Greatest team ever/Greatest bulls team ever

[97Bulls]

you misunderstood me again

my point was that the offensive nature of the game was very different in 86 than it was in 96..in that there was high paced offenses in 86 than there were 96...again look at the stat i posted earlier

i brought that up to make a justification for why boston was 3rd in offensive rating and efficiency

I got you.

 

[houheffna]

Better yet, Hue needs a copy of the 91 finals...I'm seriously thinking about sending him a copy.....Especially The closing game 5 where Pippen lead all scorers and almost every other stat............Oh, and Paxson did outplay Magic, so did B.j Armstrong.....LoL

What in the world are you talking about...and what sense does it make to show a highlight from 1994 (you have posted this same highlight over and over and over again) when we are talking about 1991?

 

[97Bulls]

Do you reallllllllly think that the 80's was that much different in terms of the level of competition was from the 90's?

It's absolutely absurd to try to make a case that one era was much more highly competitive, or had much better quality teams, than the other.

Don't tell me that....it was code that said the comppetition was better in the 80s. I feel the talent is always no more 5% better or worse year in and out.

 

[houheffna]

Don't tell me that....it was code that said the comppetition was better in the 80s. I feel the talent is always no more 5% better or worse year in and out.

I don't think any team could have won 72 games in 1986...

 

[scottiepippen1994]

What in the world are you talking about...and what sense does it make to show a highlight from 1994 (you have posted this same highlight over and over and over again) when we are talking about 1991?

That 1994 Pippen gif is part of my logo to match my avatar sir!!!!

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhh!!!!!!....Its on almost all my recent posts..

But thanks for the constructive critisizm....

 

[97Bulls]

Paxson's job was to hit open shots when Jordan was getting quadruple-teamed...Magic's job was to....BE MAGIC FRIGGIN' JOHNSON!

I am not just looking at stats, though you grossly misrepresented the facts statistically yourself. Paxson averaged 13 points and Magic had 2 triple doubles and was a lot closer to averaging a triple double for the series than Paxson was to 18 points...I don't care how you look at it, Paxson's 13 points doesn't add up to what you consider Magic's "typical" expectations.

You are the one who need to take off the Bulls-colored glasses...

My bad hou. I meant in the 4 wins. Paxson avg about 16 ppg in the 4 wins. And on 60% shooting. Factor magics terrible defense, and the fact that he didn't do anything out of the norm.

It goes back to your original post where you tried to go by matchups from a one on one perspective. You just can't match teams up like that. Now if magic and paxson were playing one on one, then yeah magic kills paxson. But it wasn't paxsons jobe to run the offense and fill the stat sheet.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

That 1994 Pippen gif is part of my logo to match my avatar sir!!!!

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhh!!!!!!....Its on almost all my recent posts..

But thanks for the constructive critisizm....

Just put it in your sig. It's annoying as hell

 

[97Bulls]

I don't think any team could have won 72 games in 1986...

The celtics don't win 67 games in 96 either. And when you look at that team from 94-98, I think the bulls could. Look what that core did over those few years.

94 55 wins without jordan
95 47 wins with a rusty jordan, pippen and 2nd year kukoc and no rodman.
96 72 wins which is the all-time record
97 69 wins with rodman and kukoc both missing almost 30 games. And they were off to their best start of 17-1 before injuries hit them. And they didn't have brian williams who really would've put the bulls on a 75 win mark I think
98 62 wins without pippen for 38 games.

You don't thing they could've won 70 games from 96-98 if tthey weere relatively injury free? And notice I said relatively. The bulls were winning games with core players missing nearly half the season.

 

[houheffna]

My bad hou. I meant in the 4 wins. Paxson avg about 16 ppg in the 4 wins. And on 60% shooting. Factor magics terrible defense, and the fact that he didn't do anything out of the norm.

It goes back to your original post where you tried to go by matchups from a one on one perspective. You just can't match teams up like that. Now if magic and paxson were playing one on one, then yeah magic kills paxson. But it wasn't paxsons jobe to run the offense and fill the stat sheet.

Nope...20 assists in a game is not abnormal for Magic Johnson...because he is the greatest point guard to ever play the game. That mystical all around offensive game Pippen had that you all fawn over? Magic had that in spades.

