Haslem for Hinrich

[dougthonus]

A Miami fan asked if we'd do Haslem for Hinrich on realgm. Basically everyone there said no, but I think this could be a good way to keep Ben Gordon.

Now first, you'd have to believe that Ben Gordon wants to stay on the Bulls and the Bulls want Gordon more than they want Hinrich. I'm not sure that either of these things are true, and I'm highly skeptical that both are true.

However, if the Bulls had legit interest then Gordon's interest may come by default if he doesn't have luck in other FA areas. So if we can come to terms with Gordon, the right terms, then this trade would work something like this:

We free up 2.4 million in salary cap room with this trade. Move #2. Trade Tyrus Thomas for cap space and maybe a late draft pick or a 2010 pick or something. This frees up 3.7 million or so. This allows us to keep our 2 draft picks and Roberson/Nelson and still have enough money to free up Gordon.

Our incoming draft picks will take about 2.5 million total in salary. By doing these two trades we'd have a roster of:

PG: Rose
SG: Gordon
SF: Deng
PF: Haslem
C: Noah

Bench: Salmons, Miller, #16, #26, potentially another pick from the Tyrus trade, Roberson, and Nelson, and maybe another vet at the minimum.

 

[ryguy24]

I'd probably do it. It was funny, I was thinking this exact thing earlier today before it was posted on RealGM. It seems like our team turns very good whenever we have that solid meat and potatoes guy (AD/PJ/Miller/etc), so adding who I would consider another in Haslem couldn't hurt, especially if it inks us BG. Good defender who can hit the jumper off of the pick and pop, so he could definitely fit. I'm not sure why everyone ragged on the deal on RealGM.

With that said, has Chalmers showed Miami enough for them to not want to invest in Hinrich?

 

[Dpauley23]

I don't think that 2 trade is realistic as I don't see one team with interest in Tyrus. Second I love Gordon, but I just think since we have such crappy defense we need him and have to get rid of Gordon or Salmons

 

[Shakes]

I'd say maybe. It depends how much Gordon is willing to sign for. Basically I'd view signing him as a short term help/long term trade asset type deal, since I don't think he's the ideal SG we want long term next to Rose.

So if we can get him on a friendly contract (probably 8 million a year would be my limit) then go for it. If he wants 10+ million a year I feel that keeping Kirk would give us a more flexible trade position going forward. We know teams are interested in Kirk, and we know teams aren't interested in Gordon at 10+ million a year.

 

[Ralphb07]

dougthonus wrote:

A Miami fan asked if we'd do Haslem for Hinrich on realgm. Basically everyone there said no, but I think this could be a good way to keep Ben Gordon.

Now first, you'd have to believe that Ben Gordon wants to stay on the Bulls and the Bulls want Gordon more than they want Hinrich. I'm not sure that either of these things are true, and I'm highly skeptical that both are true.

However, if the Bulls had legit interest then Gordon's interest may come by default if he doesn't have luck in other FA areas. So if we can come to terms with Gordon, the right terms, then this trade would work something like this:

We free up 2.4 million in salary cap room with this trade. Move #2. Trade Tyrus Thomas for cap space and maybe a late draft pick or a 2010 pick or something. This frees up 3.7 million or so. This allows us to keep our 2 draft picks and Roberson/Nelson and still have enough money to free up Gordon.

Our incoming draft picks will take about 2.5 million total in salary. By doing these two trades we'd have a roster of:

PG: Rose
SG: Gordon
SF: Deng
PF: Haslem
C: Noah

Bench: Gordon, Miller, #16, #26, potentially another pick from the Tyrus trade, Roberson, and Nelson, and maybe another vet at the minimum.

Everyone but me said no

You forget to add Salmons to the roster. If we wanted Gordon still this trade makes perfect sense.

 

[Basghetti80]

It is tough. Haslem in our rotation makes a lot of sense but Hinrich being moved for him does not feel like us getting back enough value. Plus in this scenario finding someone to just take Tyrus for a future pick does not make a ton of sense. On its own merit I would like to have Haslem but just not sure what I want to give up for him. I think Hinrich would be giving up too much.

 

[dougthonus]

Everyone but me said no

You forget to add Salmons to the roster. If we wanted Gordon still this trade makes perfect sense.

I had listed Gordon twice and meant to have Salmons on there in one of the spots but was waffling on whether Salmons should start or Gordon should start. I think you have to start Deng because he can only play one position.

 

[TheStig]

On face value it seems acceptable because we lack toughness and is a big financial win for us but it completly throws off our balance like before. We would need to make some follow up moves because we will be thin in the backcourt and our front court won't have enough PT and still no viable option that can create its own shot. I'm gonna give Pax sometime and see if he can't hit a home run with bosh/amare or giving away JJ and a pick instead of this. We will be able to see closer to the end of the summer what 2010 will look like and what we are trying to do with our future.

 

[dougthonus]

TheStig wrote:

On face value it seems acceptable because we lack toughness and is a big financial win for us but it completly throws off our balance like before. We would need to make some follow up moves because we will be thin in the backcourt and our front court won't have enough PT and still no viable option that can create its own shot. I'm gonna give Pax sometime and see if he can't hit a home run with bosh/amare or giving away JJ and a pick instead of this. We will be able to see closer to the end of the summer what 2010 will look like and what we are trying to do with our future.

