IGT: BULLS vs Grizzlies Wednesday December 16th @ 7:00pm on CSN

[clonetrooper264]

Also the Brooks/Rose backcourt at times. Another subtle change that seems to be working in spurts. It also helps that Brooks has found his shooting touch of late.

 

[Enasic]

I think its a combo of all three, like clone basically said.

Rose is shooting better.. his stinker was still Monday night, but he also didn't shoot alot Monday night. Niko is playing better and Taj gives the Bulls better defensive front. Niko also hasn't been playing as much late in games, which is a help.

I was commenting more on just nikos shooting. I agree that it's a combo of all 3

 

[Scoot26]

Also the Brooks/Rose backcourt at times. Another subtle change that seems to be working in spurts. It also helps that Brooks has found his shooting touch of late.

That backcourt was tested last year as well and was successful at times in the regular season. Come playoff time, it became useless, mostly thanks to Brooks disappearing. I think good defensive teams will know how to shut that down though. Also teams with tall PG's.

And yes, Memphis was a good defensive team, but they've sucked this year.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Something I also just noticed...Conley got wrecked.

 

[knoxville7]

I think it's more niko playing to his strengths. He's limiting his dribbling and taking spot up and stand still 3s. Driving with the basketball and dribbling was always his problem.

I see nikos strength as his ability to put the ball on the floor, drive it, and get fouled. he is great at drawing fouls. ive felt his problem is he takes too many 3's. he forces too many of them, when he catches and shoots in the flow of the offense he is fine. niko and jimmy are the two guys IMO that can consistently draw fouls. the thing that has helped niko is simply coming off the bench and playing against other teams bench players instead of starters

 

[Novak]

But rose is da worst PG in da league. I don see how this is possible???

 

[knoxville7]

But rose is da worst PG in da league. I don see how this is possible???

nope we are good again! lol

 

[clonetrooper264]

I see nikos strength as his ability to put the ball on the floor, drive it, and get fouled. he is great at drawing fouls. ive felt his problem is he takes too many 3's. he forces too many of them, when he catches and shoots in the flow of the offense he is fine. niko and jimmy are the two guys IMO that can consistently draw fouls. the thing that has helped niko is simply coming off the bench and playing against other teams bench players instead of starters

I don't think it's that he's taking too many 3s, but rather he's taking too many bad 3s. I have no stats to prove this right now, but it seems like when he just catches and shoots he's fine, like you said, but when he's taking 25-30 foot 3s or pump faking 6 times then shooting a bad 3 trying to draw a foul that's when he's struggling. I think playing against the bench units has also helped him, but I think the bigger factor is shot selection.

 

[knoxville7]

I don't think it's that he's taking too many 3s, but rather he's taking too many bad 3s. I have no stats to prove this right now, but it seems like when he just catches and shoots he's fine, like you said, but when he's taking 25-30 foot 3s or pump faking 6 times then shooting a bad 3 trying to draw a foul that's when he's struggling. I think playing against the bench units has also helped him, but I think the bigger factor is shot selection.

well if he is removing the "bad 3's" from his game that would equal less total 3's shot, no? lol

 

[clonetrooper264]

well if he is removing the "bad 3's" from his game that would equal less total 3's shot, no? lol

It could, but not necessarily. Let's say he takes 6 3s per game and before he was shooting 2 good 3s and 4 bad 3s. Then he instead of taking those 4 bad 3s replaces them with all good 3s. Total number stays the same, but his shot selection skyrockets.

Now that's all technicalities. In reality he probably would end up taking a couple less 3s, but imo there's a difference between volume and shot selection.

 

[knoxville7]

It could, but not necessarily. Let's say he takes 6 3s per game and before he was shooting 2 good 3s and 4 bad 3s. Then he instead of taking those 4 bad 3s replaces them with all good 3s. Total number stays the same, but his shot selection skyrockets.

Now that's all technicalities. In reality he probably would end up taking a couple less 3s, but imo there's a difference between volume and shot selection.

that's assuming he all of a sudden goes from getting 2 good looks per game to 6 good looks per game which is next to an impossible jump. I doubt he is all of a sudden going to get a bunch more good looks from 3 every game.

the reality is he is a 35% three point shooter and he is taking 5 of them per game in just 23 min per game. seems a bit high to me but then again im not a fan of just chucking 3's

especially since IMO he is so good at drawing fouls and is a good free throw shooter, I just feel he isn't playing to his true strengths

 

[clonetrooper264]

that's assuming he all of a sudden goes from getting 2 good looks per game to 6 good looks per game which is next to an impossible jump. I doubt he is all of a sudden going to get a bunch more good looks from 3 every game.

the reality is he is a 35% three point shooter and he is taking 5 of them per game in just 23 min per game. seems a bit high to me but then again im not a fan of just chucking 3's

especially since IMO he is so good at drawing fouls and is a good free throw shooter, I just feel he isn't playing to his true strengths

Yeah I went to the extreme with the example because I was trying to show that distinction. I see where you're coming from though. To me, I don't really mind him taking 6 3s if they're good shots. If he's only getting like 2-3 good looks from 3 per game, then that's what it is. I do think he perhaps would have more success replacing some 3pt attempts with post ups or other shots near the basket where he could potentially better utilize his pump fake to draw fouls, but in Hoiberg's offense I understand he may be asked to take a lot more 3s. And to me that's totally fine. He's a capable enough shooter for me to see him take 5 3s and not think anything of it. Imo, he's way better than 35%...closer to 40% and his shot selection is nuking his percentage.

Of course if you're not a fan of spraying 3s in the first place, I can see even that kind of idea being not so hot.

