I am all in on rebuild

[CSF77]

Oh and the 2019 bit. I guess you didnt know.

Regardless Theo overhauled his management team then and brought in a new director of development. Implemented a pitching lab. And moved McLoyd out of running the draft.

Most of the pen arms have come up via the lab and they have done better that expected. Others teams have done this and Theo got on board with it. Justin Steel might be the first proven product and he is a 40 grade arm and he is dominating AAA hitting.

Now you can say lets see what happens. Normally I would agree but seeing how Jed has made the decision to push both Steel and Thompson into starting when he could have let things lie? No he has a plan and it is on Steel and Thompson to prove Jed right.

I wouldnt bank against them. Mills ya. He is filler talent. Those two hoover mid 90's and that matters.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

I honestly only see a 1.5 year rebuild that includes the end of this year. We have a high volume of MLB ready prospects and $150 million to spend on super star FA's. THere is no reason not to spend and the returns we got were quite phenomenal considering we gave up two month rentals.

 

[CSF77]

I honestly only see a 1.5 year rebuild that includes the end of this year. We have a high volume of MLB ready prospects and $150 million to spend on super star FA's. THere is no reason not to spend and the returns we got were quite phenomenal considering we gave up two month rentals.

Ya I can see that.

They flushed out the pipes this year. This winter they need to replace what they lost.

2B done.
SS done.

Both internal.

3B/1B got one and a corner IF. Belt would be the bottom target here. Freeman the top. Wisdom plays 3B.

OF they have Davis a year out. He would be my gauge on the next wave. I would add 1 bat here.

Pitching. Rotation would be a minus again. Replacing Mills with Rondon would make it respectable and not co-dependant on the farm. I would rather have Marquez push his way in a force a guy out than keeping a poor rotation together waiting for him to come up.

Pen. It was hosed out. Some interesting arms but they need to really invest here.

So my opinion is target Rondon and Castillanos. Then they need a left handed bat. Belt is fine. Freddy might be wishfull thinking. All of them would play into the next gen fine. Then stablize the pen. Weick and Wick returning is a plus. Maples maybe a plus. The rest are question marks and that is fine when talking about the 7-9 spot. Not the 1-5.

 

[CSF77]

But on the guys they got. I feel good about Crow. He was injured and I doubt the Cubs get him healthy
The rest toolsy holes in games. High risk talent. Almost all fall into toss on the wall and see wgat sticks.

 

[CSF77]

Cubs site. Talking about thus today.

DENVER -- Nine years ago, Kyle Hendricks came to the Cubs as a pitching prospect in a Trade Deadline deal. Now the veteran leader of Chicago's rotation, he cracked a smile Thursday morning while discussing how much things have changed in development.
When Hendricks was a Minor Leaguer, there were no high-speed cameras or the seemingly endless amount of data and information available instantly now. Hendricks mostly relied on the eyes and experience of his coaches and catchers for feedback, and went from there.
"Anything you want to get better at is possible now, really," Hendricks said ahead of Thursday afternoon's 6-5 loss to the Rockies. "It doesn't leave as much up to the naked eye."
The Cubs are hardly alone in the advancements made on the player-development front in recent years. Having something like Chicago's pitching lab is now the standard around baseball. But the Cubs are pairing those leaps forward with a better foundation of arms than at the front end of the last rebuild.
One of the reasons the Cubs are holding out hope that this transition period will not involve a lengthy, painful rebuilding process is the potential of some of the coming arms. Over the next two months, specifically, Chicago will be continuing to evaluate Adbert Alzolay, with Justin Steele expected to return from Triple-A Iowa as a starter soon.


"We're going to map some things out here," Cubs manager David Ross said prior to Thursday's game. "[We'll] talk to all the starters, figure out exactly where [Steele] fits in. But yeah, we've got a plan. We'll communicate that to him and the rest of the group really soon."
The Cubs like the controllable (and affordable) foundation of Alzolay, Steele and Keegan Thompson. All three right-handers are 26 years old. Alzolay has had ups and downs in his first full MLB season, but he has also flashed plenty of potential. The Cubs broke Steele and Thompson into the big leagues as relievers, but both are stretching out as starting options at Triple-A.
That trio has decorated veterans like Hendricks, Jake Arrieta (Thursday's starter) and Zach Davies to offer veteran leadership down the stretch. Righty Alec Mills can do the same, and both he and Hendricks (signed through 2023 with an option for ‘24) fit into the ‘22-and-beyond picture as well.
Given the list of up-and-coming arms for the Cubs -- plus the payroll flexibility available beginning this coming offseason -- Hendricks said he believes president of baseball operations Jed Hoyer when he says this will not be a 2012-esque rebuild situation

 

[CSF77]

Pretty much what I was figuring.

Hendricks, Alzolay, Mills, Steel and Thompson. If they invest it will be geared towards upgrading Mills. They could also stay internal with Kilian in Iowa providing the same support Thompson and Steel gave this year.

Marquez needs a full year to prove that his shoulder is healthy. In Tenn most likely where they can keep him on a stiff schedule vs popping in and out out of a pen. Or Iowa where he could be called up. Tenn is safer. Keep the noise down on his call up and let him focus on getting his work in. Jed is doing this with Davis also. Iowa means noise. Is he coming up???? And so on. Tenn means he is still simmering. Lower pressure and let him get a full season in with out the distraction.

My opinion is Kilian is insurance right now. Iowa is fine and call up as needed. The rotation has 3 guys that will have bad days. They need to upgrade Mills and keep him in the pen. Mills is like Davies. A figure on a below .500 team catching a ride to pay the bills for another year.

If I had to guess at a pen right niw:

CL Wick
SU Heuer
SU Mapples
SU Rodriguez
SU Weick
MR
MR
MR

For a also ran team adding a few vets for stability is fine. Wick was solid as a closer when healthy. I would rather have Maples come in when a strike out is needed. That is what he does. Abbott might be in the same boat but to date he has not carried AAA to MLB. If it is a set routeen issue vs coming in on the fly, I'm not sure to be honest. But he strikes guys out in mass in AAA. Then gets ***** slapped in the bigs. It should translate better than that.

 

[CSF77]

Any Opportunity to Discuss a Nick Castellanos Return to the Cubs is a Worthy Opportunity - Bleacher Nation

Castellanos is already getting attention as a good fit for the Cubs this offseason.

www.bleachernation.com

 

[Zvbxrpl]

2nd part. You expect a 3-5 year rebuild. I countered with that 3-5 year plan will cause a loss at the box. From the history of Cubs revenues over the last 10 years it is very sigifacant.

Again, you're the only one talking about revenue--which I made no point about. The Chicago Tribune/Forbes have the cubs as the 4th highest value MLB franchise. I don't give a shit about a short-term loss at the box. The cubs are a big boy market team who can afford to if it means another 5+ year window of contention.

I hear playoff/contending teams make big money and put butts in the seats, but that's why you're here, to lecture us on finance/revenue.

The floor is yours.

Regardless Theo overhauled his management team then and brought in a new director of development. Implemented a pitching lab. And moved McLoyd out of running the draft.

And the results....?

You still have nothing. Again, it's okay to be critical of bad/minimal results over a decade's worth of time to get anything better. They upgraded a pitch lab! Joy.

Now are you saying spend and contend while building the farm? If so well you are 100% on the same page as me and the Dodgers and the Red Sox and the Giants and the Yankees. These team do not plan to suck for years. Why do you ask? Because they can afford to spend to not suck.

Didn't we do this a decade ago? And didn't you/many here tell a small clique including myself/banned guys like KB/Salami that you absolutely cannot do BOTH rebuild AND compete when we suggested signing Prince Fielder/CJ Wilson while also building through the draft?

Like what a top 4 MLB revenue/value franchise does/should do?

Ironic now, all these years later that you want to do what we suggested and I want to tear it down--albeit with a better farm system going into a rebuild than 2012. And before you tangent/lecture--we were wrong then--the cubs needed the rebuild and 2016 I'd say was a success--but now we can't follow that template back to contention because of finance/revenue?

 

[CSF77]

MLB pick for a call up. Makes sense.

Cubs: Greg Deichmann, OF (No. 20)
With two of their everyday outfielders hitting less than .200, the Cubs should give a look to Deichmann, whom they acquired last week as part of the Andrew Chafin trade with the Athletics. Known more for his power before 2021 -- he topped the Arizona Fall League with nine homers in 23 games two offseasons ago -- he has adopted a more selective approach in Triple-A and is batting .291/.425/.439 with four homers in 67 contests.

 

[CSF77]

Again, you're the only one talking about revenue--which I made no point about. The Chicago Tribune/Forbes have the cubs as the 4th highest value MLB franchise. I don't give a shit about a short-term loss at the box. The cubs are a big boy market team who can afford to if it means another 5+ year window of contention.

I hear playoff/contending teams make big money and put butts in the seats, but that's why you're here, to lecture us on finance/revenue.

The floor is yours.


And the results....?

You still have nothing. Again, it's okay to be critical of bad/minimal results over a decade's worth of time to get anything better. They upgraded a pitch lab! Joy.

Didn't we do this a decade ago? And didn't you/many here tell a small clique including myself/banned guys like KB/Salami that you absolutely cannot do BOTH rebuild AND compete when we suggested signing Prince Fielder/CJ Wilson while also building through the draft?

Like what a top 4 MLB revenue/value franchise does/should do?

Ironic now, all these years later that you want to do what we suggested and I want to tear it down--albeit with a better farm system going into a rebuild than 2012. And before you tangent/lecture--we were wrong then--the cubs needed the rebuild and 2016 I'd say was a success--but now we can't follow that template back to contention because of finance/revenue?

That is a necro. KB and Salami.

KB felt that you can contend and build the farm. Teams can and they have. It comes down to who are you hiring to scout and develop?

Dodgers? Ya they keep on pumping out talent with poor picks. So this is a poor excuse.

It is really simple.

Winter time. Sign guys. Build to win.

Mid summer they suck sell. Penant run buy.

The only hard part is if they are tweening.

All the rest is who is your team? Are they hitting on talent or not? Are you able to get solid trainers and coaches to bri g out that talent?

I would say international they have been strong.

National conservative up until 2019 when they overhauled the system.

 

[CSF77]

I guess what it comes down to is regardless of the pick. Good teams (LAD/TB/Oak) produce talent.

Bad teams (Pit, Det, KC) have great picks and still screw it up.

How do you fix this?

Better pick and stand pat?

Fix your system then target higher quality talent?

Cubs did 1. 2019 they started to do #2.

At the end of the day it comes down to the team doing a great job vs getting gifthorses that end up...lets see a Baez good, Bryant good, Schwarber meh, Happ Meh, 3rd round bad, Little/Lange bad, Nico Good, Jensen meh, Howard good so far

Having a high pick means nothing if you can not develop it. It just makes the money part easier and more options to **** up.

 

[CSF77]

Hate to say it.

Teams with constant high picks it is for a reason. They suck on many levels.

To get there you suck.
To keep getting there some one needs to be fired.

To have a great pick and watch it waste away Cole, Talion, ETC. should be fired.

There is a reason why Tampa did great then swapped GM and a manager and still did great.

It is because it is a system. It has success and all they need to do is keep the current course. New people just continue what works.

All teams will miss on picks. It is a gamble. But there is a real reason why team A pushes out talent and team B doesnt. Team A is always fighting for a play off spot. Team B is fighting for a draft pick. Every year. And team A has a superior farm than B.

Why is this? The guys who run the show made it work and hire guys who can follow the path.

It is what it is. The Cubs have come a long way from tbe Trib years.

 

[mattb78]

This is all I have to say about sucking for a few seasons:

Cubs #1 overall draft selections:

2014	Kyle Schwarber	1B	Indiana	4
2013	Kris Bryant	3B	San Diego	2
2012	Albert Almora	CF	Mater Academy Charter, Hialeah, Fla.	6
2011	Javier Baez	SS	Arlington Country Day School	9

 

[knoxville7]

This is all I have to say about sucking for a few seasons:

Cubs #1 overall draft selections:

2014	Kyle Schwarber	1B	Indiana	4
2013	Kris Bryant	3B	San Diego	2
2012	Albert Almora	CF	Mater Academy Charter, Hialeah, Fla.	6
2011	Javier Baez	SS	Arlington Country Day School	9

3 outta 4 ain’t bad says mr. loaf

 

[Adipost]

I know this is a very trivial way of looking at things, but I looked at FanGraphs MLB draft projections over the past 3 years. In each of those seasons, they had exactly 7 prospects graded at 50 FV or above.

So the sweet spot, theoretically, would be to move up into that #7 spot. The Cubs have no shot at surpassing any of the four 70 loss teams (BAL/TEX/PIT/ARI). The best they could possibly hope for is the #5 pick.

They are currently at #10 and could easily jump the Rockies and the Nationals into the #8 spot. Then they just have to surpass one of Minnesota, Kansas City, or Miami.

 

[CSF77]

Steele Mills Day, Bad News on Amaya, MLB's Blackout Policy, and Other Cubs Bullets - Bleacher Nation

I regret nothing.

www.bleachernation.com

 

[Diehardfan]

Anybody still watching these games?

 

[dchawks59]

MLB pick for a call up. Makes sense.

Cubs: Greg Deichmann, OF (No. 20)
With two of their everyday outfielders hitting less than .200, the Cubs should give a look to Deichmann, whom they acquired last week as part of the Andrew Chafin trade with the Athletics. Known more for his power before 2021 -- he topped the Arizona Fall League with nine homers in 23 games two offseasons ago -- he has adopted a more selective approach in Triple-A and is batting .291/.425/.439 with four homers in 67 contests.

He is getting a look, hitting below .150 last data seen.

 

[dchawks59]

Anybody still watching these games?

No, check the scores to see if they are closer to a top 5 draft pick for next year. Overall, this team is hard to watch, without the "big 3" they are hitting about .220 or less. Though these guys are "major leaguers" it reminds me of the 1st "Major League" movie. Sad to see the guys like Hendricks, Contreras on a team that looks this bad.

 

[knoxville7]

Ortega continues to impress. He might be a guy worth keeping around for a bit