the nut job that couldn't cut it in Miami? Sure Volstad sucked, but so did Z.
5. Cashner, bring him up when he makes it through a season without injury.

For the people that continue to talk about Jim Hendry, why do you focus so heavily on the good trades he pulled off and remain oblivious to the terrible moves that he made? What did he get for Sammy Sosa, Mark DeRosa, Derrek Lee, Ted Lilly, et all. Sure he did very well at selling some over-rated prospects to get Ramirez & Lee, but outside of that, he had some completely fucking horrendous trades. I have also come to realize just how bad the Cubs 2010 draft class was. If you want a glimpse into justification why Hendry was fired, look directly at that!

Now, on to Theo & Jed. Have they made some bad moves. Absolutely. Signing Conception was a bad move. Trading for Ian Stewart was a bad move. Giving a rotation spot to Chris Volstad was a bad move. However, some people are so focused on the Cubs trading 2 minor league players for 2 minor league players, and trading Zambrano for Volstad that they refuse to see anything else. Perhaps, Volstad was the best offer they had. For some reason, teams don't want guys that go ballistic on their own teammates on multiple occasions... Go Figure.

Even with that, why is there so little credit given for them getting Travis Wood (A SP) Dave Sappelt and Ronald Torreyes for a 7th or 8th inning RP? Hell not even little credit, there are still some that think that was a terrible trade! Then there is the Cashner for Rizzo. Some people continue to call that a terrible trade. All I have to say at this point is Cashner is responsible for 1 of the Cub wins this year. Several of the Cubs "financially responsible" moves have also been sound moves. These moves include DeJesus, Schierholtz, Maholm, Camp (last year), Valbuena (guy has been money this year) & not spending on Pujols or Hamilton. There is also the decision to give Samardzija a full shot at the rotation.

Thankkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk you

 

[KBisBack!]

And we still have no farm...

The farm would still be almost identical doing all of that plan as it is now.

You still could have gone out and signed Soler. The moves would have been made before last season, so they still would have had the #6 pick last year.

Maybe you don't have Vizcaino who has yet to even throw a pitch for the Cubs organization and already people are talking that his future is in the bullpen but the Cubs would also still have Cashner.

The only real thing you probably wouldn't have is this year's #2 pick. I will take a .500 major league record over the #2 pick all day, everyday.

no future when Aram leaves or retires...

Cause Theo and Co have really solidified that position already huh?? Not the position you really should mention if you are trying to defend the process that is going on.

no pitching once Dempster and Maholm are gone

Well they are both gone and exactly what pitching is there to replace them? You would still have Cashner.

plus an aging Prince Fielder holding down 1st for 10 years...

Oh the horror of having to endure having one of the premier sluggers in the game performing at an extremely high level the next six or seven years.

oh and no Closer

Yeah, they got that spot locked down right now also, right?

Probably the second worst spot on the club behind 3B to try and defend the process happening.

 

[KBisBack!]

I don't see where trying to win at the parent level completely stunts the growth at the minor league level.

Of course you don't. You are intelligent.

 

[KBisBack!]

Rizzo is only one of the top first basemen in the league right now...

LOL!!!!

Glad we can look at things realistically.

He isn't even a top 10 1B in the majors.

 

[Jntg4]

LOL!!!!

Glad we can look at things realistically.

He isn't even a top 10 1B in the majors.

Rizzo's been pretty damn good this year... .903 OPS currently 7th out of 1B, also higher than Adrian Gonzalez, plus Rizz plays some mighty fine defense. That said, he hasn't even neared his peak yet and is on pace for 42 homers.

 

[KBisBack!]

Rizzo's been pretty damn good this year... .903 OPS currently 7th out of 1B, also higher than Adrian Gonzalez, plus Rizz plays some mighty fine defense. That said, he hasn't even neared his peak yet and is on pace for 42 homers.

And after his first couple weeks after his call up he was on pace to hit close to 30 HR's in less than a full year.

Until he went cold for most of the rest of the season outside another 10 day stretch in Sept.

He has been extremely streaky early in his career and he has been on a tear the last two weeks.

Let's see where he ranks after the hot streak wears off and he strikes out a dozen times in a week.

 

[The Bandit]

The farm would still be almost identical doing all of that plan as it is now.

You still could have gone out and signed Soler. The moves would have been made before last season, so they still would have had the #6 pick last year.

Maybe you don't have Vizcaino who has yet to even throw a pitch for the Cubs organization and already people are talking that his future is in the bullpen but the Cubs would also still have Cashner.

The only real thing you probably wouldn't have is this year's #2 pick. I will take a .500 major league record over the #2 pick all day, everyday.



Cause Theo and Co have really solidified that position already huh?? Not the position you really should mention if you are trying to defend the process that is going on.



Well they are both gone and exactly what pitching is there to replace them? You would still have Cashner.



Oh the horror of having to endure having one of the premier sluggers in the game performing at an extremely high level the next six or seven years.




Yeah, they got that spot locked down right now also, right?

Probably the second worst spot on the club behind 3B to try and defend the process happening.

It's kind of laughable how you would rather have Cashner and Prince Fielder over Anthony Rizzo. Really is. Cashner throws 100 MPH ZOMG he's the GOAT. Rizzo isn't even at his peak yet and he's looking like he's a bonified all star already. So pretty sure we stole one in that deal. 3B go ahead and name one player that was young and deent that we could have gotten so far that would solidify 3B.. name 1. Hell I'd rather have Baez brought up as a 3B at this point. I seriously cannot grasp your thinking here. It makes no sense. You'd rather a .500 record over a top 5 pick.. why? I'd rather 1 or 2 years of 100 losses over .500 every year as if that's gonna get us anywhere at all. who is ever gonna wanna come here if we have no pieces for the future and are stuck at mediocre ball?

 

[The Bandit]

And after his first couple weeks after his call up he was on pace to hit close to 30 HR's in less than a full year.

Until he went cold for most of the rest of the season outside another 10 day stretch in Sept.

He has been extremely streaky early in his career and he has been on a tear the last two weeks.

Let's see where he ranks after the hot streak wears off and he strikes out a dozen times in a week.

Because no player other then Anthony Rizzo ever does that... especially Prince Fielder.

 

[Willrust]

I proudly present the most horrifying thing every found on the internet:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/d...r&team_ID=CHC&year_ID=2004&draft_type=junreg&

Followed by the sequel:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/d...r&team_ID=CHC&year_ID=2005&draft_type=junreg&

And the trilogy is complete:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/d...r&team_ID=CHC&year_ID=2009&draft_type=junreg&

Just because 3 wasn't enough:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/d...ar&team_ID=CHC&year_ID=2010&draft_type=junreg

 

[KBisBack!]

It's kind of laughable how you would rather have Cashner and Prince Fielder over Anthony Rizzo. Really is.

This is pure gold.

Go find anyone, anywhere who would trade Andrew Cashner and Prince Fielder for Anthony Rizzo.

I have heard some absolutely dumb ideas, but this instantly leaps right to the very top of one of the dumbest things ever said on an internet message board.

 

[The Bandit]

This is pure gold.

Go find anyone, anywhere who would trade Andrew Cashner and Prince Fielder for Anthony Rizzo.

I have heard some absolutely dumb ideas, but this instantly leaps right to the very top of one of the dumbest things ever said on an internet message board.

You can't trade them together, stupid they're on different teams. I wouldn't have rathered keeping Cashner and signing Fielder to 10 years 214 though. Man you really pick and choose what you quote to try to make a point don't you.