If you look at my complete roster afterwards it doesn't really leave us thin at any position:

PG: Rose / draft pick / vet minimum signing
SG: Gordon / Salmons
SF: Deng / Salmons
PF: Haslem / Noah draft pick
C: Noah / Miller

PG: Rose: 40 minutes / Gordon 8 minutes
SG: Gordon: 24 minutes / Salmons: 24 minutes
SF: Deng: 36 minutes / Salmons: 12 minutes
PF: Haslem: 30 minutes / Noah: 18 minutes
C: Noah 18 minutes / Miller: 30 minutes

We'll also have 2 1st round draft picks and whatever vet minimum guy we add to the roster

This lineup has more toughness and rebounding up front with Haslem / Miller / Noah as well.

 

[dougthonus]

Though I agree, you go for better players first if you can.

 

[Dpauley23]

I doubt Miami does this trade though

 

[dougthonus]

Haslem is in front of Beasley, and Chalmers faded badly at the end of the year.

 

[Frank Breakfast Styleham]

If I am Jerry Reinsdorf and the powers that be in the Bulls front office this trade happens over my dead body.

Although it would be nice to add a player of Mr. Haslem's ability, the pricetag of Kirk Hinrich is way too much.

Kirk Hinrich for Udonis Haslem!? That would be like trading in a Lamborghini Reventon for a '99 Honda Civic. You're giving up a lot and barely getting anything in return.

When Luol Deng is hurt, in my humble opinion, Hinrich is the best thing we've got and he's been the best thing we've got for more than three years now. If he stays for at least three more years his name is going to be all over the Bulls all-time record book.

So you can't just let a guy like that go for barely anything. If he ever is traded, unless it's a move to free up cap space, there's got to be a lot in return.

But the cool thing is, we can probably bring Haslem in for less so we could still have Hinrich as well as Haslem (possibly Tyrus Thomas and a number one pick for Haslem and a throw-in guy like Chris Quinn).

Here is a trade I would LOVE to see happen and everyone feel free to tell me what you think about this...

The Bulls trade Luol Deng, Brad Miller, Tim Thomas and a number one and two to New York for David Lee, Eddy Curry, Wilson Chandler and my main man, Larry Hughes.

If we do this, we can finally part with Deng and his first aid kit and bring in a rebounder, a tough interior presence and a straight up spark plug and shooter. Thomas is a fine player but he is notorious for his half-hearted composure. He's the kind of guy who only plays when he feels like it and the sooner we rid ourselves of that kind of atittude the better.

Would it be too awkward bringing back Curry and Hughes? I'm not convinced it would be.

And if we could bring in DAVID LEE, who is going to be opposed to that? That boy is nothing but a fantasy league stud! We'll have yet another ferocious rebounding presence (along with Noah) and we'll be getting a lot tougher and a lot more energy in the same deal.

It may not be the most popular move in this city, bringing in those two guys again but for a second go-around with the guys they brought in last February?

This might just be what we need to do to get over the hump.

But then again I don't know it all...I'm just a diehard fan.

My .02

fb-s

 

[TheStig]

dougthonus wrote:

TheStig wrote:

On face value it seems acceptable because we lack toughness and is a big financial win for us but it completly throws off our balance like before. We would need to make some follow up moves because we will be thin in the backcourt and our front court won't have enough PT and still no viable option that can create its own shot. I'm gonna give Pax sometime and see if he can't hit a home run with bosh/amare or giving away JJ and a pick instead of this. We will be able to see closer to the end of the summer what 2010 will look like and what we are trying to do with our future.

If you look at my complete roster afterwards it doesn't really leave us thin at any position:

PG: Rose / draft pick / vet minimum signing
SG: Gordon / Salmons
SF: Deng / Salmons
PF: Haslem / Noah draft pick
C: Noah / Miller

PG: Rose: 40 minutes / Gordon 8 minutes
SG: Gordon: 24 minutes / Salmons: 24 minutes
SF: Deng: 36 minutes / Salmons: 12 minutes
PF: Haslem: 30 minutes / Noah: 18 minutes
C: Noah 18 minutes / Miller: 30 minutes

We'll also have 2 1st round draft picks and whatever vet minimum guy we add to the roster

This lineup has more toughness and rebounding up front with Haslem / Miller / Noah as well.

You left out TT, have no pg and what happens if Deng is really injury prone or BG's deal doesn't get done? If I am not mistaken, we still would be over the LT. It could be the start of a few moves but I have kinda grown on the idea of having Kirk around. He is pretty solid for 25mpg off the bench and can fill in as a starter at either guard spot with injury. I really think Pax will be waiting to see what opens up. If you can flip both TT's, JJ and picks for Bosh or Amare, you are set. I just can't see him not waiting it out as this group as is, is probably good for 45+wins. Its not that much in salary and I am sure he will be able to flip JJ and a pick for cap space if push came to shove. I just can't see pax jumping the gun on golden boy kirk like that.

 

[RC_Skinny22]

I don´t like the fact that you don´t have a backup PG. When Rose gets into foul trouble we need a PG with experience. Not to think about what happens if Rose get injured.

 

[dougthonus]

You left out TT, have no pg and what happens if Deng is really injury prone or BG's deal doesn't get done? If I am not mistaken, we still would be over the LT.

I traded TT for salary cap space to afford to sign my draft picks and stay under the luxury tax.

It could be the start of a few moves but I have kinda grown on the idea of having Kirk around. He is pretty solid for 25mpg off the bench and can fill in as a starter at either guard spot with injury.

I like having Kirk around, but I don't like having anyone around who makes 9 million a year on average and plays 25 solid minutes a game. That's too much for a 25 minute per game player. Kirk is good enough to play more minutes just not on this team.

I really think Pax will be waiting to see what opens up. If you can flip both TT's, JJ and picks for Bosh or Amare, you are set.

Agreed. That's of course, always my first choice.

I just can't see him not waiting it out as this group as is, is probably good for 45+wins. Its not that much in salary and I am sure he will be able to flip JJ and a pick for cap space if push came to shove. I just can't see pax jumping the gun on golden boy kirk like that.

Maybe you're right and we trade JJ + a 1st to a team for cap space if we want to keep Gordon, though if we do that it eliminates any realistic possibility of trading for a star at the deadline.

 

[dunkside.com]

Frank Breakfast-Styleham wrote:

If I am Jerry Reinsdorf and the powers that be in the Bulls front office this trade happens over my dead body.

Although it would be nice to add a player of Mr. Haslem's ability, the pricetag of Kirk Hinrich is way too much.

Kirk Hinrich for Udonis Haslem!? That would be like trading in a Lamborghini Reventon for a '99 Honda Civic. You're giving up a lot and barely getting anything in return.

in between facepalms i'd like to point out that haslem got a ring, and he did it by virtually shutting down dirk nowitzki despite a separated shoulder.

Frank Breakfast-Styleham wrote:

When Luol Deng is hurt, in my humble opinion, Hinrich is the best thing we've got and he's been the best thing we've got for more than three years now. If he stays for at least three more years his name is going to be all over the Bulls all-time record book.

Frank Breakfast-Styleham wrote:

So you can't just let a guy like that go for barely anything. If he ever is traded, unless it's a move to free up cap space, there's got to be a lot in return.

of course.
in fact, didn't you hear that the cavs keep calling about trading lebron for hinrich + filler ? luckily for the bulls paxson keeps saying "no".

Frank Breakfast-Styleham wrote:

But the cool thing is, we can probably bring Haslem in for less so we could still have Hinrich as well as Haslem (possibly Tyrus Thomas and a number one pick for Haslem and a throw-in guy like Chris Quinn).

so hinrich > tyrus + 1st > haslem
paging dr fred. paging dr fred. we have a kirk fanboy on the loose.
and when you come, please bring some strong sedatives for me. i will need them after slamming my head into the wall for the next half an hour.

Frank Breakfast-Styleham wrote:

Here is a trade I would LOVE to see happen and everyone feel free to tell me what you think about this...

The Bulls trade Luol Deng, Brad Miller, Tim Thomas and a number one and two to New York for David Lee, Eddy Curry, Wilson Chandler and my main man, Larry Hughes.

Since Lee alone is much better than Deng, NY laughs in your face.
Also, they won't compromise their 2010 cap space and their chance to get Lebron.

Frank Breakfast-Styleham wrote:

And if we could bring in DAVID LEE, who is going to be opposed to that? That boy is nothing but a fantasy league stud! We'll have yet another ferocious rebounding presence (along with Noah) and we'll be getting a lot tougher and a lot more energy in the same deal.

Makes a lot of sense, since the Bulls are a fantasy league team. Oh, wait ...

Frank Breakfast-Styleham wrote:

This might just be what we need to do to get over the hump.

What Bulls' fans need to do is get over humping Hinrich's leg.

For the Bulls to "get over the hump" they need to get rid of the hump. And the hump is made of Hinrich + Deng and their contracts.

 

[dougthonus]

Since Lee alone is much better than Deng, NY laughs in your face.
Also, they won't compromise their 2010 cap space and their chance to get Lebron.

I don't think the Knicks would make that trade, but it wouldn't be poor salary for them. If they keep Lee then his salary will count on 2010 as would Curry's as would Chandlers. The only salary they'd be getting back in 2010 would be Deng's which would be far less than the 2010 salary they'd send out.

Still, they're not going to trade Chandler and Lee to bring back Deng, especially if they want LeBron.

 

[engies]

I like the idea of the trade, though I would like more value for Kirk. If it was the only offer out there i'd say take it if you know Ben's coming back

 

[PJ Brown]

Haslem for Hinrich was a deal I considered an option last year, after the Bulls drafted Rose and the Heat drafted Beasley. I'm less inclined to do the deal now that Kirk dealt with his situation so well. Bottom line is the Bulls probably won't even entertain deals for Kirk until Ben is dealt with, but once Ben is signed up, I'd probably re-visit this one. I'd hope we can do better, but we could certainly do worse.