Is ADHD a Fictional Disease?

MassHavoc

Moderator
Staff member
Joined:
May 14, 2010
Posts:
17,855
Liked Posts:
2,554
http://www.themarkne...ctional-disease



Very interesting, and I thought it would be fun to throw some new debatable stuff up there... Me personally. I think it may be real to a point for a very small portion of the population, and it's not being used as a crutch or reason for shitty parenting. And yes, I do say this without having kids of my own.
 

MassHavoc

Moderator
Staff member
Joined:
May 14, 2010
Posts:
17,855
Liked Posts:
2,554
I also wanted to post this comment from a well know Fark poster which is where I originally got this from. It has many interesting points in it, and he/she is usually spot on with comments. I'm not sure how I feel about a lot of it, but some interesting things to debate in here.



Pocket Ninja: ADD is most certainly real, and very likely linked to the same sorts of early trauma that can cause autism, i.e. excessive vaccines that chemically and emotionally scar infants. Another example of early childhood trauma that can scar infants is circumcision, and numerous studies may in the future show indisputable links between parents the mutilations caused by this barbaric practice and later ADD diagnoses.



Other possible factors include children being forced to breastfeed in public. Mothers who simply want an excuse to whip out their boobs in public may be traumatizing their children and causing them to become attention deficit. Bringing children on airplanes, too, in addition to being a clear sign of bad parenting that should require immediate Social Services intervention and/or imprisonment, could conceivably cause significant inner ear disruptions that result in ADD.



There are other possible factors as well. Some might suggest a higher incidence of ADD among the children of atheists, who themselves have unsettled minds unable to focus on a single belief system. Choosing a non-standard name, like anything with "ayden" in it or something too ethnic, can also cause children to retreat into their own minds and lose their ability to focus. Exposing children to unhealthy environments, like (for example) letting them sit on bar stools, is also a very likely cause.



The bottom line is that there are probably many root causes of ADD. This does not mean it's not real.
 

winos5

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Oct 19, 2013
Posts:
7,956
Liked Posts:
829
Location:
Wish You Were Here
http://www.themarkne...ctional-disease



Very interesting, and I thought it would be fun to throw some new debatable stuff up there... Me personally. I think it may be real to a point for a very small portion of the population, and it's not being used as a crutch or reason for shitty parenting. And yes, I do say this without having kids of my own.



I understand his argument to an extent, but ultimately disagree. There is no doubt that ADD/ADHD and adult ADD/ADHD are surely overdiagnosed/misdiagnosed and over treated. His main arguments seems based on semantics and your definition of disease compared to that of psychiatric pathology. Based on his disdain for all psychiatric diagnoses I guess he feels Bi-polar disorder, major depression, schizophrenia and autism are totally bogus as well? I think he's a bit over board in his zeal to condemn treatment of ADD/ADHD and/or psychiatry in it's entirety.



For the record I have a child with ADD that has benifited from therapy. I'd like to think there is no lack of parenting or discipline in our family. I'm also a practicing medical professional so I'm infact very biased, but apparently so is the author of that article preaching from his ivory tower of "physical medicine".



Rant off
 

TSD

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
May 14, 2010
Posts:
5,014
Liked Posts:
4
Location:
Plainfield, IL
I personally think it is, or at least way over diagnosed, because theres no good way to determine if a kid has it. my mom gave me an article about it that listed off the symptoms for ADD, and we both realized we had ALL of them. The following describes me to a fucking tee, and I manage to function in society without feeling like i am handicapped in some way. so apparently because I am cluttery and unorganized, and find shit that isnt interesting to me fucking boring as shit and dont pay attention i have ADHD. **** this crap. i especially like this part, primarily the bolded, but the others apply as well:



have poor self-control

blurt out thoughts that are rude or inappropriate without thinking

have addictive tendencies

act recklessly or spontaneously without regard for consequences

have trouble behaving in socially appropriate ways (such as sitting still during a long meeting)




and here I thought the above was just part of my winning personality, IM SICK I TELLS YA! GIVE ME PILLS!







