HAWKS 2010 DRAFT DISCUSSION (KEVIN HAYES)

[Razzberry]

[quote name="TJD"]



On the Simpson point, during his draft year M.A. Fleury didn't have a great win loss record but is probably in the top 5 goalies in the league.



Simpson doesn't have terrible stats, actually pretty good stats for an 18 year old in the WHL.[/quote]

No, he's definitely not.

 

[Maiden]

[quote name="Razzberry"]

No, he's definitely not.[/quote]



Who are the top 5 goalies in this league in your twisted world???

 

[Pez68]

[quote name="Maiden"]



Who are the top 5 goalies in this league in your twisted world???[/quote]



I dunno, but MAF certainly isn't one of them.

 

[Razzberry]

[quote name="Maiden"]



Who are the top 5 goalies in this league in your twisted world???[/quote]

I don't really have a list, but off the top of my head

Miller, Bryzgalov, Brodeur, Rask, and Lundqvist are all hands down better goaltenders than Fleury. There's a couple other cases for goaltenders that could be argued as slightly better or worse than him as well (Halak, Rinne, Kiprusoff, Niemi are the main ones that come to mind). He may very well be top 10 (he'd probably be around 9-12 on my personal list if I bothered to rank them), but he's definitely not top 5.

 

[Razzberry]

[quote name="Ton"]Why didn't we pick Pickard when we had the chance? Admittedly, I don't know much on Simpson but even a quick google search shows that the guy isn't a winner. Why not Sam Brittain if we had to pass on Pickard? I don't know much about our last pick, Mac Carruth, but with a 7th round pick that's hardly a gamble so I don't mind.[/quote]

Simpson went 22-9-1 and was second in the WHL in GAA (2.25) and SV% (0.925) during the regular season. Doesn't seem too shabby to me.

 

[Guest]

[quote name="Razzberry"]

I don't really have a list, but off the top of my head

Miller, Bryzgalov, Brodeur, Rask, and Lundqvist are all hands down better goaltenders than Fleury. There's a couple other cases for goaltenders that could be argued as slightly better or worse than him as well (Halak, Rinne, Kiprusoff, Niemi are the main ones that come to mind). He may very well be top 10 (he'd probably be around 9-12 on my personal list if I bothered to rank them), but he's definitely not top 5.[/quote]



Well other than Niemi at least one of the other goalies you mentioned on that list have their name on the Stanley Cup. Niemi will show if he's legit next season. We better hope he is.



I'd say Fleury is top 10 for sure. I'd also take Fleury before any of the rookies including Niemi. Although I might have a tuff time with Niemi until he has at least two years.



Kiprusoff is not that high and Brodours best days are behind him. Lundqvist has yet to do absolutely anything but always gets high accolades.



Miller and Bryzgolov I agree with.

 

[Ton]

[quote name="R K"]



Well other than Niemi at least one of the other goalies you mentioned on that list have their name on the Stanley Cup. Niemi will show if he's legit next season. We better hope he is.



I'd say Fleury is top 10 for sure. I'd also take Fleury before any of the rookies including Niemi. Although I might have a tuff time with Niemi until he has at least two years.



Kiprusoff is not that high and Brodours best days are behind him. Lundqvist has yet to do absolutely anything but always gets high accolades.



Miller and Bryzgolov I agree with.[/quote]



Lundqvist hasn't done anything but then you say you agree with Miller and Bryzgalov, what exactly have they done?



I wouldn't put Fleury top 5 either but you don't need a top 5 goaltender to win the Cup apparently.



As for Simpson, since that's how this conversation started, he hasn't won anything... which is why I would prefer Pickard... goalie stats for a prospect is worthless unless its in the big games... and Simpson failed as Everett was knocked out in 5 games.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

[quote name="Ton"]



Lundqvist hasn't done anything but then you say you agree with Miller and Bryzgalov, what exactly have they done?



I wouldn't put Fleury top 5 either but you don't need a top 5 goaltender to win the Cup apparently.



As for Simpson, since that's how this conversation started, he hasn't won anything... which is why I would prefer Pickard... goalie stats for a prospect is worthless unless its in the big games... and Simpson failed as Everett was knocked out in 5 games.[/quote]



Uhhh what?



Lundqvist and Vokoun have been the top **3** goalies since the lockout.

 

[Ton]

I'm not arguing that... just sayin' I'd rather have the goalie that has winning experience.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

[quote name="Ton"]I'm not arguing that... just sayin' I'd rather have the goalie that has winning experience.[/quote]



Yea I gotcha... but anyone who is going to compare Miller and Bryz to Vokoun/Lundqvist is just a /facepalm.

 

[Ton]

[quote name="Stu Grimson"]



Yea I gotcha... but anyone who is going to compare Miller and Bryz to Vokoun/Lundqvist is just a /facepalm.[/quote]



To me, its like comparing oranges to oranges... you can say those are the top 4 goaltenders easily and interchange any of them and the list would still look correct.



Funny thing though, if you are looking for a top goaltender or you are looking for a winner, there is a difference.



Top goaltenders: Miller, Lundqvist, Bryzgalov, Vokoun



Winners: Fleury, Osgood, Niemi, Ward



Different list... who knows. Perhaps thats going to be the difference between Jack Campbell/Calvin Pickard and Kent Simpson/other junior goaltenders with attractive "stats".

 

[MassHavoc]

What the hell happen, I thought this was a draft thread?

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

[quote name="Ton"]



To me, its like comparing oranges to oranges... you can say those are the top 4 goaltenders easily and interchange any of them and the list would still look correct.



Funny thing though, if you are looking for a top goaltender or you are looking for a winner, there is a difference.



Top goaltenders: Miller, Lundqvist, Bryzgalov, Vokoun



Winners: Fleury, Osgood, Niemi, Ward



Different list... who knows. Perhaps thats going to be the difference between Jack Campbell/Calvin Pickard and Kent Simpson/other junior goaltenders with attractive "stats".[/quote]



Yikes... touche... that is a pretty bad list if you look at it from a distant standpoint.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

[quote name="Ton"]



To me, its like comparing oranges to oranges... you can say those are the top 4 goaltenders easily and interchange any of them and the list would still look correct.



Funny thing though, if you are looking for a top goaltender or you are looking for a winner, there is a difference.



Top goaltenders: Miller, Lundqvist, Bryzgalov, Vokoun



Winners: Fleury, Osgood, Niemi, Ward



Different list... who knows. Perhaps thats going to be the difference between Jack Campbell/Calvin Pickard and Kent Simpson/other junior goaltenders with attractive "stats".[/quote]



Yikes... touche... that is a pretty bad list if you look at it from a distant standpoint.



The days of paying goalies 3.5-5.5 million are over IMO.

 

[MassHavoc]

[quote name="Stu Grimson"]WE HEARD YOU THE FIRST TIME... yeeesh... :dance:



Yikes... touche... that is a pretty bad list if you look at it from a distant standpoint.



The days of paying goalies 3.5-5.5 million are over IMO.[/quote]