That said...Paxson hit open jump shots. Magic averages 2 more rebounds he has a triple double for the series. No matter how you spin it...Magic was the second best player on the court and top 3 in the league (?) at the time and Paxson in his wettest dreams couldn't "outplay" Magic Johnson. I find the whole concept laughable.

As far as matchups go...people have been judging that way for decades. Just saying a team has more hall of famers so they win is not going to tell the tale. Harper is guarding who? Jordan is guarding who? Pippen is definitely guarding Bird. You don't put Jordan on Bird, not a good decision. McHale eats Pippen alive in the post and so does Parish...so Pippen has to guard Bird. The Bulls have nobody that stops McHale who had arguably the best post game in NBA history. And Parish dominates the center matchup. To dismiss the Celtics because the Lakers beat them is awfully presumptuous. The Celtics had the best front court in NBA history...the Lakers at the time had 2 of the top 5 players in NBA history, though one was winding down. They also had James Worthy, another top 50 player who was an awesome player in his own right.

So would it be fair to say that the Bulls had 2 top 50 players and the Celtics had 4? I don't think so...it might be fair to say that

Bird/McHale/Parish > Jordan/Pippen/Rodman or vice versa...that might just tell the tale by itself.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Don't tell me that....it was code that said the comppetition was better in the 80s. I feel the talent is always no more 5% better or worse year in and out.

i never said it in the context you are referring to

as for your second point...i think in the modern era i agree with the statement though i think from the 60- 80s or 90s there was a gradual(not necessarily drastic) rise in athleticism with advancements in technology for training as well as changes in methods for training.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Just put it in your sig. It's annoying as hell

So is your constant Three Amigos picture on every single one of your posts...

Time to chang it sir..

But don't worry, I'm keeping mine just like it is...

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

So is your constant Three Amigos picture on every single one of your posts...

Time to chang it sir..

But don't worry, I'm keeping mine just like it is...

It's in my sig. Not every post. Everytime somebody quotes you, that gif img pops up and it's hard on the eyes

 

[scottiepippen1994]

It's in my sig. Not every post. Everytime somebody quotes you, that gif img pops up and it's hard on the eyes

LoL
I don't know how to make it my signature..
Please private message me and teach me how great Yoda ob the CCS forum..

Thank you Nwfisch for sending me instructions on how to fix my signature...Rami will be quite pleased..

 

[97Bulls]

Nope...20 assists in a game is not abnormal for Magic Johnson...because he is the greatest point guard to ever play the game. That mystical all around offensive game Pippen had that you all fawn over? Magic had that in spades.
Well he didn't have the defensive impact pippen did. Nowhere near.

That said...Paxson hit open jump shots. Magic averages 2 more rebounds he has a triple double for the series. No matter how you spin it...Magic was the second best player on the court and top 3 in the league (?) at the time and Paxson in his wettest dreams couldn't "outplay" Magic Johnson. I find the whole concept laughable.
It has nothing to do with whose better. And as I have already said, paxson didn't have to even try to outplay magic. His job was to hit open shots. He did that with the efficiciency of shaq after game 1. Magic had a lot of assists sure, and he scored his fair share of points. But he wasn't very efficient. He shot 31, 47, 46, and 33% in the lakers 4 losses vs the bulls. So while he had a great series statistically, he didn't do his job.


As far as matchups go...people have been judging that way for decades.
But it should never be construed as a means to determine which team would win.


Just saying a team has more hall of famers so they win is not going to tell the tale. Harper is guarding who? Jordan is guarding who? Pippen is definitely guarding Bird. You don't put Jordan on Bird, not a good decision. McHale eats Pippen alive in the post and so does Parish...so Pippen has to guard Bird. The Bulls have nobody that stops McHale who had arguably the best post game in NBA history. And Parish dominates the center matchup. To dismiss the Celtics because the Lakers beat them is awfully presumptuous. The Celtics had the best front court in NBA history...the Lakers at the time had 2 of the top 5 players in NBA history, though one was winding down. They also had James Worthy, another top 50 player who was an awesome player in his own right.