Common adult ADD / ADHD symptoms: Trouble concentrating and staying focused

Adults with ADD/ADHD often have difficulty staying focused and attending to daily, mundane tasks. For example, you may be easily distracted by irrelevant sights and sounds, quickly bounce from one activity to another, or become bored quickly. Symptoms in this category are sometimes overlooked because they are less outwardly disruptive than the ADD/ADHD symptoms of hyperactivity and impulsivity—but they can be every bit as troublesome. The symptoms of inattention and concentration difficulties include:



“zoning out” without realizing it, even in the middle of a conversation.

extreme distractibility; wandering attention makes it hard to stay on track.

difficulty paying attention or focusing, such as when reading or listening to others.

struggling to complete tasks, even ones that seem simple.

tendency to overlook details, leading to errors or incomplete work.

poor listening skills; hard time remembering conversations and following directions.

Common adult ADD / ADHD symptoms: Hyperfocus

While you’re probably aware that people with ADD/ADHD have trouble focusing on tasks that aren’t interesting to them, you may not know that there’s another side: a tendency to become absorbed in tasks that are stimulating and rewarding. This paradoxical symptom is called hyperfocus.



Hyperfocus is actually a coping mechanism for distraction—a way of tuning out the chaos. It can be so strong that you become oblivious to everything going on around you. For example, you may be so engrossed in a book, a TV show, or your computer that you completely lose track of time and neglect the things you’re supposed to be doing. Hyperfocus can be an asset when channeled into productive activities, but it can also lead to work and relationship problems if left unchecked.



Common adult ADD / ADHD symptoms: Disorganization and forgetfulness

When you have adult ADD/ADHD, life often seems chaotic and out of control. Staying organized and on top of things can be extremely challenging—as is sorting out what information is relevant for the task at hand, prioritizing the things you need to do, keeping track of tasks and responsibilities, and managing your time. Common symptoms of disorganization and forgetfulness include:



poor organizational skills (home, office, desk, or car is extremely messy and cluttered)

tendency to procrastinate

trouble starting and finishing projects

chronic lateness

frequently forgetting appointments, commitments, and deadlines

constantly losing or misplacing things (keys, wallet, phone, documents, bills)

underestimating the time it will take you to complete tasks

Common adult ADD / ADHD symptoms: Impulsivity

If you suffer from symptoms in this category, you may have trouble inhibiting your behaviors, comments, and responses. You might act before thinking, or react without considering consequences. You may find yourself interrupting others, blurting out comments, and rushing through tasks without reading instructions. If you have impulse problems, being patient is extremely difficult. For better or for worse, you may go headlong into situations and find yourself in potentially risky circumstances. You may struggle with controlling impulses if you:



frequently interrupt others or talk over them

have poor self-control

blurt out thoughts that are rude or inappropriate without thinking

have addictive tendencies

act recklessly or spontaneously without regard for consequences

have trouble behaving in socially appropriate ways (such as sitting still during a long meeting)

Common adult ADD / ADHD symptoms: Emotional difficulties

Many adults with ADD/ADHD have a hard time managing their feelings, especially when it comes to emotions like anger or frustration. Common emotional symptoms of adult ADD/ADHD include:



sense of underachievement

doesn’t deal well with frustration

easily flustered and stressed out

irritability or mood swings

trouble staying motivated

hypersensitivity to criticism

short, often explosive, temper

low self-esteem and sense of insecurity



Common adult ADD / ADHD symptoms: Hyperactivity or restlessness

Hyperactivity in adults with ADD/ADHD can look the same as it does in kids. You may be highly energetic and perpetually “on the go” as if driven by a motor. For many people with ADD/ADHD, however, the symptoms of hyperactivity become more subtle and internal as they grow older. Common symptoms of hyperactivity in adults include:



feelings of inner restlessness, agitation

tendency to take risks

getting bored easily

racing thoughts

trouble sitting still; constant fidgeting

craving for excitement

talking excessively

doing a million things at once
 

winos5

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Oct 19, 2013
Posts:
7,956
Liked Posts:
829
Location:
Wish You Were Here
I also wanted to post this comment from a well know Fark poster which is where I originally got this from. It has many interesting points in it, and he/she is usually spot on with comments. I'm not sure how I feel about a lot of it, but some interesting things to debate in here.



