In Retrospect: Was the tear down really necessary?

[jive]

Looking at the sorry state of the Bears 3 years into Poles' tenure, I'm wondering if the teardown of 2022 was really necessary. Especially considering how ineffective Poles has been in replacing players.

Even with their short comings, I thought that Mack still had gas in the tank and that Roquan was still someone you could build a defense around. Mack was a huge cap hit, and it made sense to lose the contract and gain draft capital. However, he never drafted a premium pass rusher and instead spent a 2nd round pick on Sweat and signed him to a 90 mil deal only for him to perform worse than Mack. Roquan isn't perfect, but he's more effective than Edmunds for around the same price and was a locker room leader for the Bears. Quinn was long in the tooth and expensive, so I could see why he'd be traded, but he may have had another season or two of effectiveness after a record breaking season.

Poles also failed to resign Mooney, Monty, and Daniels. At the time it made sense to let them find greener pastures. But looking back Keenan Allen isn't any better than Mooney for the cost of a 4th and probably a more expensive contract to extend him. Mooney was definitely more effective than Claypool and didn't cost a 2nd. Poles still hasn't found a G as good as Daniels, and Daniels wasn't a world beater. Swift doesn't run well between the tackles and can't overcome a bad line any better than Monty. He does have better big play ability though.

We can see that the 3 years of rebuilding has taken a toll on the locker room. You can see how demoralized they were in 2022, energized a little in 2023, and how it's all fallen apart in 2024.

In retrospect, it looks like Poles was eager to recreate the Bears in his image, but he just wasn't experienced or knowledgeable to do it effectively. Instead of keeping leaders of the locker room and building around them, he wanted new pieces to build around. Maybe the Bears needed a tear down and rebuild, but Poles wasn't the guy to do it. We're just as bad or worse than when Poles took the job.

 

[Frigidus]

We were well over the cap and had been adding void years to contracts in order to make everything fit together. Capwise the team was in win now mode while we were sitting on a team that was built to get bumped in the first round of the playoffs. We could have stuck with what we had, but it would have meant not signing any big name talent.

I don't think the teardown was the issue as much as what we did with our cap and draft capital

 

[Username]

As I've said, Poles most ignorant mistake was burning this team down at both ends.

 

[PrideisBears]

This is why I **** with you Jive, you ask the real questions

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Yes. Yes it was.

 

[jsu34]

Good question. I believe it was required, but the question is whether it was done correctly, meaning, once it was torn down was the roster built correctly?

 

[Chicago Staleys]

It was required but, as of right now, Poles just fucked it up.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

I mean I guess they could've clung to a bad team with an awful cap situation. Tearing things down was the right choice though

 

[94c4lt1]

Necessary, no. However, the tear down and rebuild process seems to be a better approach if the goal is long term viability. This is an interesting thought experiment, but what isn't taken into consideration is whether having those veterans still on the team would have resulted in more wins (and thus worse draft pick position). Part of the tanking and rebuilding process is cleaning up cap space, sure, but the other part is backfilling those positions with blue chip draft prospects. You're more likely to get opportunities for those players with a better draft position - hence why teams can get mired in mediocrity.

However, where the Bears have failed is in the execution and successful acquisition of talent. They haven't drafted those 'blue chip' players (maybe CWill?) and Poles' FA signings have been abysmal. If you don't draft well and don't target the right free agents, it doesn't matter what method you use. The team is doomed to failure.

 

[mecha]

We were well over the cap and had been adding void years to contracts in order to make everything fit together. Capwise the team was in win now mode while we were sitting on a team that was built to get bumped in the first round of the playoffs. We could have stuck with what we had, but it would have meant not signing any big name talent.

I don't think the teardown was the issue as much as what we did with our cap and draft capital

the teardown I think was necessary due to the cap hell/no draft capital situation that Pace put the team in, yes.

people here have said cutting the weight was the easy component of Poles' job. knowing what we know now it looks like that was accurate. the cuts were needed for the team to progress. the personnel decisions have resulted in something capable of being passably decent, just not 'big splash' worthy. Poles has apparently been bad at FA and meh whatever at drafting up to this point. it would be textbook insanity to keep it going like this. I'm not a fan of blowing the team up every 4 years because that's how you become the Raiders, and we all know the real problem is stemming from the top and Ginny's immortality isn't going to let that change anytime soon. I haven't decided on a new team yet.

 

[bamainatlanta]

Tear down was 100% absolutely necessary. This isn’t even a question. Mack is not someone that can be built around and he wasn’t at that time either. You also don’t build your team around an off the ball linebacker too.

 

[Payton34Sayers40]

Something that needs to be taken into consideration in all of this Poles analysis that is taking place — the coach.

If Poles was essentially handcuffed by George and Bill Polian in who he picked as coach (Flus), then we really don’t know how good this roster really is. There have been lots of winnable games that Flus has blown pretty much all by himself. With a quality HC, this team had the potential to be in the playoffs last year and this year. If that would have happened, instead of running him out of town we would be handing Poles keys to the city.

 

[Forty-six]

Part of the tanking and rebuilding process is cleaning up cap space, sure, but the other part is backfilling those positions with blue chip draft prospects.

However, where the Bears have failed is in the execution and successful acquisition of talent. They haven't drafted those 'blue chip' players

I agree with this. In the modern NFL you need to get really bad to get really good. The Bears were mediocre before the tear down with an awful cap situation and almost no draft capital. That team was going nowhere. To escape that situation Poles blew it up which I think was the right move. Poles has fixed the cap and he's done a great job of acquiring draft picks. His greatest failures are hiring Flus and then retaining him beyond year 2 and not really hitting with his draft picks. Caleb could be elite one day and I think Rome will eventually be a top 10 WR but everything else is suspect.

