IGT October 31st (Happy Halloween!) Predators @ Blackhawks!

[Captain Iago]

Seabrook gets run by Torres, Brouwer takes an elbow from Edler, Smith takes a knee from Torres...all with Scott in the lineup. Scott drops the goves with Glass, nothing happens because Glass doesn't drop his.

The Bs series changed when Horton took that hit. Thornton can actually play the game of hockey and an effective shift. Scott and Thornton can't even be compared, the difference in their on ice abilities is shocking.

Edit: thornton put up 20 pts last year, I doubt Scott puts that up in his career. A 20 pt 4th liner who can play the game of hockey is a great asset to any team. Comparing/putting those two in the same class is ridiculous. Thornton is not a goon, rather a player like Mayers/Carcillo/Eager/Burish who can play the game of hockey while mixing it up.

Torres's hit is not the kind of nonsense I'm talking about. Edler's is closer to what I'm talking about. What was the score when that happened? Oh yeah, 5-nil, just as I mentioned before. That's a result of being completely embarrassed and frustrated. You really didn't see the runs and liberties they were taking in those first two games? Really? The Scott hatred has made you blind.

Thornton was already in the lineup for game 3, when Horton was hit. Oh, and how could the Bs ever have a chance of winning that game having lost a guy who plays such important top line minutes so early in the game? How did those other guys have the wind to even show up for the 3rd, let alone have the gas to score 8 the entire game having been double shifted so mercilessly by Julien to make up for all of those minutes that had to be replaced?!??

While Thornton is a better skater/player than Scott, they're exactly in the same class - BAMFs.

 

[HawkWriter]

Torres's hit is not the kind of nonsense I'm talking about. Edler's is closer to what I'm talking about. What was the score when that happened? Oh yeah, 5-nil, just as I mentioned before. That's a result of being completely embarrassed and frustrated. You really didn't see the runs and liberties they were taking in those first two games? Really? The Scott hatred has made you blind.

Thornton was already in the lineup for game 3, when Horton was hit. Oh, and how could the Bs ever have a chance of winning that game having lost a guy who plays such important top line minutes so early in the game? How did those other guys have the wind to even show up for the 3rd, let alone have the gas to score 8 the entire game having been double shifted so mercilessly by Julien to make up for all of those minutes that had to be replaced?!??

While Thornton is a better skater/player than Scott, they're exactly in the same class - BAMFs.

We are going to disagree until blue in the face.

Thornton is a hockey player and Scott a boxer on skates. They aren't even comparable.

Scott is comparable to a Koci/Stortini...and how are those guys doing lately?

So my Scott hatred has made me blind? Think it could be your love of him that has made you? Or is it not a two way street?

 

[Captain Iago]

We are going to disagree until blue in the face.

Thornton is a hockey player and Scott a boxer on skates. They aren't even comparable.

Scott is comparable to a Koci/Stortini...and how are those guys doing lately?

So my Scott hatred has made me blind? Think it could be your love of him that has made you? Or is it not a two way street?

I suppose we will disagree until blue in the face.

How has my "love" for him blinded me? I've freely admitted earlier that there are opponents whom he ought not dress against for the betterment of the team. I certainly wouldn't believe that If I was blinded by love - isn't that a Stones song? Hah.

 

[southern_cross_116]

When the Hawks won the Cup they had one of the best 4th lines in the league during the playoffs- Burish/Madden/Eager. That line could skate, forecheck, pop a few in, play their roles, stick up for teammates, and take a very effective regular shift. Not to mention play 8 minutes a night which is big over the grind of a season/playoffs. Mayers and Kruger are great right now, obviously I'm not a fan of Scott.

Last year the Blackhawks were missing a 4th line that knew their role and did it effectively. I think that was a reason for the down year. 8 minutes doesn't seem like a lot, but I don't think it is a coincidence that we won the Cup with a great 4th line.

Lack of a 4th Line? I think it was being pigeon-holed into having to play Boynton and Cullimore on defense, moreso, and not having any flexibility on depth when a guy would go down.

I can take or leave Johnny, although I am sure if I had the ability to watch more of the games I would maybe have a more in depth opinion.

Eager/Burish I could take or leave -but will say this -they are both overpaid by their current teams, and I think Eager's "offensive ability" and Burish's "toughness" of late have been oversold. Burish will yap and then hide. Eager? well he can lose a game with selfish penalties (and did right before Atlanta dealt him to San Jose last season). I don't get why some people have such a high opinion of Eager...

If I was blinded by love - isn't that a Stones song?

Is it? Man, I'm getting on ... and after Googling it -man am I *really* getting on --- not only is it - it was from the Steel Wheels album and I saw them on that tour up at Alpine Valley --- go figure.