Pocket Ninja: ADD is most certainly real, and very likely linked to the same sorts of early trauma that can cause autism, i.e. excessive vaccines that chemically and emotionally scar infants. Another example of early childhood trauma that can scar infants is circumcision, and numerous studies may in the future show indisputable links between parents the mutilations caused by this barbaric practice and later ADD diagnoses.



Other possible factors include children being forced to breastfeed in public. Mothers who simply want an excuse to whip out their boobs in public may be traumatizing their children and causing them to become attention deficit. Bringing children on airplanes, too, in addition to being a clear sign of bad parenting that should require immediate Social Services intervention and/or imprisonment, could conceivably cause significant inner ear disruptions that result in ADD.



There are other possible factors as well. Some might suggest a higher incidence of ADD among the children of atheists, who themselves have unsettled minds unable to focus on a single belief system. Choosing a non-standard name, like anything with "ayden" in it or something too ethnic, can also cause children to retreat into their own minds and lose their ability to focus. Exposing children to unhealthy environments, like (for example) letting them sit on bar stools, is also a very likely cause.



The bottom line is that there are probably many root causes of ADD. This does not mean it's not real.



From a medical point of view this is the kind medical advice you should avoid IMO.



1) There is no science linking childhood vaccines to autism or ADD/ADHD. The study behind that has been proven to be a fraud. Cooked patients, cooked data and cooked outcomes. The British MD that authored the study has lost his UK medical license. He apparently was funded by (this may shock you) .......





Malpractice lawyers......





to produce a study linking vaccines to autism so they could sue pharmaceutical companies.



2) While circumcision is unecassary, trying to link it to ADD/ADHD is assinine.



3) His comments regarding nursing and religion are just fucking unbelievably stupid and not worth the effort to respond to them.
 

TSD

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
May 14, 2010
Posts:
5,014
Liked Posts:
4
Location:
Plainfield, IL
From a medical point of view this is the kind medical advice you should avoid IMO.



1) There is no science linking childhood vaccines to autism or ADD/ADHD. The study behind that has been proven to be a fraud. Cooked patients, cooked data and cooked outcomes. The British MD that authored the study has lost his UK medical license. He apparently was funded by (this may shock you) .......





Malpractice lawyers......





to produce a study linking vaccines to autism so they could sue pharmaceutical companies.



2) While circumcision is unecassary, trying to link it to ADD/ADHD is assinine.



3) His comments regarding nursing and religion are just fucking unbelievably stupid and not worth the effort to respond to them.



the penn and tellers bullshit on that was great. People are so fucking stupid, you dont get autism your are fucking born with it. I think people fail to realize in the past autism just wasn't diagnosed especially the high functioning variety, and think there has to be a reason from increasing autism cases over the years. You can say that about something like heart disease, they didnt know what a heart attack was so they didnt diagnose it.



But seriously, I laughed throughout that "pocket ninja" article. children of atheists will be add because their parents cant focus on a belief system, lol.



choosing a name thats too ethnic? LOL. so everyone without an anglo sized name (since I am assuming this person is North American) is more apt to develop ADD HIYOOOO!!!





Seeing as ADD generally sites chemical imbalances as being the root cause of the symptoms. I dont think having an "ethnic name" or your parents being atheists can alter that.
 