So would it be fair to say that the Bulls had 2 top 50 players and the Celtics had 4? I don't think so...it might be fair to say that

Bird/McHale/Parish > Jordan/Pippen/Rodman or vice versa...that might just tell the tale by itself.

This is the way I see it....

The celtics best defender is dennis johnson who's 6'4. He would be on jordan. And he would get killed.

Bird can defend pippen either.

The bulls could put rodman who was one of the best low post defenders in the league on mchale. Annd no one on the celtics will keep rodman off the boards. Thus thee bulls will have the rebounding advantage

Parrish would give longley a hard time though. Id put harper on bird since harpers 6'6 and a good defender who even at that stage was just as athletic as bird. This would allow pippen and jordan to roam and create havoc on defense.

And the celtics don't have a man on that team that can stop kukoc either.

Basically, I see the bulls being able to give the celtics a harder time and taking the celtics out of their confort zone than celtics to the bulls.

 

[houheffna]

This is the way I see it....

The celtics best defender is dennis johnson who's 6'4. He would be on jordan. And he would get killed.

Bird can defend pippen either.

The bulls could put rodman who was one of the best low post defenders in the league on mchale. Annd no one on the celtics will keep rodman off the boards. Thus thee bulls will have the rebounding advantage

Parrish would give longley a hard time though. Id put harper on bird since harpers 6'6 and a good defender who even at that stage was just as athletic as bird. This would allow pippen and jordan to roam and create havoc on defense.

And the celtics don't have a man on that team that can stop kukoc either.

Basically, I see the bulls being able to give the celtics a harder time and taking the celtics out of their confort zone than celtics to the bulls.

Jordan kills DJ....and your solution is to put Harper on Bird? Lol...I am just as athletic as Bird damn near...Bird wasn't very athletic. Doesn't mean he wouldn't have destroyed Harper. He would have. Bird was not being stopped at that time...Bird would have killed Pippen, what the hell is Harper going to do?

Rodman can't handle McHale in the post. At no time was Rodman ever the best post defender in the league. McHale is 7 feet tall. And by the way, he was a very good defender himself. And you can't roam away from Ainge, Ainge would kill you if you did that. By the way, Pippen wouldn't roam in those instances...he would be helping Rodman and Longley...both Parish and McHale would easily handle the opposition one on one. The idea of Rodman stopping Kevin McHale in the post is laughable.

You overrate Rodman's post defense. Grant was a better post defender. I Rodman was a shut down defender, why wasn't he guarding Olajuwon in the 1995 Conference Finals against Houston?

 

[97Bulls]

Jordan kills DJ....and your solution is to put Harper on Bird? Lol...I am just as athletic as Bird damn near...Bird wasn't very athletic. Doesn't mean he wouldn't have destroyed Harper. He would have. Bird was not being stopped at that time...Bird would have killed Pippen, what the hell is Harper going to do?

Rodman can't handle McHale in the post. At no time was Rodman ever the best post defender in the league. McHale is 7 feet tall. And by the way, he was a very good defender himself. And you can't roam away from Ainge, Ainge would kill you if you did that. By the way, Pippen wouldn't roam in those instances...he would be helping Rodman and Longley...both Parish and McHale would easily handle the opposition one on one. The idea of Rodman stopping Kevin McHale in the post is laughable.

You overrate Rodman's post defense. Grant was a better post defender. I Rodman was a shut down defender, why wasn't he guarding Olajuwon in the 1995 Conference Finals against Houston?

First of all, nobody stops anybody in basketball. I never said the bulls would be able to stop anybody. But the bulls would do a better job of taking the celtics out of their comfort zone than the other way around.

You keep refering to this in a way that would indicate that this game would just be a bunch of one on one. Team basketball isn't played like this. Stop acting as if it is.

Stating that, I never said rodman was the best low post defender in the league. But he was a one of the best low post defenders in the league. You cany deny that. He did a good job on players like webber, kemp (in his prime), shaq (when he defended him) mourning (when he defended him), and malone. Why wouldn't he do the same on mchale?

And again, it wasn't rodmans job to score. But his main job was to control the glass. And mchale was never much of a rebounder considering the time he spent in the post. Rodman would've killed that celtics front line on the boards.

And bird doesn't kill pippen. Your talking about arguably the best defender to ever play the game. Who could drop 19-20 ppg in an era that wasn't as offensive orriented as the time bird played. I think we both can agree with that. Even in their career matchups, pippen fairs very well vs bird. Damn near even.

And again, the celtics have nobody that can control kukoc.

 

[houheffna]

First of all, nobody stops anybody in basketball. I never said the bulls would be able to stop anybody. But the bulls would do a better job of taking the celtics out of their comfort zone than the other way around.

You keep refering to this in a way that would indicate that this game would just be a bunch of one on one. Team basketball isn't played like this. Stop acting as if it is.

Stating that, I never said rodman was the best low post defender in the league. But he was a one of the best low post defenders in the league. You cany deny that. He did a good job on players like webber, kemp (in his prime), shaq (when he defended him) mourning (when he defended him), and malone. Why wouldn't he do the same on mchale?

And again, it wasn't rodmans job to score. But his main job was to control the glass. And mchale was never much of a rebounder considering the time he spent in the post. Rodman would've killed that celtics front line on the boards.

And bird doesn't kill pippen. Your talking about arguably the best defender to ever play the game. Who could drop 19-20 ppg in an era that wasn't as offensive orriented as the time bird played. I think we both can agree with that. Even in their career matchups, pippen fairs very well vs bird. Damn near even.

And again, the celtics have nobody that can control kukoc.

Team basketball, by intelligent people isn't using Harper to guard Bird either...quit acting as if it is.

Pippen never played against Bird in his prime...Bird was not the same after 1988 when he suffered a season ending injury. Pippen held his own against a player with no back...great.

With Bird, you talk about the best small forward to ever play the game...arguably the best shooter ever...good offense trumps good defense damn near every time. I don't think anybody could stop Bird from getting his points and rebounds. And you talk about Rodman as if he could grab 30 rebs a game...Bird, McHale, Parish and Walton could rebound.

And I will ask again...if Rodman was so potent a post defender...why wasn't he defending Olajuwon in 1995 when Hakeem was killing Robinson? Why? He had to stop the unstoppable Carl Herrera? I don't think so...Hakeem would have destroyed Rodman. Which is my point, McHale had a post game that rivaled Hakeem's in his prime, plus he was taller than Rodman by quite a bit.

 

[97Bulls]

Team basketball, by intelligent people isn't using Harper to guard Bird either...quit acting as if it is.

Pippen never played against Bird in his prime...Bird was not the same after 1988 when he suffered a season ending injury. Pippen held his own against a player with no back...great.

With Bird, you talk about the best small forward to ever play the game...arguably the best shooter ever...good offense trumps good defense damn near every time. I don't think anybody could stop Bird from getting his points and rebounds. And you talk about Rodman as if he could grab 30 rebs a game...Bird, McHale, Parish and Walton could rebound.

And I will ask again...if Rodman was so potent a post defender...why wasn't he defending Olajuwon in 1995 when Hakeem was killing Robinson? Why? He had to stop the unstoppable Carl Herrera? I don't think so...Hakeem would have destroyed Rodman. Which is my point, McHale had a post game that rivaled Hakeem's in his prime, plus he was taller than Rodman by quite a bit.

And bird never played against prime pippen. So its still a relative wash statistically. And its funny how you have all the celtics being able to maintain their or even improve their production against three of the greatest defenders of all time. But the bulls are supposed to have problems producing on their end? Mchale was not a bad rebounder. But he was nowhere the caliber of rodman. Rodman alone with his 16-17 rebounds, accounts for 2 of the celtics frontline players.

As far as 95, I wouldn't have pulled robinson of olajuwan either. He was a great defender in his own right. And in no way shape or form is mchale on the level of hakeem olajuwan. You need to take off you celtics glasses. Mchale was good. But not that good. And he wasn't that much taller than rodman. He was 6'9 to 6'10 not 7'0. Rodman was listed at 6'8

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

1987 Lakers & 1986 Celtics > 1992 Bulls (back when Pippen was in his prime).

 

[97Bulls]

1987 Lakers & 1986 Celtics > 1992 Bulls (back when Pippen was in his prime).

How do you know that rami? You weren't even born when they played.