IGT: 12/06 Oklahoma City Thunder @ Chicago Bulls 7PM CST on CSN

[houheffna]

Dude, haha, I've typed the same thing over and over and over again...

LeBron James does not have a very good post up game... Pippen did. Pippen was also a great post passer (high and low)... LeBron is not.

Obviously LeBron is the most dominant offensive player of the 2 because of his pure passing, athleticism, and finishing ability. I would never argue otherwise.

I guess I keep asking because I am trying to find validity in the statement that if Jordan and Lebron had been together in their primes in the 1990's...

With Lebron as the dominant defensive player, the Cavs had some of the better defensive teams of the decade. Lebron has also been an all league defender. I don't see how that changes with Lebron hypothetically replacing Pippen...Lebron is bigger, stronger, faster than Pippen, I don't think he would have had a hard time being a dominant defensive player.

As far as posting up, the Bulls would win with no post presence in the early 1990's. But is Lebron incapable of getting the ball to the post? No...he is very good at it. So I don't understand the issue there.

Saying that Pippen is better than Lebron in certain areas does not disqualify Lebron from being dominant in that scenario...

The argument can be made that the Bulls could have won more with Lebron, he dominated the league from day one, it took Pippen 3 or 4 years to round into form. Lebron was a killer at 18, imagine what he would have done at 20, 21 after some college! If at 22 year old Lebron comes out in 1987, the Bulls might have won it that year or at least the next. THAT Bulls team might have won 2 or 3 before the actual Bulls would have won 1 title.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I guess I keep asking because I am trying to find validity in the statement that if Jordan and Lebron had been together in their primes in the 1990's...

With Lebron as the dominant defensive player, the Cavs had some of the better defensive teams of the decade. Lebron has also been an all league defender. I don't see how that changes with Lebron hypothetically replacing Pippen...Lebron is bigger, stronger, faster than Pippen, I don't think he would have had a hard time being a dominant defensive player.

As far as posting up, the Bulls would win with no post presence in the early 1990's. But is Lebron incapable of getting the ball to the post? No...he is very good at it. So I don't understand the issue there.

Saying that Pippen is better than Lebron in certain areas does not disqualify Lebron from being dominant in that scenario...

The argument can be made that the Bulls could have won more with Lebron, he dominated the league from day one, it took Pippen 3 or 4 years to round into form. Lebron was a killer at 18, imagine what he would have done at 20, 21 after some college! If at 22 year old Lebron comes out in 1987, the Bulls might have won it that year or at least the next. THAT Bulls team might have won 2 or 3 before the actual Bulls would have won 1 title.

Well, the thing about the 'what if LeBron went to college' scenerio is that I doubt that he would have gone to college back in 1984-87 like Pippen did. LeBron was intent upon coming into the NBA (he was bound to pull a Moses Malone/KG/Kobe). I think we can both agree that, with a little college, LeBron James could have been a lot more developed player when it came to skill (shooting-stroke, post-up wise, etc.). Hell, LeBron could have been better than Jordan if he had gone to college... But that really wasn't the case.

I reallly don't take that "All-defensive first team award" very seriously at all. He was never a top perimeter defensive player in the NBA. I also don't think that the Cavs were allll that good of a defensive team... and that LeBron James was their best defensive player; I give that distrinction to Anthony Parker and even Anderson Varejao as much as James. Larry Hughes was also a good defender in the days that they went to the 2007 Finals and got killed. Mike Brown is a good defensive coach but likes to slow down the pace of the game. That is the main reason why the Cavs gave up so few points to their opponents from 2006ish-2010.

And yeah, LeBron is a great passer. He has noticeably better court vision than Pippen did. I just don't think that he would have done as well as Pippen in terms of post-play and without the ball in his hands. Jordan and Pippen were both very willing to interchange between playing with and without the ball. They were also great at the "give-and-go." I haven't seen a lot of give-and-go action from LeBron so far in his career.

 

[houheffna]

Well, the thing about the 'what if LeBron went to college' scenerio is that I doubt that he would have gone to college back in 1984-87 like Pippen did. LeBron was intent upon coming into the NBA (he was bound to pull a Moses Malone/KG/Kobe). I think we can both agree that, with a little college, LeBron James could have been a lot more developed player when it came to skill (shooting-stroke, post-up wise, etc.). Hell, LeBron could have been better than Jordan if he had gone to college... But that really wasn't the case.

I reallly don't take that "All-defensive first team award" very seriously at all. He was never a top perimeter defensive player in the NBA. I also don't think that the Cavs were allll that good of a defensive team... and that LeBron James was their best defensive player; I give that distrinction to Anthony Parker and even Anderson Varejao as much as James. Larry Hughes was also a good defender in the days that they went to the 2007 Finals and got killed. Mike Brown is a good defensive coach but likes to slow down the pace of the game. That is the main reason why the Cavs gave up so few points to their opponents from 2006ish-2010.

And yeah, LeBron is a great passer. He has noticeably better court vision than Pippen did. I just don't think that he would have done as well as Pippen in terms of post-play and without the ball in his hands. Jordan and Pippen were both very willing to interchange between playing with and without the ball. They were also great at the "give-and-go." I haven't seen a lot of give-and-go action from LeBron so far in his career.

Your arguments concerning the team defense is not at all factual. The defense was built around Lebron and his abilities. He made himself a better defender and succeeded. Do you really, reeealllllyyy think Varajao and Parker are better defenders than Lebron James? What are you watching?

As far as give and go...what is this....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFK_w4SeAu0]YouTube - [NBAD]LeBron James PRETTY Give and Go Alleyoop Vs Pistons (4.18.09)[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1ZWssTTBRE]YouTube - Bosh to LeBron for the Give-and-Go[/ame]