BigPete

New member
Joined:
May 15, 2010
Posts:
5,010
Liked Posts:
0
Location:
Belleville, IL
Common adult ADD / ADHD symptoms: Trouble concentrating and staying focused

Adults with ADD/ADHD often have difficulty staying focused and attending to daily, mundane tasks. For example, you may be easily distracted by irrelevant sights and sounds, quickly bounce from one activity to another, or become bored quickly. Symptoms in this category are sometimes overlooked because they are less outwardly disruptive than the ADD/ADHD symptoms of hyperactivity and impulsivity—but they can be every bit as troublesome.

And this is why I am a shitty student. Although, I am educated, well spoken - articulate even, and I have no problem getting passing grades and holding down an important job where communication both written and verbal are extremely important.



When I was a kid in the early 80s I was tested for learning disabilities. They found no issues. I was not tested for attention deficit disorder. Makes you wonder why I struggle with school.....hmmmmmmmm.
 

TSD

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
May 14, 2010
Posts:
5,014
Liked Posts:
4
Location:
Plainfield, IL
And this is why I am a shitty student. Although, I am educated, well spoken - articulate even, and I have no problem getting passing grades and holding down an important job where communication both written and verbal are extremely important.



When I was a kid in the early 80s I was tested for learning disabilities. They found no issues. I was not tested for attention deficit disorder. Makes you wonder why I struggle with school.....hmmmmmmmm.





I didnt struggle in highschool, because of the structure. in college though, I couldnt motivate myself for shit i didnt care about, my effort level clearly went with my interests, i had failed classes in college, and people had to wonder why I would get an A in 2 classes the a C D and F in the others. The problem is, i think alot of this behavior is more the rule to me than the exception. Once I kicked myself in the ass when I had to repeat a course I could do it.
 

MassHavoc

Moderator
Staff member
Joined:
May 14, 2010
Posts:
17,855
Liked Posts:
2,554
Wino, I think I am with you along the lines of this debate for the most part, but at the same time I agree with TSD that if you sit and think about any symptom enough, especially as vague as they can be, then you can rationally see how they all applied to you. I could probably post random symptoms from random diseases here and people could talk themselves into having it.



I posted the response from PocketNinja because I thought it brought up a lot of things I hadn't hear before, not just the autism thing which has been a hot button topic but like you, know that there is no scientific evidence. I thought the other things in the post were very interesting, and while I don't really agree with them, I thought it could be interesting to debate the possibility that they have any validity.



ADD early trauma from circumcision. (I've heard them blaming a lot of things on circumcision but not this yet, And besides, if circumcision is so useless, then why is it so harmful?



ADD from breast feeding in public? (I think when kids are breastfeeding they are focused on one thing and one thing only, do they even have the concept of inappropriateness of which would lead to trauma in this case?)



ADD for Children on Airplanes (As much as I hate kids on planes... haha, and I can see the inner ear trauma, does that consist of a link to emotional or mental trauma consistent with a root cause of ADD?)



ADD higher among children of Atheist? (I just honestly don't know where to go with that one, unsettled minds due to no focus on one belief system? heh?)



ADD due to non-standard or ethnic names?



Unhealthy environments? letting kids sit on bar stools?



There are a lot of claims in there and in fact seem to somehow have legs in this debate.
 

winos5

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Oct 19, 2013
Posts:
7,956
Liked Posts:
829
Location:
Wish You Were Here
And this is why I am a shitty student. Although, I am educated, well spoken - articulate even, and I have no problem getting passing grades and holding down an important job where communication both written and verbal are extremely important.



When I was a kid in the early 80s I was tested for learning disabilities. They found no issues. I was not tested for attention deficit disorder. Makes you wonder why I struggle with school.....hmmmmmmmm.





That's part of the problem, there is no simple dianostic test or tool. It's based largely on subjective information collected from parents, teachers and observation of the child while in the clinic setting and hopefully meeting the criteria set forth in the DSM IV (Manual of Psychiatric Disorders).
 

