If he is available, Ray will be the Bears pick at #7

TheDane

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Vic Beasely

Ray had more production than any single pass rusher in this draft last season

First of all, it's spelled Beasley.

Second of all, I agree that Ray had a productive season. But if we're to look at the stats, Ray did not have the most productive season of all the pass-rushers in this draft. For example, I know for a fact that Hau'oli Kikaha and Kyle Emanuel had more TFL's and sacks than Ray. Not saying that they're better at all, but to state that Ray was THE most productive pass-rusher in this draft is bull, I think.
 

fatbeard

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Workouts are inherently misleading because of the margin of error involved. The difference between a "great" workout and a bad workout is well within the range of everyday variation, i.e. a guy didn't utilize good technique on a drill, and it "tanked" his workout--even Beasley admitted he was running in the 4.6-4.7 range until he got hooked up with the right trainer who showed him better starting technique for the 40. Hell, even guys who are coached well still vary tremendously within the same drill (Dupree running a 4.73 and then a 4.56). Look at what Randy Gregory just did running a taped "personal Combine" in which he improved his bench to 26, his 40 to 4.53 (same time as Beasley) and his 10yd split to 1.53, all at 243lbs or 8lbs heavier than his Combine weight. Which workout do you believe? The answer is the tape, because it's the only evidence with enough of a sample of eliminate the variance you see in isolated workouts. Don't get bamboozled.
 

PolarBear

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First of all, it's spelled Beasley.

Second of all, I agree that Ray had a productive season. But if we're to look at the stats, Ray did not have the most productive season of all the pass-rushers in this draft. For example, I know for a fact that Hau'oli Kikaha and Kyle Emanuel had more TFL's and sacks than Ray. Not saying that they're better at all, but to state that Ray was THE most productive pass-rusher in this draft is bull, I think.

Love a good spell check on a message board. Honestly, unless you are Vic BEASLEY or related to him, why do you even care? But I digress...

Ray played in the SEC and posted 14.5 sacks. That's more impressive than Kikaha's season in the Pac-12. Emanuel played at North Dakota St...Really?

What's more productive, a guy getting 20 sacks in high school or a guy getting 15 sacks in college?
 

AussieBear

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Love a good spell check on a message board. Honestly, unless you are Vic BEASLEY or related to him, why do you even care? But I digress...

Ray played in the SEC and posted 14.5 sacks. That's more impressive than Kikaha's season in the Pac-12. Emanuel played at North Dakota St...Really?

What's more productive, a guy getting 20 sacks in high school or a guy getting 15 sacks in college?

ah youre talking my boy now.

72 tackles, 25.0 tfl and 19.0 sacks.. Not bad at all for a scrub pac 12 player.... Neither the pac or sec won the national championship last year, but the pac 12 was at least represented in it.
 

PolarBear

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ah youre talking my boy now.

72 tackles, 25.0 tfl and 19.0 sacks.. Not bad at all for a scrub pac 12 player.... Neither the pac or sec won the national championship last year, but the pac 12 was at least represented in it.

Never said he was a scrub, I like him as a 2nd/3rd round pick. He has the ability to find a role in this league. Still, he played in a weaker conference and on a team with various other defensive stars like Shelton and Thompson. Ray was the guy teams were planning for on a week to week basis.
 

NCChiFan

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McShay has us taking Kevin White, wr. Just saying... Interestingly enough, all the mock's I've looked at today have us taking someone different with the exception of Waynes, Trea... Several have us picking him.
 

TheDane

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Love a good spell check on a message board. Honestly, unless you are Vic BEASLEY or related to him, why do you even care? But I digress...

Ray played in the SEC and posted 14.5 sacks. That's more impressive than Kikaha's season in the Pac-12. Emanuel played at North Dakota St...Really?

What's more productive, a guy getting 20 sacks in high school or a guy getting 15 sacks in college?

