Is Fred really this dumb?

[Shakes]

The main reason not to take him is because he lowers the size of their trade exception. Even if he was a good fit, Hinrich isn't as valuable as a trade exception right now.

 

[Kush77]

I keep hearing about this trade exception. Isn't the trade exception only good for a period of time? They can't hold on to it for a numbers of years correct?

I just don't see why the Raptors would use, like DT said, a 16.5 mil trade option to bring on more salary when they are nowhere contending.

The trade exception is nice if you want to use it. OKC took on Thomas in that deal, and got picks, but they still had to pay Thomas. Not sure how long, but at least a half season. My point is the Raps could just not spend the money period. They are already paying a bunch of guys that can't even get them in the playoffs in the East. I don't see them spending more. They could use the trade X to get a big name player, but they just had one and they couldn't do anything. So who else will be out there?

Maybe the incentive on trading Bosh would just be to get draft picks. I just don't see this trade exception as this huge deal for TOR because what are they gonna use it for? Is Toronto really looking to spend more? That's the question. I don't think they are.

Maybe the Bulls can offer Taj Gibson and some draft picks. But if Noah could guarantee Bosh, I would do it. If Bosh hits the open market, willing to sign outright for 5 years, then you're competing with Miami and NY. If Noah gets you an advantage in the Bosh race, then make it happen. That's what I think.

 

[Shakes]

A trade exception is good for one year from when the trade is made. If the Raptors lose Bosh they're in the mix for a top pick in 2011, if they use the trade exception to help someone dump a player in return for picks they could turn things around quickly through the draft.

 

[Dpauley23]

TheStig wrote:

mlewinth wrote:

I have a sneaking suspicion that we will do something huge on draft day. My guess is we try to continue to shread salary and try to nab one of these FA's via trade. If we can secure a huge talent on draft day and preserve cap space in anyway, we are gold.

You can't trade for any of the fas on draft day. The only way to shed salary on draft day is trading someone to a team with cap space ie deng or kirk getting traded for a second round pick. Which no team is gonna take on that much money. Now you might be able to dump someone like JJ but I don't see the point in that, I'd rather see if he develops.

Yes you can. Bosh, Amare, Wade, Lebron, and Dirk all have player options. So you could trade for them and give them a new contract like Celtics did with KG.

 

[TheStig]

Dpauley23 wrote:

TheStig wrote:

mlewinth wrote:

I have a sneaking suspicion that we will do something huge on draft day. My guess is we try to continue to shread salary and try to nab one of these FA's via trade. If we can secure a huge talent on draft day and preserve cap space in anyway, we are gold.

You can't trade for any of the fas on draft day. The only way to shed salary on draft day is trading someone to a team with cap space ie deng or kirk getting traded for a second round pick. Which no team is gonna take on that much money. Now you might be able to dump someone like JJ but I don't see the point in that, I'd rather see if he develops.

Yes you can. Bosh, Amare, Wade, Lebron, and Dirk all have player options. So you could trade for them and give them a new contract like Celtics did with KG.

Forgot about that, you are right. But we would still have to match salaries since all expirings wouldn't come off the cap and we wouldn't be able to use them. Any deal would have to envolve Deng and/or kirk. Can't see it happening unless Noah is part of the package.

 

[??? ??????]

Kush77 wrote:

I keep hearing about this trade exception. Isn't the trade exception only good for a period of time? They can't hold on to it for a numbers of years correct?

I just don't see why the Raptors would use, like DT said, a 16.5 mil trade option to bring on more salary when they are nowhere contending.

The trade exception is nice if you want to use it. OKC took on Thomas in that deal, and got picks, but they still had to pay Thomas. Not sure how long, but at least a half season. My point is the Raps could just not spend the money period. They are already paying a bunch of guys that can't even get them in the playoffs in the East. I don't see them spending more. They could use the trade X to get a big name player, but they just had one and they couldn't do anything. So who else will be out there?

Maybe the incentive on trading Bosh would just be to get draft picks. I just don't see this trade exception as this huge deal for TOR because what are they gonna use it for? Is Toronto really looking to spend more? That's the question. I don't think they are.

Maybe the Bulls can offer Taj Gibson and some draft picks. But if Noah could guarantee Bosh, I would do it. If Bosh hits the open market, willing to sign outright for 5 years, then you're competing with Miami and NY. If Noah gets you an advantage in the Bosh race, then make it happen. That's what I think.

The trade exception is huge. There haven't been many trade exceptions that would be as big as this Chris Bosh one would in NBA history. That trade exception could be used to dump a player, along with some valuable draft picks. It could also turn into a guy like Al Jefferson or Andrew Bynum, who is on a long contract, that their team wants to get rid of, but who the Raptors might see value in.

 

[TheStig]

Jefferson or Bynum aren't going to make the team better than it was with Bosh. I don't see how thats a win for them. If anything they'd be trying to dump Hedo and Calderon, not bring in another marginable talent on a big deal.

 

[Fred]

Fred wrote:

JeffH1215 wrote:

So Fred, this is how it works, Chris Bosh gets to choose which team he wants to go to, not the Raptors. Now if the team doesn't have cap space then they NEED to do a sign in trade and NEED good assets or the Raptors can say no. If the team does have the cap space, Da Bulls, then he can sign with them without a sign a trade. Then the Bulls can workout a sign in trade with the Raptors to get that 6th year. And since the Raptors just lost Bosh for nothing, they will take anything from the Bulls for the 6th year. The Bulls could offer anything from Deng or next year's first round pick or a 2nd round pick, and the Raptors will take it because if they don't, they get nothing for Bosh. The Bulls don't have to give up Noah, they don't have to give up anything, once Bosh signs with his new team, the Raptors have no more leverage and will take anything for the 6th year.

If you still disagree, go ask Doug, he seems to be the only one of the podcasters that really knows what he is talking about. Mark has been disagreeing with you about this, but his reason being that the Raptors would want Kirk is Special person. No one wants Kirk, for good reasons, I am 100% behind everything you have ever said on the podcast about him.

Go find some previous sign in trades where the player was an unrestricted free agent and you will see what I mean. I sure you remember last year when your hero and man crush, Gordon, was signed by the Pistons, after it was announced they signed him, Doug brought up the fact that we could still try to get a 2nd round pick from the Pistons in a sign in trade so the Ben could get his 6th year on the contract. Of course it never happened, probably because Bulls management didn't want to help Gordon and the Pistons out.

Now this doesn't mean we are getting Bosh, I'm just saying that the only thing that matters, is if Bosh wants to sign here or not. That goes the same for every other free agent.

So please Fred, find a new argument as to why you think we aren't going to land a free agent.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baske...gns-chris-bosh-is-leaving-toronto-this-summer

I really haven't disagreed with anything you've said here. My whole point all along is that other teams have more assets to complete a sign and trade, and many of those teams are just as attractive, if not more so, to Chris Bosh. Of course, my argument has always assumed that Bosh would agree to go to those teams. Why not the Lakers? And the contracts of certain valuable players like Bynum and/or Gasol could be made in a sign and trade with the Lakers. Would Bosh prefer the Lakers over Chicago, even when the Lakers fall short of the title this year? I'd say yes. I don't recall him showing up to watch Rose and Noah against the Cavs.

How about Houston? Darryl Morey, Houston GM: "I actually think they’ll all (elite free agents) go sign-and-trade."

The whole point of my argument is that the vast majority of Bulls fans have been talking for the past year about signing one or more of these guys outright, without moving assets in a sign and trade. It won't happen. And even if we Bosh happens to chose us over another team, Toronto won't take an overpaid Deng or Hirnich in return. Those players aren't assests. Their contracts make them liabilities.

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chi...-gives-raptors-list-of-teams-bulls-on-it.html

We should officially rename this thread Fred, "Yep, Fred was right on again."

 

[Fred]

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/05/report-bosh-could-follow-lebron-to-bulls.html

This is highly, highly, unlikely if LeBron signs with the Bulls. Why would the Raptors take a bad contract in Luol Deng to create arguably the most dominant team since the 72-win Bulls, IN THEIR OWN DIVISION! I think a sign and trade with the Lakers is much more likely.

 

[Shakes]

If they do a sign and trade with the Lakers they'd be taking back Bynum. Who is just as bad a contract as Deng, and even more injury prone.

If the Raptors have a choice I think they'd rather deal with the Knicks in that scenario.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes, Bynum is a better fit, younger, imo better and has a contract half as long as Deng's. Bynum would be a really nice fit at C for them next to Bargaanni while Deng plays the same postion as Hedo. And if he doesn't work out, they just don't pick up his option after next year vs being on the hook for another sf at big money for 4 years. Bynum has more value to the Raptors.

 

[Shakes]

Well I didn't say they'd take back Deng, I said they'd deal with the Knicks. I didn't realise Bynum's last year was a team option, that makes his contract not quite so bad, but I still don't see him being better than getting a trade exception. They didn't make the playoffs with Bosh, swapping him for Bynum they'll just be worse, may as well suck it up and start rebuilding now.

 

[TheStig]

I don't see them really getting much better than Bynum. Given a chance, I think he could really put up some nice numbers for them. A trade exemption and a Zach Randolph/Pau Gasol type, isn't gonna help them that much anyway. At least Bynum will keep them for oblivion, they can't rebuild anyway with Hedo and Calderon's deal on the books. Bynum gets them a decent stop gate that could surprise. I certainly think he is capaable of being more than a 4th option adn double double guy.

 

[Shakes]

Bynum no doubt would put up better numbers on a crap team, no doubt about it. But they really need to tank it up if they lose Bosh. No point sitting in the mid lottery. That's the advantage I see in a trade exception, it lets them tank for a year then look to pick up a player next off season.

 

[TheStig]

Certainly possible but they are not gonna get a good enough player to actually acomplish something productive. Even if they do, they can't ever get another piece and the player leaves after their rookie or second short term deal. For a team like us, its the wise way to go but they can't get guys like we can.

 

[postdiction]

Shakes wrote:

If they do a sign and trade with the Lakers they'd be taking back Bynum. Who is just as bad a contract as Deng, and even more injury prone.

If the Raptors have a choice I think they'd rather deal with the Knicks in that scenario.

I disagree. Granted this is just talking from fans so take it for what its worth but, I believe they rate the packages of each team like so:

1) Bulls - Noah + Deng + picks
2) Lakers - Bynum + picks
3) Bulls - Asik + Gibson + picks (They really like Asik)
4) Miami/NYC.

Nothing NYC provides is valuable to the Raptors. NYC doesn't have picks. NYC's best player Gallo doesn't fit at all with Bargs and the rest of the Raptors.


So would you give up Noah if it meant Rose + LBJ + Bosh?

 

[Shakes]

The fans also don't have to pay Deng or Bynum's salary. I suspect that makes a bit of a difference in their keenness to take them on board. Bynum is also a guy I think the fans will sour on quickly when they're 10 games out of the playoffs and he's injured next year.

As far as the Bulls possibilities go, trade 3 isn't possible unless it's for Bosh alone, if we've signed LeBron we can't make it work. So would I give up Noah and Deng for Bosh? That's a tough call, if we're getting LeBron then Noah is a better fit. A team with a front line of Bosh & Gibson is awfully suspect defensively. Sending away Deng in the deal is a mixed blessing, sure we know he's overpaid, but he's a heck of a lot better than anything we'll be able to sign to replace him.

Bottom line is if Bosh wants to come here then it's up to the GM to play hard ball and make it happen without giving up too much. The details depend on what Toronto is willing to accept.

 

[houheffna]

So would you give up Noah if it meant Rose + LBJ + Bosh?

HELL YEAH! But I don't think it will come to that. Noah won't go because he won't have to...plus, Lebron would come here to play with Noah and Rose if he chooses Chicago. He would probably have those two tops on his list of players he want to stay.

 

[TheStig]

Seriously, you can't have a team made up of Calderon, Hedo and Bargianni. They would win like 10-15 games. You can't lose Bosh and become the laughing stock of the league.

I'd give up Noah and Deng for Bosh in a heartbeat if we signed Bron. Rose, Bron and Bosh will attrack some vets chasing rings to help. We also will have a chance to resign Miller and bring over Asik to help at Center.

 

[houheffna]

Seriously, you can't have a team made up of Calderon, Hedo and Bargianni. They would win like 10-15 games. You can't lose Bosh and become the laughing stock of the league.

I think you exaggerate that scenario, I don't think its a big deal if Toronto loses Bosh and then becomes a lottery team...that is the best way for them to improve is to bottom out...