TSD

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
May 14, 2010
Posts:
5,014
Liked Posts:
4
Location:
Plainfield, IL
Wino, I think I am with you along the lines of this debate for the most part, but at the same time I agree with TSD that if you sit and think about any symptom enough, especially as vague as they can be, then you can rationally see how they all applied to you. I could probably post random symptoms from random diseases here and people could talk themselves into having it.



I posted the response from PocketNinja because I thought it brought up a lot of things I hadn't hear before, not just the autism thing which has been a hot button topic but like you, know that there is no scientific evidence. I thought the other things in the post were very interesting, and while I don't really agree with them, I thought it could be interesting to debate the possibility that they have any validity.



ADD early trauma from circumcision. (I've heard them blaming a lot of things on circumcision but not this yet, And besides, if circumcision is so useless, then why is it so harmful?



First of all again, since ADD is generally sited as being a chemical problem in the brain. Second, as far as a psychological impact, I think it would depend on if circumcision is the norm or not in your region, other than that, clipping a bit of skin off your wang you would have no idea was even there if no one told you cant possibly have any effect, its dumb



ADD from breast feeding in public? (I think when kids are breastfeeding they are focused on one thing and one thing only, do they even have the concept of inappropriateness of which would lead to trauma in this case?)



No. case and point, tribal peoples in south america and africa who walk around titties and dongs hanging out like it aint no thang. Nakedness being inappropriate or not is a social construct a baby has no idea. If your baby does have an idea, its too old to be breast feeding.



ADD for Children on Airplanes (As much as I hate kids on planes... haha, and I can see the inner ear trauma, does that consist of a link to emotional or mental trauma consistent with a root cause of ADD?)



I have no idea, and I reckon neither does this person



ADD higher among children of Atheist? (I just honestly don't know where to go with that one, unsettled minds due to no focus on one belief system? heh?)

First of all as far as focusing on a belief system, I think agnostics would be more appropriate here, as I do focus on a belief system, a lack of one. Second, this person is just making shit up at this point.



ADD due to non-standard or ethnic names?

Um ....yeah.



Unhealthy environments? letting kids sit on bar stools?

I knew sitting on that bar stool ruined my life.



There are a lot of claims in there and in fact seem to somehow have legs in this debate.





Frankly I think the person that wrote these has a social agenda they are trying to push by linking dumb shit to diseases. Sure is easy to get people to stop doing shit if you save it causes a mental disorder, huh? except for when it is completely unsupported by science.



I think the poster doesnt want to see titties in public, hates atheists, hates vaccines, hates drunks, hates body modification and hates people named marion hossa.
 

Tater

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
May 15, 2010
Posts:
13,392
Liked Posts:
5,207
@TSD

Almost all of those symptoms could describe almost anyone at certain times.



Edit: I started typing this and stepped away for about 15 minutes before the previous posts were up.

Disregard.
 

bri

New member
Joined:
May 14, 2010
Posts:
4,797
Liked Posts:
1
From a medical point of view this is the kind medical advice you should avoid IMO.



1) There is no science linking childhood vaccines to autism or ADD/ADHD. The study behind that has been proven to be a fraud. Cooked patients, cooked data and cooked outcomes. The British MD that authored the study has lost his UK medical license. He apparently was funded by (this may shock you) .......





Malpractice lawyers......





to produce a study linking vaccines to autism so they could sue pharmaceutical companies.



2) While circumcision is unecassary, trying to link it to ADD/ADHD is assinine.



3) His comments regarding nursing and religion are just fucking unbelievably stupid and not worth the effort to respond to them.





I know that Jenny McCarthy would disagree with you. Her son has autism and she thinks the vaccines cause it. She also has her son on a special diet, because she believes certain foods contribute to it. She has several books out. Not saying I agree or disagree because I have not had much experience with autistic children, but she has noticed a lot of improvement in him. But she says what works for her child may not work for every child.
 

