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We should have a Kobe-LeBron debate before a damn Jordan-LeBron one.
Shakes
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Sure, I'm willing to debate exactly how many years ago LeBron passed Kobe.
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Well, I agree that LeBron James has passed Kobe. But I have to admit that 2006 Kobe Bryant vs. a 2011 LeBron James is a pretty tough choice.
But I'll still take a 1992 Jordan far ahead of either of them.
Shakes
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If we're taking just one year, then it's hard to believe that 61-62 Wilt isn't the winner. Faster pace and playing 48 minutes a game or not putting up 50 and 25 is godly.
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That is true. I'm not gonna lie.
He actually averaged 48.5 minutes per-game that year because of OTs.
Not to mention never fouling out of any of those games that season or any other. And leading the league in assists one year. Wilt actually had a 9'5'' reach... And was a high-jumper and track athlete on top of that. He was a freak of nature.
The only two players who scare me imagining Michael Jordan going up against them are Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell. There's no way either of those players would have put up those kind of numbers in the 90's rugged, slower paced game. But they still would have been dominant players.
Before we go and deem LeBron James the best athelte in the history of the NBA, we should take a good hard look at Wilt Chamberlain. The guy was a stud.
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houheffna
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What the hell is your point? Who said Lebron was better than Jordan? Lebron being the most talented player is not limited to his athleticism, it also includes his capabilities...being that you have never seen Lebron use give and go in an offensive set, I don't expect you to be too familiar with Lebron's capabilities...
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lebron is one of the most talented players I have ever seen. But GOAT? Hell no.
pinkizdead
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i think there's an argument to be made for longevity. jordan played well until he was 34. Maybe the time off for baseball had something to do with that.
On the other hand, i just think the thing that makes lebron special is his crazy athleticism. Where else have you seen a 260lb man out run devin harris? At 31 will lebron retain the athleticism that makes him so special? Also is his gargantuan body going to limit the lee way that might come with dieting etc. I mean really have seen a sf in lebron's body type before?
Also w/o that athleticism will he a very special player?
pinkizdead
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the numbers would suggest otherwise. Unlike kobe, there's a legitimate dispute here.
pinkizdead
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i forgot lebron entered the league at 18. i'm changing my argument to time will tell. i don't think he's goat yet, but he does have the chance to be. people will always point to the caliber of his teammates being better than jordan's.
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To me, GOAT = best combination of stats, achievements, and impact on the game. Jordan is that and will be for the foreseeable future.
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I've never seen him utilize the give-and-go as often as Stockton and Malone or Jordan and Pippen have. Or even Bryant and O'Neal have. His jump shot simply isn't there. He's lucky he has the passing skills that he has or we would be talking about how Kevin Durant and Carmelo Anthony are better offensive player than LeBron is.
Jordan is way better than LeBron James and that isn't changing. Maybe if he went to college and refined his skills then it would be a different conversation. Jordan was lucky enough to gain a base for his game to grow upon under Dean Smith, and James was never that fortunate.
pinkizdead
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are you serious? what does going to college have to do with anything? Go to the nba and have your skills defined, **** college.
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That can be true that some players define their shooting stroke and their defense while playing in the NBA. Unfortunately for James, the Cavaliers had a coach named Mike Brown who had one of the worst offensive minds in the league... if not the worst. And he was there for about 7 years...
houheffna
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Your Dean Smith comment is insanely stupid, but let's play the game...Jordan, after being forced to play team ball at UNC...was considered one of the league's most selfish players his first few years in the league. Something Phil Jackson had to stop him from doing. Lebron has NEVER had that problem.
Lebron can do so many things better than Melo and Durant its obvious. Offensively and defensively he is a much better option because of the all around skills he bring to the table. Notwithstanding his physical abilities...
Lebron doesn't NEED to operate any give and go that much. You didn't see Jordan do a lot of give and go in that triangle either...but I showed you video of Lebron using that play essentially to create his own offense, because that is what he had to do to win.
I have seen him take over games with his jumpshot...what do you mean it just isn't there? He developed his passing skills what luck does he has? That is skill, he is not lucky he is good. Jordan was not WAY better than Lebron is now. Nobody over the last 30 years was WAY better than Lebron is now. Stop the madness...
houheffna
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Lebron started with Paul Silas...Jordan was never allowed to be the offensive force in college that he became in the pros...or he would have been the top pick in the draft that year...
And Mike Brown did nothing to inhibit Lebron's game...Lebron won 2 MVPs with Brown!!! Brown helped Lebron become the all around player he is today because Lebron focused a lot on defense. That contributed to Lebron being an all league defender at this point.
By the way, to show you how off you are AGAIN, stats shows that Lebron is just as successful shooting jumpers as Rose is this season...so you might be watching the games, but you ain't paying attention if you are...
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houheffna
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I guess I agree with that formula...but that said, skills and physical ability has to be a part of it also. Jordan is definitely the best, but to say Lebron has NO chance? That is being naive...
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Being forced to play team ball ultimately helped Jordan. There have been plenty of raw athletic guys to play in the NBA that just never have been able to play to their potentially because of skipping college. Eddy Curry, Tyson Chandler, Kwame Brown...
You can make the case that LeBron James is way too unselfish to be 'GOAT' material. He is the most athletically capable scorer in the NBA yet he is a 1A/1B option on his own team at best? Joining Wade and Bosh sealed his fate as being less than the GOAT. He isn't as fierce or competitive as Jordan was. Compared to MJ, LeBron is a clown.
Mike Brown used LeBron James in a way that has really not been done in the modern era of the NBA. That entire offense was LeBron and shooters in a walk-it-up set unless the Cavs' forced a steal. James probably scored+assisted on a higher proportion of his teams' baskets than anybody else in NBA history. Sure, LeBron naturally improved in the NBA, but I don't credit Mike Brown for that. Anyone with used that much in the league is going to put up monster stats. If anything, the triangle held Jordan back from continuing to put up those numbers. MJ was well-capable of averaging 37 points and 8 assists.
Sure, James was not way better than Jordan. But Jordan was still easily better, and that is way obvious.
You can make the case that LeBron James is way too unselfish to be 'GOAT' material. He is the most athletically capable scorer in the NBA yet he is a 1A/1B option on his own team at best? Joining Wade and Bosh sealed his fate as being less than the GOAT. He isn't as fierce or competitive as Jordan was. Compared to MJ, LeBron is a clown.
Mike Brown used LeBron James in a way that has really not been done in the modern era of the NBA. That entire offense was LeBron and shooters in a walk-it-up set unless the Cavs' forced a steal. James probably scored+assisted on a higher proportion of his teams' baskets than anybody else in NBA history. Sure, LeBron naturally improved in the NBA, but I don't credit Mike Brown for that. Anyone with used that much in the league is going to put up monster stats. If anything, the triangle held Jordan back from continuing to put up those numbers. MJ was well-capable of averaging 37 points and 8 assists.
Sure, James was not way better than Jordan. But Jordan was still easily better, and that is way obvious.
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I didn't say he has no chance, I just said Jordan would be that for the foreseeable future. As it stands right now, lebron is all hype and stat padding and no results
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