 

[knoxville7]

Yeah I went to the extreme with the example because I was trying to show that distinction. I see where you're coming from though. To me, I don't really mind him taking 6 3s if they're good shots. If he's only getting like 2-3 good looks from 3 per game, then that's what it is. I do think he perhaps would have more success replacing some 3pt attempts with post ups or other shots near the basket where he could potentially better utilize his pump fake to draw fouls, but in Hoiberg's offense I understand he may be asked to take a lot more 3s. And to me that's totally fine. He's a capable enough shooter for me to see him take 5 3s and not think anything of it. Imo, he's way better than 35%...closer to 40% and his shot selection is nuking his percentage.

Of course if you're not a fan of spraying 3s in the first place, I can see even that kind of idea being not so hot.

until he shoots better than 35% that's what he is from 3 :shrug:

last year he shot 3.5 free throws per game in 20 min per game. this year his min took a slight uptick to 23 per game but his free throw attempts per game are down to 2.5. now I know that's just 1 per game, but to put it in some perspective...if you look at butlers free throws per game last year it was 6.6 per game per 36 min and nikos per 36 min came in at 6.2 per game. the reason I point that out is we all would agree one of butlers strengths is his ability to get to the line, well niko showed that same ability last year and it hasn't been there near as much this year. im sure the style of offense they are in is a huge reason why, but that's why again I feel with our current roster we are playing the wrong style

 

[Enasic]

I see nikos strength as his ability to put the ball on the floor, drive it, and get fouled. he is great at drawing fouls. ive felt his problem is he takes too many 3's. he forces too many of them, when he catches and shoots in the flow of the offense he is fine. niko and jimmy are the two guys IMO that can consistently draw fouls. the thing that has helped niko is simply coming off the bench and playing against other teams bench players instead of starters

I completely disagree with the bolded. If I were coaching the opposing team I would want Niko to put the ball on the floor. He was great at drawing fouls last year and that was because guys were falling for his pump fake. Between guys watching tape of him and Niko basically abandoning the pump fake, he's not good at getting to the line anymore. Niko's pretty bad when he puts the ball on the floor and drives the lane.

But rose is da worst PG in da league. I don see how this is possible???

Rose had a respectable game. Not even a great game but something that resembled a starting caliber PG. Serve that crow Novak. I guess this is what its come to.

 

[clonetrooper264]

until he shoots better than 35% that's what he is from 3 :shrug:

last year he shot 3.5 free throws per game in 20 min per game. this year his min took a slight uptick to 23 per game but his free throw attempts per game are down to 2.5. now I know that's just 1 per game, but to put it in some perspective...if you look at butlers free throws per game last year it was 6.6 per game per 36 min and nikos per 36 min came in at 6.2 per game. the reason I point that out is we all would agree one of butlers strengths is his ability to get to the line, well niko showed that same ability last year and it hasn't been there near as much this year. im sure the style of offense they are in is a huge reason why, but that's why again I feel with our current roster we are playing the wrong style

What you said does have truth to it, and I'm not discounting that. Another factor in the less FTAs is people are falling for his pump fakes anymore. Everyone and their mom knows he's going to fake so he's not getting those types of fouls anymore.

 

[Axl Rose]

But rose is da worst PG in da league. I don see how this is possible???

it'll take more than one good game to fix that 9 PER

for a guy that doesn't play any defense that is bad. real bad.

 

[knoxville7]

What you said does have truth to it, and I'm not discounting that. Another factor in the less FTAs is people are falling for his pump fakes anymore. Everyone and their mom knows he's going to fake so he's not getting those types of fouls anymore.

im sure the pump fake thing has merit to it. but maybe a part of it is due to the other teams knowing we are playing hoiball and figuring the 3's are coming. who the hell knows really I guess. I have just always believed in inside out basketball and getting the best look at the basket possible. to me that's the best route for success, unless you have two of the greatest shooters of all time on your roster like Curry and Thompson

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

4-0 since taking off the mask. 3-0 since getting his hair buzzed. Shooting percentages are way up. Taj in the starting lineup. Niko learning to shoot again coming off the bench. Idk what's the biggest factor, but I'll take it.

No real second half slowdown in either quarter. They put the foot on the Grizzlies in the third quarter.

 

[Enasic]

it'll take more than one good game to fix that 9 PER

for a guy that doesn't play any defense that is bad, real bad.

The funny thing is, it wasn't even a great game for anyone to be boasting about. 19 points on 19 shots. 5 assists, 3 turnovers. That's pretty "meh" from your starting PG. Either way, we've seen Rose have good games these last two years. Can he be consistent over the next 60 games? I'll take these performances if they happen regularly and not just on prime time. Rose has answered the question that he could put together a great game every now and then, like against OKC and a handful last season. What he hasn't answered, is if he could play like he gives a shit every game, and produce consistent results. Like you said, it's going to take a lot of games for his metrics to resemble an even decent player.

 

[clonetrooper264]

im sure the pump fake thing has merit to it. but maybe a part of it is due to the other teams knowing we are playing hoiball and figuring the 3's are coming. who the hell knows really I guess. I have just always believed in inside out basketball and getting the best look at the basket possible. to me that's the best route for success, unless you have two of the greatest shooters of all time on your roster like Curry and Thompson

Perhaps, perhaps not. While every team doesn't have the Splash Bros, the league is moving more towards that 3pt line. The Spurs also shoot and make a bunch of 3s and they don't have anyone near the caliber of Steph or Klay (though Leonard is shooting a ridiculous percentage right now). And that's not all done by throwing it into Tim Duncan and having him kick it out to shooters. In fact, Duncan is not even averaging 10 points per game right now I believe. Pretty much, the game has evolved past that old school pound it inside and go from there approach. Now whether or not this team is equipped to go with that flow is another question entirely.