MassHavoc

Moderator
Staff member
Joined:
May 14, 2010
Posts:
17,855
Liked Posts:
2,554
So I guess my question is, is trauma something tangible that physically changes the way your brain works? I always thought of it as something you remember happening and it alters you, but could a baby be traumatized at a young age and have no recollection of the event, and I don't mean it's hidden deep inside. I mean they literally were too young to even remember the trauma. I just don't see how a child can be traumatized by a snip as a baby unless there is a physical connection somehow? And even then they'd still have to be made cognizant of it somehow through an outside force?
 

TSD

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
May 14, 2010
Posts:
5,014
Liked Posts:
4
Location:
Plainfield, IL
I know that Jenny McCarthy would disagree with you. Her son has autism and she thinks the vaccines cause it. She also has her son on a special diet, because she believes certain foods contribute to it. She has several books out. Not saying I agree or disagree because I have not had much experience with autistic children, but she has noticed a lot of improvement in him. But she says what works for her child may not work for every child.





Amazing what you can believe when you want to believe. Her son is always going to be autistic, theres no changing that and vaccines didnt cause it. The paper that started the entire craze was proven to be a fraud, which means people that think vaccines caused their childs autism are basing that belief on absolutely nothing.





Posting the penn and teller episode on this :

p1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo97VouL0ls

p2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_nYMEO82mo&feature=related
 

BlackHawkPaul

Fartbarf
Donator
Joined:
Sep 28, 2010
Posts:
5,997
Liked Posts:
2,338
Location:
Somewhere in Indiana
Amazing what you can believe when you want to believe. Her son is always going to be autistic, theres no changing that and vaccines didnt cause it. The paper that started the entire craze was proven to be a fraud, which means people that think vaccines caused their childs autism are basing that belief on absolutely nothing.



More or less.

I filmed a lecture about a year ago with a doctor that has a 35 year old autistic son and within that hour shredded apart all of the conspiracy theories surrounding vaccines causing autism.

I also have a friend with an autistic child that swears her child is that way because of vaccines.

Some people will believe the hype no matter how much scientific evidence is in front of them.
 

sth

New member
Joined:
May 14, 2010
Posts:
2,851
Liked Posts:
0
Location:
Billings, Montana
With that vaccine study being shot down I would partially agree with the under diagnosis stuff. But I still think some environmental factors may be involved. Could chemicals in some of the products pregnant women come in contact be a factor. What about pollution from power plants, toxic waste, all of these could cause problems for unborn children.
 

supraman

New member
Joined:
May 16, 2010
Posts:
8,024
Liked Posts:
196
Location:
St.Pete, FL
Honestly I say it is a load of bullshit and it is due to bad parenting. Smack your kids more.
 

BigPete

New member
Joined:
May 15, 2010
Posts:
5,010
Liked Posts:
0
Location:
Belleville, IL
So I guess my question is, is trauma something tangible that physically changes the way your brain works? I always thought of it as something you remember happening and it alters you, but could a baby be traumatized at a young age and have no recollection of the event, and I don't mean it's hidden deep inside. I mean they literally were too young to even remember the trauma. I just don't see how a child can be traumatized by a snip as a baby unless there is a physical connection somehow? And even then they'd still have to be made cognizant of it somehow through an outside force?

I am no expert but the recent acknowledgement of PTSD could lead you to believe that the brain becomes altered based on 'emotionally scarring' events. I just don't think an infant could be so scarred by something like public breast feeding. Watching his argument is like watching someone justify religion..."I can't totally prove that I'm right, but you try and prove me totally wrong then!"
 

winos5

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Oct 19, 2013
Posts:
7,956
Liked Posts:
829
Location:
Wish You Were Here
Families with autistic children tend to be easy targets for quackery because of the emotional impact of the the disorder. Unfortunately, there is no shortage of unethical physicians and/or scam artists driven by greed, willing to take advantage of these families.



As far as trauma and brain function there no doubt that mild traumatic brain injury (concussion) alters function both acutely and cumulatively with boat loasds of scientific studies and evidence to support it. But circumcison? That dolt is thinking with the wrong head.
 

Top