 

[94c4lt1]

If Poles was essentially handcuffed by George and Bill Polian in who he picked as coach (Flus), then we really don’t know how good this roster really is. There have been lots of winnable games that Flus has blown pretty much all by himself. With a quality HC, this team had the potential to be in the playoffs last year and this year. If that would have happened, instead of running him out of town we would be handing Poles keys to the city.

Poles could've moved on from Flus at the end of last season. Unless you ascribe to the theory that he was handcuffed there as well.

 

[jive]

We were well over the cap and had been adding void years to contracts in order to make everything fit together. Capwise the team was in win now mode while we were sitting on a team that was built to get bumped in the first round of the playoffs. We could have stuck with what we had, but it would have meant not signing any big name talent.

I don't think the teardown was the issue as much as what we did with our cap and draft capital

At the time, I thought the tear down was needed but considering how that draft capital and cap space was misspent, I have some doubts.
Montez Sweat and Khalil Mack have the same cap hit of 25 mil this year. Poles has one year of cap savings from signing Sweat, and then is on the hook for 20+ mil a year. We didn't net a gain a draft pick for Mack since we had to spend a 2nd round pick for Sweat.

Roquan has a cap hit of around $9 mil for 2023 and 2024. Edmunds has a cap hit of $14 mil and $22 mil. We saved money for one year, and then overpaid for subsequent years for less production.

Nate Davis carries the same cap hit as James Daniels, and isn't on the team any more. Keenan Allen has a cap hit of $23 mil this year, way more than Mooney.

We are not in cap trouble like before, but we also don't have top talent either. I'd rather have a winning team than cap space.

 

[Bears_804]

I'm leaning towards this being mishandled by Pace at key moments. Starting to lean towards not really caring if they cut him loose and get a new GM/HC pairing. My thoughts watching this season wonder if the resources we placed in other areas should have been more focused on DL and OL with mid-level WR talent. You would have still had DJ Moore in that trade with the Panthers, but instead of adding some of the offensive weapons, the trenches should have gotten more proper attention. This may have significantly altered how things are going. The argument could be made for either side of this question. I agree where other posters said blowing it up for the long term viability was probably the correct choice. In pure Bears fashion, you can look at many points prior to the rebuild and during the rebuild that they just missed the mark (once again) in obvious areas fans keep screaming about year after year.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

At the time, I thought the tear down was needed but considering how that draft capital and cap space was misspent, I have some doubts.
Montez Sweat and Khalil Mack have the same cap hit of 25 mil this year. Poles has one year of cap savings from signing Sweat, and then is on the hook for 20+ mil a year. We didn't net a gain a draft pick for Mack since we had to spend a 2nd round pick for Sweat.

Roquan has a cap hit of around $9 mil for 2023 and 2024. Edmunds has a cap hit of $14 mil and $22 mil. We saved money for one year, and then overpaid for subsequent years for less production.

Nate Davis carries the same cap hit as James Daniels, and isn't on the team any more. Keenan Allen has a cap hit of $23 mil this year, way more than Mooney.

We are not in cap trouble like before, but we also don't have top talent either. I'd rather have a winning team than cap space.

You wouldn't have a winning team though. That team was also atrocious and had no cap space to add talent and minimal draft capital to make bad picks with.

 

[tcmtrinity]

At the time when he was dismantling the Bears I was 100% pro Poles for doing so. The assumption was that given his background as an OL he would recognize the importance of building the team solidly from the inside out, replace overpriced pieces, and maneuver towards getting a franchise QB. He got the QB but neglected the area that should have been his key area of competence. He went for the flashy while neglecting the Grabowskis. And they look like a steaming pile of crap. His epitaph will read No Team Had Done SO Little With So Much (just in the wrong places).

 

[Toast88]

The teardown was necessary, but it wasn't handled well.


The point of a teardown is to shed bloated contracts for players who simply aren't worth the cap hit relative to your overall roster build, while adding players whose contracts are equal to or less than their value, building a solid, cohesive, somewhat balanced team.

Poles did the first part, but not the second. In fact, he did the opposite.

List A:

Montez Sweat: $25M
Keenan Allen: $23M
Tremaine Edmunds: $22M
Jaylon Johnson: $13M
Cole Kmet: $11.6M
DeMarcus Walker: $9M
TJ Edwards: $8M
DJ Moore: $7M
Caleb Williams: $7M
Kevin Byard: $7M

$132 million for your top 10 cap hits.


List B:

Allen Robinson: $18M
Akiem Hicks: $12M
Robert Quinn: $11M
Eddie Goldman: $8M
Nick Foles: $7M
Roquan Smith: $6M
Jimmy Graham: $5M
Cody Whitehair: $5M
Eddie Jackson: $5M
Andy Dalton: $5M

$82 million for your top 10 cap hits.


So basically, you spent $50 million more dollars to get one-third of the number of wins (2 vs. 6).

 

[RiDLer80]

I think it was necessary because that version of the Bears was not ready, or able to win. But, hindsight shows that he went about it wrong for a number of different reasons:

1. He let young guys walk who would theoretically still be in their primes when we're ready to compete. Guys like Monty, Roquon, Mooney and Daniels. All young and in their prime NOW who would be ready to make an impact in our "win-now" window.

2. He got rid of locker room leaders and failed to replace them. This team lacks leadership. We have some good players, but there doesn't seem to be any glue guys on the roster. Talented players yes, but not guys to bring it all together.

3. Not seeing talent upgrades for the guys we let go. OP mentioned it, but Claypool and Keenan Allen, for the compensation we used to bring them in aren't worth more than Mooney. Monty is better than both Swift and Roschon. Edmunds has been disappointing. Daniels hole still hasn't been filled.

4. He's failed to build inside out. I think we all can agree that both lines are no better, if not worse, than they were when Poles took over.