1) People spelling names wrong is a pet peeve of mine, and I've seen Beasley's name been spelled wrong on this board a lot.

2) You could definitely argue that Ray's stats in the SEC is more impressive than Kikaha's in the PAC-12, but that's not what I'm saying at all.

Production is production, no matter the competition. You stated that Ray was the most productive pass-rusher in this draft, and if we're to look at the numbers he and others produced, you're simply wrong.

Are Kikaha and Emanuel's stats more impressive than Ray's? Perhaps not (up for debate, though). Are they better because of the stats? Nope. But did they produce more than Ray? Yes, they did.
 

PolarBear

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1) People spelling names wrong is a pet peeve of mine, and I've seen Beasley's name been spelled wrong on this board a lot.

2) You could definitely argue that Ray's stats in the SEC is more impressive than Kikaha's in the PAC-12, but that's not what I'm saying at all.

Production is production, no matter the competition. You stated that Ray was the most productive pass-rusher in this draft, and if we're to look at the numbers he and others produced, you're simply wrong.

Are Kikaha and Emanuel's stats more impressive than Ray's? Perhaps not (up for debate, though). Are they better because of the stats? Nope. But did they produce more than Ray? Yes, they did.

"Don't sweat the petty things"
 

TheDane

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"Don't sweat the petty things"

The late great George Carlin was a better man than me. I'm not always able to sweat the petty things. Especially not when confronted with them so regularly.

Also, I take your lack of reply to the rest of my post as a sign that I'm right.
 

AussieBear

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Never said he was a scrub, I like him as a 2nd/3rd round pick. He has the ability to find a role in this league. Still, he played in a weaker conference and on a team with various other defensive stars like Shelton and Thompson. Ray was the guy teams were planning for on a week to week basis.

Yeah there are some valid arguments surrounding Kikaha. regardless, he produced and shows great hand technique for a rusher coming out of college. Comparing Ray and Kikaha arch rushing ability - Kikaha wins hands down. Also, Kikaha played near 250 lbs

His medicals have him limited to 2nd and 3rd round grades. If it werent for that, hed probably would be a first rd pick

Im not gonna bash ray, because i dont know the actual designs of their defense and i cant comment on him being sucked inside so much, among other things. He did get the job done though. I almost dont want any of the top OLBs the more i look at them all and the more I look at the roster. Id be happy with a trade down to that 11-16 range too.
 

PolarBear

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The late great George Carlin was a better man than me. I'm not always able to sweat the petty things. Especially not when confronted with them so regularly.

Also, I take your lack of reply to the rest of my post as a sign that I'm right.

Can't really disagree with the way you see something. It's not exactly what I meant by production as I was taking other things into consideration but if your just looking purely at numbers than that's your interpretation and I can't say anything about it. Doesn't make you right or wrong.
 

TheDane

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Can't really disagree with the way you see something. It's not exactly what I meant by production as I was taking other things into consideration but if your just looking purely at numbers than that's your interpretation and I can't say anything about it. Doesn't make you right or wrong.

Fair enough.

I know what you tried to say, but I think the way you said it was flawed.

Also, to answer your question earlier in this thread: 15 sacks in college is BY FAR more impressive and better than 20 sacks in high school. But 20 sacks in high school is still more productive.
 

RisWell

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And Dante Fowler only mustered 19 reps, a 32.5" vertical, a bad 9'4" broad, and an average 7.40 three cone...all while 100% healthy, and yet he's considered by many to be a top three pick. The magnitude of your inconsistency on prospect workouts is astounding.
Outside of 40 time Fowler #s are below average i just found this out. I watched the combine and he was getting all praised.
 

TheDane

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Outside of 40 time Fowler #s are below average i just found this out. I watched the combine and he was getting all praised.

Exactly. The experts were tooting Fowler's horn about every third second at the combine. He could do absolutely no wrong according to them. Even though he only managed pretty average numbers in some of the things, the experts made it seem as if Fowler was blowing the roof of with his workout, and that he was the second coming of a Reggie White or Lawrence Taylor.

Honestly, the event coverage was really bad this year.
 

Wild_x_Card

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Fun fact: the ACC has the most dominant pass rushers in the NFL. more than any other conference. What does this mean?

The bum slayer/strength of opponent is a myth created by people who don't know what they are watching compounded by not being able to see how a particular prospect projects to the NFL based off their skill set/ intangibles.

Fatbeard touched on this earlier in the thread. Conference be damned.
 

Defense Wins

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Here is the process of coming to this conclusion. It

1. Deciphering which of all the OLB/pass rushers the Bears like - With some reading and watching into what Pace said at the press conference, two things stuck out to me when he was talking about OLB/pass rushers. The first thing was, all he wants his OLB to do is be able to rush the passer, set the edge and cover in the flat with the latter being the least important. The only guys who can do all 3 of those things are Fowler and Ray. Gregory is no longer an option with the drug test and Beasely while possibly the most polished pass rusher, can't set the edge like the other two. Between Fowler and Ray, Ray is obviously the better pass rusher having a better first step and has the production to show for it. Ray's arms are long enough (33+inches) and Ray checks off a lot of the other boxes as well like character, attitude, motor and production.

On the field, Ray plays with an alpha mentality. He plays violent, chasing the ball carrier and rushing the passer like every snap is his last. Off the field, he is a little more soft spoken but still displays confidence and a team first approach. He had a troubled past but has come through it and uses it on the field. Aldon Smith who was one of Fangio's centerpiece's in SF, played a very similar role to Shane Ray in college. Both played DE and 3 tech pre-dominantly at the University of Missouri with their hand in the dirt on almost every down. Pace puts a lot more emphasis on game tape than combine numbers and when you watch each of these pass rushers, I fail to see how you cannot say that Shane Ray is the guy who stands out on tape. Other than maybe Dante Fowler, I don't think anybody checks off the boxes like Shane Ray does.

- Game tape/production - check
- Elite get off - check
- High motor - check
- Character - check
- Arm length - check

2. Where does he rank among the rest of the players at other positions?

The other thing Pace said is that he places a premium on pass rushers. You can never have enough. I am sure that Fox and Fangio agree with that statement. He said that if the pass rusher they like is on the board at #7 there is no doubt they will pick him. He also talked about the depth at the WR position which leads me to believe that in a toss up between a guy like Amari Cooper and Shane Ray...Ray will be the name called.

The Bears have 1 maybe 2 pass rushers they like and if they are there at #7 I believe they will go in that direction when you look at the coaches influence. If not, I think a guy like Amari Cooper will then become an option with our pick.
sorry we have enough outside backers/ rushers.....the bears are going defensive line in first round....we don't any who can play the nose except Rattlif....young,allen, shea, bass,mcphee. All 3-4 rush backers...only 2 can be on the field at a time so yeah I'd say no to your pick unless Shelton is gone..and he'd be the best player available.
 

Svic

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sorry we have enough outside backers/ rushers.....the bears are going defensive line in first round....we don't any who can play the nose except Rattlif....young,allen, shea, bass,mcphee. All 3-4 rush backers...only 2 can be on the field at a time so yeah I'd say no to your pick unless Shelton is gone..and he'd be the best player available.


I dont know if defensive line is a lock pick. CB, OL and WR are very high up on the list too
 

FirstTimer

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Beasley checks all the boxes you mentioned better than Ray
 

Bort

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Just watched every snap in the Florida game on youtube. Ray looked bad...

Just watched Dupree against Florida he looked even worse. The more and more i see these OLB/ DE the more i feel like we are drafting offense.

Florida had arguably the best offensive line in the country last season (although they sucked at most other positions). Florida's entire 2014 starting five OL will likely be on an NFL roster this fall.
 

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