 

[HawkWriter]

Lack of a 4th Line? I think it was being pigeon-holed into having to play Boynton and Cullimore on defense, moreso, and not having any flexibility on depth when a guy would go down.

I can take or leave Johnny, although I am sure if I had the ability to watch more of the games I would maybe have a more in depth opinion.

Eager/Burish I could take or leave -but will say this -they are both overpaid by their current teams, and I think Eager's "offensive ability" and Burish's "toughness" of late have been oversold. Burish will yap and then hide. Eager? well he can lose a game with selfish penalties (and did right before Atlanta dealt him to San Jose last season). I don't get why some people have such a high opinion of Eager...

Obviously there were more problems than just the 4th line last year, but I think it is one worth noting and talking about. Depth overall probably was the biggest concern and the 4th line/3rd D pairing fit into that.

To me the 4th line has a bigger effect than just a solid 8 minutes. When the Blackhawks had Burish/Madden/Eager, they would put that 4th line out against a 2nd or 3rd line regularly. That would allow our 2nd or 3rd line to get a mismatch down the line when the other team's 4th line came out. Also, I have to believe with Burish/Eager forechecking it wore out those teams more than a Scott could. Burish and Eager are two of the best skating 4th liners in the league today. While I completely agree that both are overpaid, players like Burish/Eager on the 4th line certainly aren't a dime a dozen. Eager was drafted in the first round for a reason and he shows offensive flashes of that at times. He has become very undisciplined (especially in that San Jose vs Vancouver series last year) but he is one of the best skaters/forecheckers/offensive guys a 4th line could ask for. Burish is definitely more of a talker than a doer, but he is effective and can keep up with any line with his foot speed. If you can get 15ish pts out of each 4th liner and have them be a + in the +/- column that is extremely valuable.

 

[Everyday I'm Byfuglien]

Yeah Eager was undisciplined in the western finals last year - especially that game 4 disaster- but I still liked what he did. He played his ass off and tried everything he was capable of to get his team going. Didnt he even score a dirty goal in luongos crease? I think it was pretty much in garbage time but that still counts.

His team and his goalie let him down in that game. Joey T was supposedly hurt, but nobody else matched Eagers fight in that game. Niemi was bad that whole series with the exception of one game. Yuck. Eager clearly remembered how the Canucks came unglued in the past series' against the Hawks and he tried to duplicate that when his team was against the wall.

Eager can be an effective dude.

As for the John Scott debate.. I can easily go either way on that one. You both have valid points.

 

[southern_cross_116]

Obviously there were more problems than just the 4th line last year, but I think it is one worth noting and talking about. Depth overall probably was the biggest concern and the 4th line/3rd D pairing fit into that.

To me the 4th line has a bigger effect than just a solid 8 minutes. When the Blackhawks had Burish/Madden/Eager, they would put that 4th line out against a 2nd or 3rd line regularly. That would allow our 2nd or 3rd line to get a mismatch down the line when the other team's 4th line came out. Also, I have to believe with Burish/Eager forechecking it wore out those teams more than a Scott could. Burish and Eager are two of the best skating 4th liners in the league today. While I completely agree that both are overpaid, players like Burish/Eager on the 4th line certainly aren't a dime a dozen. Eager was drafted in the first round for a reason and he shows offensive flashes of that at times. He has become very undisciplined (especially in that San Jose vs Vancouver series last year) but he is one of the best skaters/forecheckers/offensive guys a 4th line could ask for. Burish is definitely more of a talker than a doer, but he is effective and can keep up with any line with his foot speed. If you can get 15ish pts out of each 4th liner and have them be a + in the +/- column that is extremely valuable.

I don't think that line actually played together than much during the season -due mostly to the injuries to Bolland and Burish - with Bolland's injury having the effect of making Madden stand in for 3rd line center. . . which isn't to disagree with your comment on effectiveness.

In my mind, though, (and this has nothing to do with 32), a 4th line is a checking line, and talking points as production isn't as relevant as talking ice time that creates mismatches. Leastwise in a perfect world it is a checking line that is there not so much to score (you can only do so much with 4th time ice time), but keep the other team's chances to a minimum. It isn't particularly flashy, but it can win games. Although in thinking about it - if the Hawk's 4th line is skating against the other teams' 2 or 3 lines- doesn't that also mean that the other team's 4th line is doing the same to the Hawks? (Or potentially they don't use a 4th line and it is a moot point). I suppose at that point it becomes one of talent disparity -and you need a solid 3 line. Ok, the stream of conciousness thing with regards to line combinations (especially ones 2 years ago), isn't going to work too well as there are too many variables even within a specific team (such as injuries, etc). Unfortunately having a history background I think I tend to be hardwired into thinking like that :/

Anyways -good point about the match ups. I do appreciate the comments. :beerbang: